Tattva-viveka
dhoti -vs- lungi
Madhumangala Dasa - April 5, 2007 11:09 pm
This is a really insignificant non-philosophical question, but if you wouldn't mind indulging me for a moment...
Do you know of any restriction about devotees wearing lungis to the temple programs? I personally have never seen devotees in the US wearing anything other then saffron or white dhotis. I know that in South India and Bangladesh (especially in Orissa) there are signs posted outside of some temples that specifically say "No lungis", but I think that has more to do with with elitism and prejudice and keeping the dalits out and turning the temple into a country club, which makes me angry, but I have also seen signs that say "No trousers" posted infront of temples too.
In places like Burma, Thailand and Laos, even Sri Lanka, colorful fabrics are preferred, and plain white cloth isn't as desirable, so why would that would be any different here?
-Madhu
Brahma Dasa - April 6, 2007 2:43 am
Clean white dhotis are formal wear whereas lungis are considered lower-class working attire. Something like the difference between wearing a three piece suit as opposed to jeans and a sweatshirt.
Syamasundara - April 6, 2007 11:28 am
Ok this time I am a little more qualified to intervene. I am not a fashion victim (even so, I wouldn't have that kind of money), but I do have a strong sense of aesthetics, so while touring all over India I naturally noticed and learned the various ways of putting on a sari and a dhoti, or whatever else.
I think the matter goes beyond fashion, though. You asked about restrictions. The Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu says that colors like red or blue (corresponding to the famous lower modes of nature) should not be worn in the temple, while white and yellow are preferred. It is also written that grhasthas should wear white clothes (but colorful flowers on the ear or around the neck if you want!). However, restrictions are really relative. In the Dvarakadhisa temple the pujari was wearing an electric blue dhoti with golden borders and wrapped up backward and fancifully. At Nava Jiyada Nrsimha-ksetra in Germany the Pujaris also wear colorful silk dhotis during the pujas, so did the pujaris in Mayapur for the installation of the Pancatattva. The concept of bright colors for auspiciousness is quite radicated in the Vedic culture.
If you think in terms of sadhana, things change a bit. The saffron color of renunciates is not casual. As you know, colors are electromagnetic waves that vibrate at different frequencies, just like everything else gross or subtle in this world vibrates. Some of these color vibrations are assonant with certain objects or moods, and some are dissonant. The saffron color corresponds to a calm and steady mind and it is said to be conducive to a life of spiritual discipline. Garhasthya is probably the phase of life that is least evoking abnegation and renunciation, but grhasthas are required nonetheless to be pure in their handling the world and its objects, hence the white color. The attire of women is somewhat of a different story, due to the fact that traditionally women are not required to perform austerity. In the Vedic culture women are emphasized as bearers of life, auspiciousness, prosperity, naturally inclined to feed, serve, and sacrifice, whereas men are those that incarnate the dominating and exploiting principle, hence the stricter discipline. However, a few women do have an ascetic inclination, and they also tend to wear solid, non ostensive colors (think of Sita while in exile, with plain clothes and little daisies in her earring holes, or Vrndaranya!).
Some of the pandas of Jagannatha do wear some reddish lungis (the kind I used to take a shower!) but you know Indians, in the same Jagannatha Puri, at Tota Gopinatha mandir, you find a murti of Balarama and his two wives that is nothing but a tribhanga form of Krsna with a bugle in his hands instead of the flute! So maybe they read they need to wear reddish (especially now I guess, that they are under Sankara) they see this red cloth and they wear it, however, you should learn there is another difference between dhotis and lungis, besides the fabric.
A civilized man according to Vedic standards, should always cover his loins. Once I took a bath at Manasi-ganga in Puri with another devotee. He was wearing some saffron cloth but as a lungi; after the bath we went to a nearby shrine on the gath and the brahmanas stopped him and they took whatever extra cloth from that lungi and tucked it between his legs and behind him. He looked like in a diaper, but they were all pleased. In retrospect, I can tell that a lungi counterlight is as good as transparent. In Bengala, instead of making the "accordion" with the front flap, they wrap it around the hips.
All these are just cultural considerations, you can wear a pukka bengali dhoti and please the minds of the Bengalis, or like they do in the South, and please them, or you could go a step further and above, and have an attire that expresses a desire to control your senses, and all those things that are conducive to bhakti, and in that case please Krsna's mind.
I remember when I joined the ashram I had this fancy Oriya kurta, dhotis with thick borders; on the day of my initiation I looked like a Christmas tree: harinama cadar, another around my waist, tulasi around neck and arms, even some small rudraksas, oh, and tilak marks everywhere! It was all sanctioned and auspicious, but still...
Years later, Vicaru noticed how "visible" I was at first, while now I was wearing a rough thermal shirt, with cut off and shredded sleeves. I hadn't even realized, because my sense of aesthetics hadn't been frustrated, but rather transferred from my body to the bhoga plate or the deities.
Bhrigu - April 6, 2007 1:30 pm
I personally think that when we go to the temple, we should try to dress as sadhakas. The Gaudiya Vaishnava scriptures and tradition prescribes white (for men). Bhaktisiddhanta introduced saffron for renunciants, and there are some other exceptions as well within the tradition (e.g. professional kirtaniyas, goswamis in Vrindavana, etc), but I should think that sticking to a white dhoti, kurta and uttariya is the safest. After all, we dress in these outlandish clothes to please guru and Krishna, so why shouldn't we follow what they say about the colour as well?
Madhumangala Dasa - April 6, 2007 9:25 pm
All Glories to Kakkhati, Radharani's old pet monkey!
All Glories to Rangini, Radharani's pet doe!
All Glories to Carucnadrika, Radharani's pet cakori bird!
Thanks for the replies. I just don't understand why such trivial things are even an issue, in these days with pujaris covered in tattoos and piercing and punkrock green hair matajis, does it really matter if we wear white dhoti or tie-dyed lungis.
Years ago I wore an exquisite raw silk Egyptian jalabiyah to Krsna Janmastami, it was the most brilliant shade of indigo with chartreuse trim, full
sleeves, gold embroidery with colorful peacocks throughout. The temple president pulled me outside and informed me that my outfit was unbefitting the mood of a devotee, that it was too elaborate and some of the other devotees complained because they felt that I was trying to outdress Krsna and that I was being offensive for dressing in "Muslim attire" (whatever that means) on such an auspicious day. He offered me one of his dhotis and kurtas to put on, which naturally I declined. He eventually gave up trying to pressure me into changing and there was gossip and talking behind my back all night, which is a shame being that it was Krsna's birthday. I would just hate that my choosing to wear color would invoke a similar reaction, but there is a possibility that it will... we'll see.
I appreciate your responses. Hare Krsna!
-Madhu
Syamasundara - April 6, 2007 10:17 pm
You don't know at what point in their lives they got those tattoos, the green hair is a little more unusual, especially if it's a devotee that's living in an ashram, but I agree with you that sometimes, like on Sundays, they allow householders to go on the altar, and I am pretty sure some of those ladies have dyed hair, maybe brown, blond or dark, and why should that be any less of a sign of vanity than green hair, just because it's more usual?
I had teal and purple hair myself at one point, but not as a brahmacari.
At any rate, I wouldn't advise you to take certain temple realities, such as Iskcon Berkeley, or whatever you may have experienced, as your ultimate model.
When we talk of sadhakas and bhaktas, we think of, and refer to the Goswamis of Vrndavana, or our Gurudeva.
Another fact is that the body reflects the mind, so do our attire, language, etc.
It is unfortunate that the devotees got distracted from Krsna's birthday by what you were wearing, but let me exaggerate the opposite situation. Suppose there are pujaris with piercings and tattoos, matajis with green hair, you with peacock fabric, somebody else with some other thing... that is exactly a picture of the material world, where everyone wants to be the center of a circumference that doesn't exist, because nobody wants to be part of it. On the other hand, we have the society of sadhakas who work and behave like the synchronized and organized photons in a laser beam, all pointing towards the real center, which is Krsna.
As Sridhara Maharaja beautifully puts it, transcendence is where the center (Krsna) is everywhere, and the circumference nowhere, which reflects the self-forgetfulness of the gopis. You don't even think "I love Krsna" but just "Krsna."
If you search in the Sangas, GM gives a lot of examples of how, in order to think freely, we have to stop thinking, in order to be free, we have to curb what we think our natural tendencies are.
I'd like it to be clear that I am not saying you are wrong and I am right; what I am is grateful for being given a chance to dwell on the scripture and recur to mother Veda.
Many examples come to mind. At first I thought of Pundarika Vidyanidhi, who looked so self-absorbed and materialistic, but was a great Vaisnava in essence, but see, you have to get to that stage first. Until we get the proof that someone is very advanced, we respect them nonetheless, but don't treat them as elevated souls necessarily.
Mahaprabhu told Sanatana Goswami to take a bath, shave his beard and wear Vaisnava clothes, not because it's particularly bad to be a Muslim or be taken as one, but because there is glory in the Vaisnava attire, it's a loud statement of our ideal, and a possible cause of preaching, both of which make us dearer to Krsna.
Gauranga Mahaprabhu is our example: inside he was an austere sannyasi, with shaved head, but from within him outpoored symptoms that would make you realize he feels like a colorful cowherd girl in love.
The problem is to get to that point. Until then, we'd better follow the advice of those who care to instruct us, even if we are right, or they are wrong. If we keep sincere and humble, justice will be done in due course, and our humility and sincerity will have made us advance that much more.
If you know of Radharani's pets, you may have also read that in Goloka all the gopas and gopis have different complexions and wear different colors, corresponding to their bhavas, so play your cards right at this point, and before you know you will have a beautiful and colorful body that no one will say anything about.
(I love colors, too)
Jason - April 6, 2007 10:52 pm
At any rate, I wouldn't advise you to take certain temple realities, such as Iskcon Berkeley, or whatever you may have experienced, as your ultimate model.
Yeah...ain't that the truth. White is nice (coming from someone who never wears a dhoti)...simple...no show-boating. It's a temple, not a runway. All that flare is a bit gaudy don't you think? 
Jason - April 6, 2007 10:55 pm
I remember when I joined the ashram I had this fancy Oriya kurta, dhotis with thick borders; on the day of my initiation I looked like a Christmas tree: harinama cadar, another around my waist, tulasi around neck and arms, even some small rudraksas, oh, and tilak marks everywhere! It was all sanctioned and auspicious, but still....
Oh my! Do you have photos? I will pay for them!
Syamasundara - April 6, 2007 11:01 pm
Oh my! Do you have photos? I will pay for them!
Well, I will be at Audarya on my way to Portland on Nrsimha caturdasi, and I will have my belongings that I left in SF years ago, including my initiation pictures, so.... how much can you pay?
Oh, I was also wearing those silken prasada malas from Nrsimha of Mayapur Candrodaya, and kavacas... after my initiation GM said "Get him to dress the deities!!" No, he said it more nicely, and I always tried to do my best.
Jason - April 6, 2007 11:11 pm
Syamasundara, it will be nice to meet you soon at Audarya. And to you and Madhu, I'm sure you're awesome people, but the visuals I was getting would have made for a great episode of "America's Next Top Model (devotee)".
Seriously though, I really think it looks great to see a room of devotees in white and saffron. Tasteful saris are nice too, but to be over-the-top is a little distracting. I don't want to feel like I'm in a bad Bollywood movie.
Swami - April 7, 2007 2:07 am
White indicates sattva and the door to the path beyond the small world of the mind, in which one thinks, "I am a very colorful person," when one really knows very little about oneself.
In many Hindu based sects popular in the West both men and women wear white when going to the temple or for meditation, etc., as if to say "for the moment, at least, let me leave the world of the mind behind as I enter into spritual practice."
I ask my students in the least to keep white bead bags so as not to bring the world of the mind into one's japa. It would be fine with me if initiated men and women both wore white to the temple programs, unless I have given them saffron. In the mind's of those who really matter white is hardly boring, and the apparent multicolor world is chewing the chewed. Wearing white leads to the actual multicolor reality, in which difference does not compromise unity.