Tattva-viveka
pretty surprising news from vrindavan about a devotee
Vivek - February 14, 2008 5:37 pm
I just happened to see the new about a devotee girl being raped and shot dead in vrindavan. pretty sad
Syamasundara - February 14, 2008 6:08 pm
OK, I need an Audarya Daily after that. Let's hope she dies well.
Gaurangi-priya Devi - February 14, 2008 6:25 pm
OK, I need an Audarya Daily after that. Let's hope she dies well.
She died very auspiciously, in Vrindavana surrounded by kirtan. It's amazing that she lived that long with being shot three times in the head. In once sense I couldn't think of a more horrible way to go, and I found myself asking Krsna why he couldn't have taken her some other way, any other way. But, she did pass away in a wonderful way, with thousands of Vaisnavas worldwide thinking and praying for her, and with kirtan going on continously. The intricacies of karma cannot be understood, and the will of the Lord is also difficult to understand.
On a side note, we were talking here about how Vrindavana shouldn't be a place for families. It should be a place for renunciates and for increasing one's bhajan. Unfortunately Uttar Pradesh hosts the lowest of Indian's men, and protection for woman is not a top priority.
Vivek - February 14, 2008 6:37 pm
Even the condition of widows there is pretty bad although some devotees actually justify this condition as it keeps loose women under control unlike the west. I don't know how people can think like that. Yes if people want to go for bhajan to vrindavan it is good but to be forced into that existence sometimes even at the age of 14-15, is not great.
Syamasundara - February 14, 2008 8:12 pm
Women under control eh? Unfortunately it's 90% money consideration and superstition.
Bhrigu - February 16, 2008 4:21 am
Coincidentally, I was present at Pani Ghat here in Vrindavan just after her cremation. One elderly swami had passed away (Bharati Maharaj), and the sannyasis and brahmacaris from the math where I am staying performed his last rites. When we came there she had already been cremated, but her friends and relatives stayed on for the second cremation. They seemed peaceful and happy that she had finally passed away, and in Vrindavan dham, and that the ceremony had been so beautiful and profound. The killer shot himself, and the brahmacaris said that he had become a "dhamabhuta" and would stay so for at least a kalpa. They also said something about her and some Maharaja seeing her in a dream, but I didn't quite understand it all.
Syamasundara - February 16, 2008 7:21 am
Ok, one kalpa only for killing himself in the dhama, then add killing a Vaisnavi, and maybe she was even a brahmani.
That's intense 
. Glad I haven't read the Audarya daily yet, because this is really too much, just the thought of having the words kill and vaisnava in the same sentence (no matter in what position).
Braja-sundari Dasi - February 16, 2008 8:04 am
I read this story few days ago and I have mixed feelings. Maybe I`m just materialistic and cannot appreciate this "auspicious" arrangement. I cannot understand how family of the girl and the girl herself would allow this guy to enter their home. They let him to go and "apologize" for the rape instead of calling police. That`s insane. I have seen several people who live in Dhama thinking this is a place like in Krsna book where everyone is Brijbasi and whatever Brijbasi does is "transcentental".
Vivek - February 16, 2008 8:43 am
yes people have a wrong conception of India when they are in ISKCON. They carry very unfavourable attitudes towards everything western and totally positive attitudes towards everything Indian(which they identify as Vedic) that they fail to see the hypocrisy inherent in society there. Obviously some things I have gained a lot from my Indian upbringing (especially being raised in a united good family) but I have also learnt a lot from my interaction with the west. Wherever sincere souls approach the Absolute, he will give them some good inspirations ideas; so, even if good ideas are scattered across the globe we should be willing to embrace them.
Vivek - February 16, 2008 8:47 am
I read this story few days ago and I have mixed feelings. Maybe I`m just materialistic and cannot appreciate this "auspicious" arrangement. I cannot understand how family of the girl and the girl herself would allow this guy to enter their home. They let him to go and "apologize" for the rape instead of calling police. That`s insane. I have seen several people who live in Dhama thinking this is a place like in Krsna book where everyone is Brijbasi and whatever Brijbasi does is "transcentental".
Yes this perception about brijbasis is there but maybe it is in place to prevent us from commenting offenses,though I won't take an extreme position like syamu on offenses. Like for example SP also said that in Puri everybody has 4 hands and we cannot see it; I didn't understand that. Maybe he is speaking about a vision of uttama adhikari.
Gaurangi-priya Devi - February 17, 2008 3:36 am
I read this story few days ago and I have mixed feelings. Maybe I`m just materialistic and cannot appreciate this "auspicious" arrangement. I cannot understand how family of the girl and the girl herself would allow this guy to enter their home. They let him to go and "apologize" for the rape instead of calling police. That`s insane. I have seen several people who live in Dhama thinking this is a place like in Krsna book where everyone is Brijbasi and whatever Brijbasi does is "transcentental".
There are a lot of mixed stories in the news. He didn't return after raping her to apologize. He raped her then shot her the same day. Unfortunately her brothers did let him in the house, something I'm sure they'll have a hard time living with. The family had reported him to the police, saying that he was stalking her, but the police did nothing about it. Lila was planning on returning to Australia that next week to get away from him. He was a son of a former prime minister, or something. Even after it happened, the news in India said that he was her paramour and that she was 24-years-old, to cover up the severity of it. Actually she was 17 and he was a physcopath stalker.
I don't think this was a case of seeing everyone as a transcendental brijbasi.
"Ok, one kalpa only for killing himself in the dhama, then add killing a Vaisnavi, and maybe she was even a brahmani."
I believe she was more than a brahmani. She was born a devotee of Radhe-Shyam, lived in Vrindavana for 13-years of her life, and only wanted to reside there.
Syamasundara - February 17, 2008 7:54 am
Of course she was, that's why I said Vaisnavi first, but in case she was a brahmani, that only adds up, like when some criminals are sometimes condemned to 3 life sentences At least in Italy I'd hear that on the news.
Also, technically a vrajavasi is someone who resides in vraja, but I believe birth is very important in this kind of considerations. Who says he was?
Anyway, it's over now. Hare Krsna.
Bhrigu - February 19, 2008 12:15 pm
Even after it happened, the news in India said that he was her paramour and that she was 24-years-old, to cover up the severity of it.
I think it is more than that. The Indian devotees I spoke with took it for granted that they had been lovers. After all, why else would he have been allowed in, and why would they have been alone in a room? I'm not saying they were, but to an Indian mind it seems obvious. Boys and girls just aren't alone with each other in a room otherwise. That he killed himself afterward was also seen as a sign of the same, "love gone wrong".
Braja-sundari Dasi - February 19, 2008 12:37 pm
I think it is more than that. The Indian devotees I spoke with took it for granted that they had been lovers. After all, why else would he have been allowed in, and why would they have been alone in a room? I'm not saying they were, but to an Indian mind it seems obvious. Boys and girls just aren't alone with each other in a room otherwise. That he killed himself afterward was also seen as a sign of the same, "love gone wrong".
I totally agree. Family is not speaking whole truth. Even in non-Indian family I can hardly imagine such situation unless, as I mentioned before, someone is totally naive.
Audarya-lila Dasa - February 19, 2008 5:55 pm
I got the impression when I was in India with my wife back in 1988 that Indian people in general also have a very distorted idea of what 'western women' are like, and for that matter western culture in general. I suspect there is a bit of racism involved in the views expressed by those you have talked to Brighu.
I find it odd that prostitution is so rampant in India and yet they have this puritanical idea about their daily dealings. It's like the hypocrisy in Iskcon, except on a much broader scale. That's not to say that everyone is a hypocrit or that the idea is bad, it's just that reality for many is quite different from what is presented at face value.
At any rate, we are talking about a very tragic death of a young vaishnavi and I find it very distasteful to hear comments to the effect that she brought this misfortune on herself. Why would the family lie? They filed a report with the police about this man so that should be a matter of public record.
Gaurangi-priya Devi - February 19, 2008 6:04 pm
At any rate, we are talking about a very tragic death of a young vaishnavi and I find it very distasteful to hear comments to the effect that she brought this misfortune on herself. Why would the family lie? They filed a report with the police about this man so that should be a matter of public record.
Thank you.
Bhrigu - February 19, 2008 6:40 pm
In no way did I wish to imply that she brought this on herself, Audaryalila. I am sorry and ashamed of myself that I came across like that. I only wanted to point out the reason for why the Indians I spoke to thought these two had been lovers.
Syamasundara - February 19, 2008 7:52 pm
I thought it was obvious that Bhrigu was only quoting, or rather, referring.