Tattva-viveka
mushroom and onion.
Ludwig - November 6, 2007 2:55 pm
haribol !
im been wondering all about the thing why we dont have onions or mushrooms in our prasadam?
ive heard several answers but i would be happy to get an answer from here 
radhe
Jiva-daya Dasa - November 6, 2007 5:00 pm
haribol !im been wondering all about the thing why we dont have onions or mushrooms in our prasadam?
ive heard several answers but i would be happy to get an answer from here
radhe
I have asked a lot of questions on this topic. I have come to understand that these are details, not principles, and as such, perhaps not always so extremely important; especially if we understand that Krsna eats «bhakti», not food.
In short:
Mushrooms are tamasic (impure) and onions are considered rajasic (don't help you to control your senses)
Nanda-tanuja prabhu posted this helpful citation a while back:
Manu-samhita:
5.5. Garlic, leeks and onions, mushrooms and (all plants), springing from impure (substances), are unfit to be eaten by twice-born men.
5.19. A twice-born man who knowingly eats mushrooms, a village-pig, garlic, a village-cock, onions, or leeks, will become an outcast.
In my own humble experience so far, I have seen that it is very crucial for one to be fixed but flexible in order to make any spiritual progress. If we worry too much about the details and rituals, we perhaps lose sight of the what we should focus on and what the details aim to foster in the first place.
I personally don't like mushrooms and don't eat onions or garlic. However, I will say that garlic has medicinal uses, as do some mushrooms, and perhaps could be treated as medicine. Do we offer medicine like we offer food? With love, devotion, and surrender? Why not.
Hope that something here helps in some way.
Syamasundara - November 6, 2007 7:25 pm
I don't like onion, garlic and mushrooms myself. South Indian Vaishnavas use onions, says GM. Living out here, without a real kitchen I always have to eat outside, so I'm lucky if I manage to avoid meat, fish, eggs, gelatin, etc.
However, if someone has deities, and a regular puja in their home, the idea should be to cook what the deities like, not what we like or need as a medicine after it's offered. The most extreme example is a Vaisnava offering pan or bhang to the deities for their pleasure, that although prasada once offered, are still intoxicants, so they will get discarded, or at least not consumed by the Vaisnavas.
Garlic does have great properties that strengthen the immune system, but so do so many other substances, like echinacea, apple cider vinegar, etc. I don't really see the point of offering medicinal plants to Krsna, though with devotion, if who is sick is us; the deities are not prasada dispensers.
Unless the deities clearly manifest the lila of being sick, which is not an everyday thing, we should take our medicines, which is usually not something we enjoy, even if they are alcohol-based, or garlic capsules, and keep offering the best foodstuffs to the deity.
The best would be to offer such good and healthy preparations, that we don't even get sick ever, materially or spiritually.
Vamsidhari Dasa - November 9, 2007 6:13 am
If anyone would like to offer me some mushrooms with onions I will gladly accept.
Bhrigu - November 9, 2007 10:11 am
It is also important to realise that all rules do not "make sense". We follow them because Krishna wants us to. Not eating onion, garlic and mushrooms does mean some practical difficulties, but we should try to embrace such in the service of Krishna. This whole rule can be seen in a positive light: it makes it hard for devotees to eat out, and thus discourages us from eating food that is not prasadam. I am sure that everyone who has had the experience of having to eat non-prasadam for a few days will know what a difference it makes in our consciousness.
Brahma Dasa - November 9, 2007 4:38 pm
Stop Making Sense----Good answer Bhrigu!
Vaisnavas offer and eat many foods that could fit thier own discription of 'rajarsic'. And carrots are supposed to be tamasic--but Srila Prabhupada ate them.
So to me Bhrigu's answer is the only one that actually makes sense.
Jiva-daya Dasa - November 9, 2007 4:41 pm
I think I understand that the original question is focusing on actual food offered to deities (prasadam) but what about «offering» everything in our lives to Krsna. I see the point that some things (duties) may not be agreeable to us but that we should do them anyway in order to progress. But what about people who live in places that do not have such things (such as fresh vegetables and fruit year round? «According to time and circumstance» is what we all hear from Guru Maharaja everyday (cd's). Does this not apply to our «offering» to the best of our ability? Or are we focusing on more of an ideal and strict procedure. If so, it makes neophytes like myself struggle with a sort of «all or nothing» choice. In that case, I am in a hopeless position for now (I know, by my own decision). I am just a little confused by hearing on one side, «chant, even if you feel hypocritcal, you have to start somewhere, you're on the right track» as well as some of the very generous and encouraging quotes from Srila Prabhupada, contrasted with «offer exactly this, in this exact way or it doesn't count». Once again, I understand the need for regulation and the recommendations set forth by vaisnavas but sometimes discussions about what I see as detail-oriented topics such as this - end up being discouraging. My problem? My weak faith? Maybe so, but as you can see, I feel free to seek your help on this forum. Thanks to those of you reach out.
Babhru Das - November 9, 2007 7:21 pm
«According to time and circumstance» is what we all hear from Guru Maharaja everyday (cd's). Does this not apply to our «offering» I am just a little confused by hearing on one side, «chant, even if you feel hypocritcal, you have to start somewhere, you're on the right track» as well as some of the very generous and encouraging quotes from Srila Prabhupada, contrasted with «offer exactly this, in this exact way or it doesn't count». Once again, I understand the need for regulation and the recommendations set forth by vaisnavas but sometimes discussions about what I see as detail-oriented topics such as this - end up being discouraging.
I don't think there's necessarily a dichotomy here; there's an ideal, I suppose, and the reality of where each of us is in our own progress. GM has said that if you don't like halavah (which is just unimaginable to me--this must be someone who, as gurukula kids used to say, doesn't like Prabhupada and Krishna!), but you love pizza, offer pizza to Krishna with all the love you can muster. If your home Deities are Gaura-Nitai, I don't think most of the things being discussed here will create havoc in your spiritual life. If you worship Radha-Krishna, then a higher standard may be in order. In the meantime, we should all have a good sense of where we are and progress from there with confidence.
Vamsidhari Dasa - November 11, 2007 9:04 pm
I like when topics like this come up and we struggle to understand what is about the rules and what is unruly. I can certainly understand how difficult it is to see the world in terms of all or nothing and how hard it is for someone just getting acquainted us to understand what the big deal is with these other vegetables we are not eating.
It is so unappetizing to hear the discussion in terms of rules. Rules are for us they are not who we are supposed to be. I see them as guideposts or maps to the spiritual life but not the life itself. Often times it seems that devotees confuse maps for the land they are suppose to navigate. At the same time there are some people who cannot travel without maps and find them essential and other who are more comfortable traveling with abandon. The best thing about getting lost is that you can get found again. The worst thing about requiring maps is that you never get to see and enjoy the landscapes.
So, when it comes to being in the real world I do not how I could ever avoid eating garlic and onions because I have to have most of my meals out. For that reason I do not feel that I can tell people what to do. I would love to be able to offer 3 meals to the Deities and cook for them all the time but I just cannot. Ideals are there to be aspired for. Diet is a part of our life but it is done with particular frame of mind.
There is no mercy, compassion, understanding, or love in the rigid mind. Flexibility of minds is a developmental achievement because it requires us to tolerate the opposites and paradoxes we encounter every day.
GM teaches us to be flexible and live in the real world without being hypocrites.
Jiva daya dasa I do not think that what you are saying is your problem or an expression of your weak faith. I think that it is general discontent and discomfort with black and white way of seeing things that leads to stagnation. We all know what "the rules" are. Some of them make sense and some do not. It would be sad to confuse rule following for of our spiritual practice, which as GM says is about love and in love there are no rules. This does not mean that we can just do what ever. But if the rule prevents you from tasting the nectar of Magaprabhu's mercy then it is the rule that should be reconsidered. I am not the rule maker (although I could be considered rule-breaker), but I know someone who is. So do not get discouraged by these discussions. When I fists met GM, he told me "WE are not about the rules" so there you go. I hope that you can concentrate on what is wroth while and attractive to you about our group and know that there is certainly a place for you here.
Syamasundara - November 12, 2007 8:36 am
Bhrigu - November 12, 2007 12:02 pm
I don't see it as much as an "all or nothing"-question as Vamsi Prabhu does. Few of us can cook three times a day for our Deities, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't aspire to eating only prasadam. It's like chanting 64 rounds. If we can't do that, should we then not chant at all?
An example: I am at present in the fortunate situation of working from my home, so I cook (once!) daily for Sri Sadbhuja and eat that for lunch and dinner (I don't eat breakfast). Sometimes I eat storebought candy, potato chips, icecream or the like. Perhaps twice a month or so I eat non-prasadam food at restaurants, friends etc. But it hasn't always been like that. When I worked as a teacher in a primary school I would daily eat my lunch in the school (eating with the kids was part of the job). I told them that I am a strict vegetarian, so no meat, fish or eggs, and that I am allergic to onions and garlic. By Krishna's arrangement, there was another teacher there who actually was allergic to onions, so that meant little extra work for the kitchen crew. I have found the white lie about allergy to be useful, and always use it when eating out, and have never had any problems with it. Sure, it does limit the dishes I can chose, but there is always something on the menu without onion & garlic, or if there isn't, they'll make something special for me.
Vamsidhari Dasa - November 12, 2007 5:48 pm
What can I say Bhrigu prabhu, you are the most fortunate servant of the Lord. I think that is also essential to us to have you so that you can share your intimate acquaintance with the scriptural injunctions and breadth of understanding with us. However, you are misunderstanding my point I was actually advocatin g against all or nothi ng thinking that is often present when we discuss rules. Not that we should abandoin rules and regs.
Jiva-daya Dasa - November 13, 2007 12:23 am
I don't think there's necessarily a dichotomy here; there's an ideal, I suppose, and the reality of where each of us is in our own progress. GM has said that if you don't like halavah (which is just unimaginable to me--this must be someone who, as gurukula kids used to say, doesn't like Prabhupada and Krishna!), but you love pizza, offer pizza to Krishna with all the love you can muster. If your home Deities are Gaura-Nitai, I don't think most of the things being discussed here will create havoc in your spiritual life. If you worship Radha-Krishna, then a higher standard may be in order. In the meantime, we should all have a good sense of where we are and progress from there with confidence.
Thanks to all for feedback - I always admire the vigorous enthusiasm experienced on this forum and feel honored to be here. Babhru Prabhu has said «progress from there with confidence». This confidence is illusive but is something that I know will come with time and practice, thanks for reminding me. I try remind myself consistently that «real beauty is knowing one's place and the acting accordingly».
Brian Peterson - April 29, 2008 2:14 am
Interesting topic. I've always been curious about this issue as well.
On another note, I've heard many devotees say that one should not eat in restaurants because the food has not been sacrificed to Krsna. What are your feelings about this issue?
Vamsidhari Dasa - April 29, 2008 1:49 pm
Interesting topic. I've always been curious about this issue as well.
On another note, I've heard many devotees say that one should not eat in restaurants because the food has not been sacrificed to Krsna. What are your feelings about this issue?
Oh, well in reality if i did not eat out would not eat at all. I only get to offer breakfast and cook on the weekends but during the week there is no other way. I think that like withe everything else one should be sensible about these things and be practical. Wow, if you can live and work and do all the rest and then only eat food that is offered all the time: HOW FORTUNATE you are.
Prema-bhakti - April 29, 2008 4:10 pm
I feel issues like these are very practical time and place decisions. No one on this thread if given the choice to eat prasada or a meal with onions and garlic would choose the latter. I like to look at the big picture. If we are functioning in this world for a higher purpose other than sense gratification and we need to maintain ourselves and we support GM's mission with our earnings and he is pleased then that supercedes these kinds of discrepancies. Life is full of compromises yet if done in the mood of seva they become auspicious. Not to say we shouldn't do our best in these instances but we have to be practical and serve the higher purpose.
BSST and SP showed examples where they were willing to have disciples eat grains on Ekadasi or even serve meat for preaching. Of course, they were speaking to surrendered devotees in the mission but nevertheless if we live our lives in that mood then I do believe such deviations are not a huge factor in our progressive bhakti.
Shreekrishna - April 29, 2008 6:59 pm
I have been on both sides of this issue... I was a former garlic, onion and mushroom consumer and I wouldn't have been able to imagine life without it. However, later having stopped eating these items for the past 5 years, when I happen to eat something with these in it, I actually don't like it. The taste itself is unappealing, the smell too pungent (and resembling meat, at least to me- I was raised pure vegetarian), not to mention, I actually feel "moded out" for at least a day after. And then there's the body odor of those who eat it... is enough to convince me I don't want to smell like that!
After having such an experience several times, I really have lost any attachment to these three items. If one has to eat out by circumstance, it is almost unavoidable to find something prepared that doesn't have these as ingredients (makes eating out less appealing)...
{Interesting that Swami thinks south Indian Vaishnavas eat onions. At least from what I know Sri Vaishnavas do not (observant ones at least). They even shun salt on ekadasi! That being said, Sri Vaishnavas are just one of the many varieties of vaishnavas in south India. Nowadays, hardly anybody observes ekadasi strictly, esp in caste brahmana families.}
Swami - May 1, 2008 1:39 pm
It is worth nothing that while onions and garlic are not recommended foods for Vaisnavas many Vaisnavas use them medicinally. However, as I recall, eating them has been compared in some Purana with eating cow's flesh, which to me makes even medicinal use objectionable. Thakura Bhaktivinode writes about Purnaic bias, and in particular with regard to dietary do's and don't's. Although I have been unable to find it recently, I recall that he wrote somewhere that dietary concerns are not the essence of religion. Seems obvious but . . .
Onions, garlic, and mushrooms are not offerable, but if we eat them in the course of living for spiritual progress (as a sadhaka should be living) due to circumstance, our bhakti will not be harmed. Prabhupada allowed his students who preached in India to eat at restaurants when they had no facility to cook for themselves. When we find ourselves in similar circumstances we should pray that the energy we receive from our meal may be used for the pleasure of Bhagavan. Such meals eaten in this consciousness do not have the potential for the kind of miraculous results derived from honoring maha prasada but they are relatively harmless.
Shreekrishna - May 1, 2008 2:49 pm
Another thing I have heard about onions and garlic, is that consuming them is not sinful. They are just in the mode of ignorance, and this can be a side-effect on the consumer.
Swami aptly pointed out that the motivation behind consuming food is crucial. Even when following dietary restrictions, one can be full of pride, and devoid of any devotion for the Supreme Lord. Yet, one can eat what is available, with the right mindset, and remain fixed in devotional service...