Tattva-viveka
symbolic
Ludwig - December 11, 2007 9:02 pm
haribol my friends.
First i would like to thank for the answers in my last topic about mushroom and onion 
My girlfriend has a question about the symbolic history, why do krishna and other demi gods have 4 armes in different paintings?
I know that krishna was borned by devaki and first of all appeared as four-armed Narayana.
Hope to get a good answer 
radhe radhe!
Zvonimir Tosic - December 11, 2007 10:45 pm
haribol my friends.First i would like to thank for the answers in my last topic about mushroom and onion
My girlfriend has a question about the symbolic history, why do krishna and other demi gods have 4 armes in different paintings?
I know that krishna was borned by devaki and first of all appeared as four-armed Narayana.
Hope to get a good answer
radhe radhe!
Don't know if they're good, but two charming answers come into my mind.
One is that Krishna's parents can comprehend their newborn baby is very dear and very, very special. Being "just" a two armed God, Krishna looks so much like other children. His Godhood is suppressed, hidden. Long, long ago, in their previous life, his parents wanted a God to be born as their child. So Krishna has fulfilled their sincere wish and proved he's the God by showing he's that same Narayana to whom they had prayed to.
This in turn constitutes our second answer. That's why so many believe Krishna is just a Visnu avatara, because he appears so much human-like, less opulent than splendrous Narayana. So to tell people he's God, a Visnu avatara, some artist show him as Visnu with four arms, with always same clothes and decorations. For example, many believe Krishna's four-armed form in Bhagavad-gita's universal form section (Bhagavad-gita 11.46-51) is the moment of revelation, when Krishna reveals himself as a "true God" -- Narayana. Gaudiya Vaisnavas, on the other hand, are always charmingly stubborn and don't agree with that. Why? They observe the reality in a completely different way; they're not attracted to the obvious conclusions. They simply love mind-boggling challenges, answers that turn everything upside-down
I love that aspect of Godhead, his desire to hide himself and not reveal his true nature. His very name suggests that too -- Krishna, who is blackish, dark, hidden, not as obvious. A true light is needed in order to see him, a streak of lightning in the dark and cloudy, rainy night that reveals him leaned on a tree in an enchanted forest.
I'm sure others can add more answers and explanations.
Ys, Z.
Syamasundara - December 12, 2007 6:07 am
It's an interesting question. Sometimes these divine personalities appear in a certain way that seems too convenient from a human, iconographic point of view. You could paint any stylized Vedic woman, but if you put lotuses and money in her hands it's Laksmi, if you put Siva's and Visnu's symbols it's Durga, etc. Everything seems so static, these people seem to never change dress of jewels or "symbols", these symbols all mean something... to us, though. Why do they "have" to carry them all the time?
Think of Visnu's symbols: according to their order, we can recognize if it's Acyuta, Vasudeva, Kesava, Narayana, Govinda, Vamana, etc.,
Still, it's not just iconography. The number of arms goes with everything else: Indra is covered with eyes, Siva has 5 heads, Brahma 4, Ganesa has an elephant head.
A body is just a condensation of various things: karma, desires, feelings. But a body doesn't have to be made of flesh and bones.
Matter is not as static and solid as we think. According to quantum physics, every electron is constantly being and not being, or rather, shifting from our dimension and another beyond matter, but actually it's nowhere. The moment you, conscious being, want to observe the electron, that causes it to be there, but all we see is just an infinite number of "positions" around the nucleus of an atom where the electron could be at any given time. Consciousness creates matter or conditions it to be a certain way rather than another. This is what our solid world is based on: vibration (sound), and light, at various levels of condensation. The level of our experience is probably the thickest.
Any psychic will see the different colors and shapes of your aura according to your bhava: whether you are depressed, overyjoyed, absorbed, etc. So the bodies of these demigods are of a subtler nature, not necessarily like ghosts, but of a higher quality, and they correspond to their duty of function, to their desires, etc.
One explanation I gave, which sounds plausible to me, is that just like our wedding ring means faithfulness, commitment, etc, but we just wear it without even thinking about it, similarly Visnu's symbols do stand for the inexorability of time (cakra), punishment of demoniac nature (gada), etc and he does have a hand to hold each, but it's perfectly normal from his point of view. Not only that, they are persons, he sometimes talks with them. Everything is conscious: his shoes, flute, cakra, resting place, they are all expressions of sandhini sakti.
The world is always broader than we perceive it to be from our standpoint. Here we are wondering why Rama is green like an emerald, Krsna is blue like a monsoon cloud, Mahaprabhu is golden, and all the gopas and gopis have different complexions, while our neighbor is probably still dealing with the fact that there are humans in his planet and now even in his town that have a darker skin than his.
Another point regarding arms increasing and decreasing is this: think about those lizards that, when they feel in danger, stand on their rear legs, expand a collar of skin and start running at you, or any such similar behavior: peacocks' tails, etc. Similarly Krsna, according to his bhava, can have two, four, eight, ten arms, like in certain battles.
Two are the arms of madhurya, carrying a flute; four or more are the arms of aisvarya, carrying divine symbols. Then you have the arms of audarya, two, but empty, and raised.
Bahu tule, nece nece, Hari Bol! Hari Bol!
Two empty hands that can fill and fulfill every empty atom of this world, and our hearts.