Tattva-viveka
appearance of Lord Ramacandra and some thoughts
Vivek - March 26, 2007 6:21 pm
Today on the appearance of Lord Ramacandra I wanted to share some thoughts with all of you. Though Krsna is the source of Ramacandra and all other incarnations we can learn a lot of devotion from the Ramayana and intensify our love for Krsna. Like Sridhar Maharaja, I also in the beginning of my life was attracted more towards Ramacandra than Krsna and was brought up on the staple diet of Ramayana. In fact if we don’t understand Krnsa lila and the devotion of his associates through Bhagavatam and Sri Bhagavad Gita, Mahabharat standing alone, shows a lower standard of virtue and sacrifice , than Ramayana which may be due to influence of the yuga cycle.
Now I will cite three devotees from Ramayana which inspire me apart from Lakshaman and Hanuman which everybody is familiar with. They are Bharat, Vibhisana and Angada( the son of Vali who was killed by Lord Rama somewhat controversially).
Bharat the younger brother of Rama shows a standard of sacrifice which is almost impossible to match. When he was offered the kingdom which his mother Kaikeyi had won for him, he rejected his own mother and went to the forest to get Rama back. This is cited by Sridhar Maharaja as an instance where the absolute consideration of devotion to the Lord takes precedence over relative consideration about one’s mother And the love and devotion of Bharat for Rama was so overpowering that Rama had to accept the kingdom offered by Bharat and he asked Bharat to rule on his behalf for 14 years. Bharat took the wooden sandals of Rama and kept it as the royal emblem. And he lived more austere than Rama, living like an ascetic with matted hair and eating just barley soaked in cow urine in Nandigram. Simultaneously he was administering the Kingdom of Ayodhya very well, hence showing unprecedented sacrifice for a king. Nobody in history had ruled a big kingdom living like a hermit. According to me we have to pass through the self sacrifice which Bharat exhibited to enter into self forgetfulness of Vrindavan.
Vibhisana is also an exemplary devotee as he gave up his brother and relatives to go to shelter of Rama. Vibhisana actually is even ridiculed sometimes in India where his example is cited as one of a big traitor who leaked secrets and helped the enemy kill his own brother. According to me this shows his greatness, as without considering the ridicule and disrepute he will get for his actions, he took the shelter of Lord Rama keeping the absolute consideration of devotion to the Lord above any other relative consideration.
And lastly I come to Angada, the son of Vali, who was the brother of Sugriva. Vali was killed by Lord Rama from behind rather controversially (though sufficient sastric reasons are given to justify the action of the Lord), and this incident is taken up by the Gopis too, to tease Krsna about his actions as Ramacandra.. For a common man who is motivated by vengeance it is impossible to forgive the killer of one’s father and accept him as his master and serve him selflessly. This actually shows the greatness of Angada, who went as peace messenger to Ravana and presented the Lord’s case very well to Ravana. Because of his faith in Rama being Supreme Lord, nobody in the court of Rama could move his leg from the ground in this show of strength. He thus won the heart of Lord Rama.
Lord Rama himself by his integrity, humility and quality of forgiveness sets up a great example for a sadhaka on the path of devotion. His humanness which clouds his majesty many times in Ramayana actually gives rise to more intimate dealing with devotees than we see in the devotees of Narayana. Hence Ayodhya is placed above Vaikuntha by Sanatana Gosvami.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur cites Narsingha, Rama and Krsna as the most important forms of the Lord for Gaudiyas using this reference from Jiva Gosvami’s Krsna Sandarbha:-
TEXT 91
The Padma Purana Uttara-khanda explains:
nrsimha-rama-krsnesu
sad-gunya-paripuranam
" The six opulences of wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation are fully present in the forms of Lord Nrsimha, Rama and Krsna."
Although all the forms of the Personality of Godhead fully display these six opulences, these three forms are singled out as especially displaying them. Because the most significant word "nrsimha-rama-krsnesu" is a dvandva-compound and because the most important word is generally placed at the end of a compound-word, we may conclude that because Krsna is placed at the end of this compound, He is the most important of all the forms of the Lord.
I will cite one more verse from the Krsna Sandarbha of Jiva Gosvami about Ramacandra:-
Anuccheda 22
TEXT 1
The Lord's eighteenth incarnation is described in next verse of Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.22):
" In the eighteenth incarnation, the Lord appeared as King Rama. In order to perform some pleasing work for the demigods, He exhibited superhuman powers by controlling the Indian Ocean and then killing the atheist Kink Ravana who was on the other side of the sea."
TEXT 2
The word "naradevatam" in this verse refers to Lord Ramacandra, the descendant of Maharaj Raghu and the word "atah param" indicates that Lord Rama appeared in the eighteenth cycle of four yugas. Lord Rama is directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The chapters of the Skanda Purana known as the Rama-gita recount Lord Rama's revelation of His Universal Form as well as the prayers offered to Him by Brahma, Visnu and Siva.
I am not qualified to write about these pastimes but on this auspicious day I tried to make an attempt to put down my thoughts.
Syamasundara - March 26, 2007 9:47 pm
Nice, thanks. Jaya Rama!
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - March 26, 2007 10:51 pm
In relation to Rama Navami it's also good to think about Sad-bhuja rupa of Lord Caitanya and remembering that Rama, Krsna and Lord Caitanya are one and the same.
Syamasundara - March 26, 2007 11:30 pm
In relation to Rama Navami it's also good to think about Sad-bhuja rupa of Lord Caitanya and remembering that Rama, Krsna and Lord Caitanya are one and the same.
The murti of Ksiracora Gopinatha at Baleswar, near Puri was made by Ramacandra. Once during his exhile he was meditating on his form as Krsna with the gopis, and Sita devi asked him why he was smiling like that; when he said he was thinking of his next avatar, Sita wanted to see that form. In that area there were also the trees that Rama pierced with his arrow.
Margaret Dale - March 27, 2007 9:19 am
The murti of Ksiracora Gopinatha at Baleswar, near Puri was made by Ramacandra. Once during his exhile he was meditating on his form as Krsna with the gopis, and Sita devi asked him why he was smiling like that; when he said he was thinking of his next avatar, Sita wanted to see that form. In that area there were also the trees that Rama pierced with his arrow.
Where is this written? How did Rama reply to Sita?
Syamasundara - March 27, 2007 10:38 am
It's some literature that they sell at the temple of Ksiracora Gopinatha, I'd be glad to give you the source and quotations, but all my books are in San Francisco now. Maybe we can try and google Kshiracora gopinatha and Rama and see what comes out.
Syamasundara - March 27, 2007 10:46 am
So far I've found nothing more authoritative than this: http://indiantraveldestinations.com/states...a-Gopinath.html
Of course Balesvar (Balasor) is only the bus stop, Ksiracora Gopinatha is notoriously at Remuna.
Swami - March 27, 2007 2:01 pm
Here at Audarya we discussed the significance of Murari Gupta, Mahaprabhu's first student. He was a great devotee of Ramacandra. Indeed, Mahaprabhu identified him as his eternal servant, Hanuman.
It is interesting to note that devotees like Murari and Gadadhara were very staunch Vaisnavas. Thus their realization as to the divinity of Nimai Pandita is very significant. Vaisnavas would be reticent in the least to attribute divinity to a jiva, and Vaisnavas like Murari Gupta were deeply absorebed in devotion to their ista devata. Murari could not be budged from his devotion to Rama even in the face of Mahaprabhu's coaxing (testing him). It would be hard to find such a dedicated servant of Rama.
Hanuman's worship is highlighted for its one mindedness (nistha). It is said that while he acknowledges Narayana as God and in this sense as equal to Rama, his only interest is service to Ramacandra. Yet at the same time as Murari he came to acknowledge Mahaprabhu as Bhagavan, and his devotion to Gaura is noteworthy to say the least. Murari's notes on the life of Mahaprabhu are the basis of all other biogrpahical works, and they are based mostly on first hand experience.
There is so much to gain from acquaintence with the parsada's (eternal associates) of Mahaprabhu. We should study their lives, sing thier songs, sing about them, and spend our time going to thier places of birth, etc.
Vivek - March 27, 2007 2:15 pm
Thank you Maharaja for your beautiful realisations. Also some rishis in dandakaranya forest attained gopi dehas after meeting ramacandra. Maybe passing through maryada of rama to the raga of krsna. It is just an analogy I came up with. I thik there was a transcendental fight between new gopis and the eternal gopis of Krsna. Pleasec correct me in case I am incorrect.
Swami - March 27, 2007 3:35 pm
Thank you Maharaja for your beautiful realisations. Also some rishis in dandakaranya forest attained gopi dehas after meeting ramacandra. Maybe passing through maryada of rama to the raga of krsna. It is just an analogy I came up with. I thik there was a transcendental fight between new gopis and the eternal gopis of Krsna. Pleasec correct me in case I am incorrect.
I am not sure what you are referring to here (the fight), but regarding maryada which Hanuman is steeped in, in Gaura lila Mahaprabhu corrected Murari Gupta on Vaisnava decorum. Such sweetness in this! Murari had shown respect first to Gura and then Nitai, but Mahaprabhu corrected him in a dream emphasizing that Nityananda Prabhu was his elder brother in this lila. When he awoke and again met his Lords he first offerend his respects to Nitai and then to Gaura, and Mahaprabhu was very pleased to see this.
Some say that these are Murari's Deities, Gaura Nitai. They are now in Vrindavana.
Vivek - March 27, 2007 4:46 pm
That was wonderful Maharaja. I had read somewhere about the nitya siddha gopis complaining to krsna to allow new recruits in in accord with his promise when he was Ramacandra. And I was just refering to the great transition of rishis from maryada of ramacandra to the raga of krsna lila. There is a lot of sweetness in this pastime.
Swami - March 27, 2007 7:50 pm
That was wonderful Maharaja. I had read somewhere about the nitya siddha gopis complaining to krsna to allow new recruits in in accord with his promise when he was Ramacandra. And I was just refering to the great transition of rishis from maryada of ramacandra to the raga of krsna lila. There is a lot of sweetness in this pastime.
Yes, this is a sweet story. However, it should be clear that the rishis were chanting the 18 syllable Gopal mantra. Then they had the fortune to have saksad darsana of Sri Rama (incredible!). He appeard to them to be the object of thier worship becasue, well, he is the same person (Bhagavan), although not the complete expression of Bhagavan. But their worship was not perfect yet. Thus Rama instructed them to wait and belssed them assuring them that they would attain their desired goal, which they did at the time of Sri Krsna's appearance. Rama reasoned with them that in this life he had taken a vow to marry only one wife (eka patni vrata) and thus he could not fulfill their desire to have him as thier lover/husband. That part is particualrly sweet. Jaya Rama! Jaya Radhe!
Vivek - March 28, 2007 12:48 am
Thanks Maharaja. Does the Gopala mantra only grant liberation or can it even grant entrance into lila without invoking mahamantra. Also generally is it that souls have to take birth in Gokula before going to Goloka?
Swami - March 31, 2007 9:43 pm
Thanks Maharaja. Does the Gopala mantra only grant liberation or can it even grant entrance into lila without invoking mahamantra. Also generally is it that souls have to take birth in Gokula before going to Goloka?
According to Caitanya Caritamrta, Krsna mantra grants liberation (samsara mocana) and Krsna nama brings one to the lotus feet of Krsna (krsna carana). Gopa Kumara of Brihat-bhagavatamrta retired his practice of mantra dhyana, and from Dvaraka he then proceeded to return to Vraja on earth from where he engaged in sankirtana of the names of Krsna most dear to him, names representng Krsna in sakhya rasa, along with lila samranam. Thus he entered the Vraja lila.
First prema comes in svarupa siddhi and then the intensification of prema (pranya, etc) relative to one's rasa in Goloka is developed in the earthly lila in association with Krsna's nitya siddha associates. When this development is complete and Sri Krsna makes his lila unmanifest, one goes with Krsna never to return.
Now liberation via Krsna mantra is such that it reveals one's svarupa, at which time mantra dhyana can be retired. Although in my experience those who have perfected their mantra dhyan do not retire it, perhaps to set and example. In the mantra the divine name is in the dative case and its dhyana thus fosters submission, saranagati. The mahamantra on the other hand is in the vocative. Thus it reaches out to anyone and everyone and in the end ultimately forsters yearning. Submission is reltive to sadhana up to ruci/asakti and yearnng is relative to asakti/bhava up to prema.
Can one attain Vraja prema simply through mantra dhyana of Goapal mantra? It would seem so, and the Dandakaranya sages are perhaps an example. There is no record of them engaging in Krsna sankirtana. However they are examples from another age in which kirtan is not the yuga dharma. Furthermore they did not attain manjari-bhava. They did, however, have to take birth in Krsna's earthly Vraja lila before attaining perfection.
Vivek - March 31, 2007 10:04 pm
According to Caitanya Caritamrta, Krsna mantra grants liberation (samsara mocana) and Krsna nama brings one to the lotus feet of Krsna (krsna carana). Gopa Kumara of Brihat-bhagavatamrta retired his practice of mantra dhyana, and from Dvaraka he then proceeded to return to Vraja on earth from where he engaged in sankirtana of the names of Krsna most dear to him, names representng Krsna in sakhya rasa, along with lila samranam. Thus he entered the Vraja lila.
First prema comes in svarupa siddhi and then the intensification of prema (pranya, etc) relative to one's rasa in Goloka is developed in the earthly lila in association with Krsna's nitya siddha associates. When this development is complete and Sri Krsna makes his lila unmanifest, one goes with Krsna never to return.
Now liberation via Krsna mantra is such that it reveals one's svarupa, at which time mantra dhyana can be retired. Although in my experience those who have perfected their mantra dhyan do not retire it, perhaps to set and example. In the mantra the divine name is in the dative case and its dhyana thus fosters submission, saranagati. The mahamantra on the other hand is in the vocative. Thus it reaches out to anyone and everyone and in the end ultimately forsters yearning. Submission is reltive to sadhana up to ruci/asakti and yearnng is relative to asakti/bhava up to prema.
Can one attain Vraja prema simply through mantra dhyana of Goapal mantra? It would seem so, and the Dandakaranya sages are perhaps an example. There is no record of them engaging in Krsna sankirtana. However they are examples from another age in which kirtan is not the yuga dharma. Furthermore they did not attain manjari-bhava. They did, however, have to take birth in Krsna's earthly Vraja lila before attaining perfection.
Thank you for your clarifying this point. So does everybody have to participate in krsna's earthly lila with nitya siddha associates of the lord before going to Goloka, even though he may be chanting mahamantra ? Manjari-bhava is favoured in Gaudiya Vaishnavism but do some devotees in our lineage also enter gopi bhava like the rishis of dandakaranya( like we have devotees entering into sakhya rasa).
Swami - March 31, 2007 11:39 pm
Thank you for your clarifying this point. So does everybody have to participate in krsna's earthly lila with nitya siddha associates of the lord before going to Goloka, even though he may be chanting mahamantra ? Manjari-bhava is favoured in Gaudiya Vaishnavism but do some devotees in our lineage also enter gopi bhava like the rishis of dandakaranya( like we have devotees entering into sakhya rasa).
Everyone must participate in Krsna's earhly lila in order to inteisify their sthayi-bhava in terms of sneha, pranaya, mana, raga, anuraga, mahabhava. These developments of one's sthayi-bhava differ for different rasas. Manjari-bhava and that of the priyanamra sakha extend up to mahabahva, although the manjari bhava is still further nuanced within mahabhava. These two, sakhya rasa and priyanarma sakhya bhava in particular, which is a mixture (sankula) of madhurya and sakhya bhava (about 30%/70% respectively), and manjari bhava are highlighted in our sampradaya. Both of these are addressed in Ujjvala-nilamani, whereas the other rasas are not. These two are also compatible with one another.
Although there are examples of gopi-bhava (sambhogecchamayi) as opposed to manjari-bhava (tadbhavecchamayi) among Gaura's eternal associates, none of his associates established a sadhana for this sadhya. There are what might be called hetrodox Gaudiya lineages that claim to teach this. I have heard that Krpalu and his follower Prakasananda Saraswati are an example. The Nimbarka sampradya teaches this, but not in parakiya.
Jason - April 2, 2007 3:29 pm
It is interesting to note that devotees like Murari and Gadadhara were very staunch Vaisnavas. Thus their realization as to the divinity of Nimai Pandita is very significant. Vaisnavas would be reticent in the least to attribute divinity to a jiva, and Vaisnavas like Murari Gupta were deeply absorebed in devotion to their ista devata. Murari could not be budged from his devotion to Rama even in the face of Mahaprabhu's coaxing (testing him). It would be hard to find such a dedicated servant of Rama.
Hanuman's worship is highlighted for its one mindedness (nistha). It is said that while he acknowledges Narayana as God and in this sense as equal to Rama, his only interest is service to Ramacandra. Yet at the same time as Murari he came to acknowledge Mahaprabhu as Bhagavan, and his devotion to Gaura is noteworthy to say the least. Murari's notes on the life of Mahaprabhu are the basis of all other biogrpahical works, and they are based mostly on first hand experience.
In regards to what I asked GM on the call yesterday, I'm hoping for a little more clarification. I'm still not sure that I understand:
Murari Gupta was actually Hanuman; fully devoted to Rama, who, GM stated personifies dharma and morality and I assume since he was a prince/king, a lot of aisvarya. Murari Gupta couldn't give up his Lord, but he was integral to Mahaprabhu's mission. I can understand this insofar as he saw the characteristics of Rama present in Mahaprabhu (thanks Prema for explaining that a bit more). However, I thought that all the time Mahaprabhu was exhibiting a mood of devotion that seems like it would have been quite foreign to Murari Gupta? Yes, Lord Caitanya revealed his sad-bhuja form to him, and that would reveal Lord Caitanya is the same Rama that he is worshiping, however, Mahaprabhu is still in the mood of Radha and extols madhurya, which would appear to be a sentiment that Murari Gupta would find "out of sorts" with his devotion to Ramacandra...
Gaurangi-priya Devi - April 3, 2007 4:39 pm
In regards to what I asked GM on the call yesterday, I'm hoping for a little more clarification. I'm still not sure that I understand:
Murari Gupta was actually Hanuman; fully devoted to Rama, who, GM stated personifies dharma and morality and I assume since he was a prince/king, a lot of aisvarya. Murari Gupta couldn't give up his Lord, but he was integral to Mahaprabhu's mission. I can understand this insofar as he saw the characteristics of Rama present in Mahaprabhu (thanks Prema for explaining that a bit more). However, I thought that all the time Mahaprabhu was exhibiting a mood of devotion that seems like it would have been quite foreign to Murari Gupta? Yes, Lord Caitanya revealed his sad-bhuja form to him, and that would reveal Lord Caitanya is the same Rama that he is worshiping, however, Mahaprabhu is still in the mood of Radha and extols madhurya, which would appear to be a sentiment that Murari Gupta would find "out of sorts" with his devotion to Ramacandra...
I've only got a minute, but let me try a bit.
I think that Lord Caitanya, though in the mood of madhurya-rasa as Radha, gives bhakti in all the four mellows. In the C.C. Adi-lila, 4.16, it says:
"The Lord's desire to appear was born from two reasons: He wanted to taste the sweet essence of the mellows of love of God, and He wanted to propagate devotional service in the world on the platform of spontaneous attraction. Thus He is known as supremely jubilant and as the most merciful of all."
In the purport Prabhupada talks about raga-bhakti, and how Krsna is much more attracted to this than vaidhi-bhakti. Then the following verses describe how Krsna enjoys the different mellows of vatsalya, sakhya, and madhurya. So it is my understanding that Mahaprabhu came to give all these mellows, not just madhurya, and showed the path of spontaneous devotion. And He has the broad capacity to reciprocate in which ever of those moods a devotee is in. Murari Gupta, in his sentiment, probably saw Mahaprabhu more from his dasya sentiment, whereas someone like Svarupa Damodara related to Mahaprabhu in his mood of service to Radha, seeing Mahaprabhu as Radha in her separation. It seems not everyone could see or understand that aspect of Mahaprabhu.
I think the important thing in regards to Murari Gupta, is that he is showing us that Lord Caitanya is Krsna Himself, the Avatari, otherwise why else would Mahaprabhu be surounded by all these associates from previous incarnations. It's proof, because Krsna always comes with all His associates.
My kids are freaking out here making it hard to concentrate, but thanks for the chance to help me think about Lord Caitanya today. I hope this makes some sense.