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Temple Sound System

Guru-nistha Das - February 22, 2008 6:06 pm

We would like to have some help with researching and finding the most cost-efficient sound system for the new temple.

Here's what we are looking for:

We need a PA system with a mixer, an amplifier and loud speakers. The idea was to have speakers in the temple room, prasad hall, pujari room, kitchen and two speakers outside. The temple room and the kitchen will probably take two speakers each in the opposing corners of the rooms. The temple room is about 20x25 and about 15' high, the kitchen is about 18x15 and about 10' high, so the speakers don't have to be very big. The total amount of speakers would be 8 if it's needful to have 2 speakers in the bigger areas.

 

We would greatly appreciate if you could look into that. Madan? Shyam? Other musicians or sound nerds?

Rama-Govinda Dasa - February 22, 2008 9:26 pm
We would like to have some help with researching and finding the most cost-efficient sound system for the new temple.

Here's what we are looking for:

We need a PA system with a mixer, an amplifier and loud speakers. The idea was to have speakers in the temple room, prasad hall, pujari room, kitchen and two speakers outside. The temple room and the kitchen will probably take two speakers each in the opposing corners of the rooms. The temple room is about 20x25 and about 15' high, the kitchen is about 18x15 and about 10' high, so the speakers don't have to be very big. The total amount of speakers would be 8 if it's needful to have 2 speakers in the bigger areas.

 

We would greatly appreciate if you could look into that. Madan? Shyam? Other musicians or sound nerds?

 

he I would offer one but the sound which I have is heavy , I have no idea how to send it.

 

This is very good profesional amplifier and prefosional mixer pionier djm 3000 .If I lived there then no problem otherwise I would pay a lot of money for send it.hmm

or maybe some one going to Audarya then can take it somehow :P

Madan Gopal Das - February 22, 2008 11:13 pm

Just looking around really quick I found this

 

I'm not a sound expert, just a wanna-be. Anyone with more experience can take a look at this and give some feedback. What is the budget? Maybe Rama Govinda's equipment would be good and we should just put money into shipping it out...

 

Either way we need some speakers for the other rooms, eh?

Rathi Krishna Dasa - February 23, 2008 1:41 am

I don't think you will need much in terms of sound reinforcement for such small areas, especially when it is just mostly a person speaking. I think your main area of need will be the temple room and not so much the kitchen.

 

What I would call a "modest" temple room system:

I think this or a similar system is adequate for your current needs and would also give you room to grow.

 

The Mackie 1202-VLZ (or it's slightly bigger siblings, the 1402-VLZ and 1604-VLZ) has more than enough inputs so that you can have several microphones and other devices connected (dvd/cd/mp3 player or anything that has audio outputs) with room to spare. It also features several auxiliary sends where one can go to a recording device of some sort and another to a separate system in the kitchen, which could be something as simple as a typical bookshelf stereo system's aux input, or even say, a system out to the deck.

 

The EVID-3.2T speakers are relatively small and can be wall/ceiling mounted. They are also relatively pleasing to look at. At 150w, they should be more than enough for such a small room. If you feel you do need more umph, the 4.2s offer 200w for not much more money.

 

Microphone can be anything from a trusty SM58 to a wireless set up.

 

I know it may sound like a lot, but trust me it's not. Of course this is just off the cuff and your budget is most likely going to be your deciding factor.

 

My unqualifed $0.02.

Citta Hari Dasa - February 23, 2008 3:47 am

Another consideration: four of the 8 speakers will need to be outside, which as I understand it means speakers made for the outdoors. They won't see any direct weather since they'l be tucked way up under the roof overhangs, but they'll see plenty of moisture.

Syamasundara - February 23, 2008 7:28 am

I like the wireless microphone (I mean a headset), especially for kirtans, well, actually for classes, too, but GM won't hear about it, at least in '99 he wouldn't.

 

The speakers for the kitchen shouldn't be underestimated, because there is always a lot of noise being made while cooking feasts. It would be nice if besides the speakers there was some piece of equipment in the kitchen to regulate the volume.

 

I also like the idea of a mixer with a lot of input doors, just in case they want to make a CD of songs and they need a mic for every instrument.

Rama-Govinda Dasa - February 23, 2008 1:28 pm

The proposition what Radhi-Krsna suggusted sounds good.

My mixer is more to make music which is also vey good but that one is more usefull in the temple.In my opinion the price is not so big.Gradually we can collect it.

Rathi Krishna Dasa - February 23, 2008 3:28 pm
Another consideration: four of the 8 speakers will need to be outside, which as I understand it means speakers made for the outdoors. They won't see any direct weather since they'l be tucked way up under the roof overhangs, but they'll see plenty of moisture.

 

The EVID-3.2Ts may fit that bill as well as the are rated "weather resistant" which maybe good enough given your locale. When not in use they can be "bagged" or covered if the weather is bad. Of course, Boston just got dumped with 10" of snow so I could be influenced by that.

Citta Hari Dasa - February 23, 2008 4:20 pm

Thanks for the suggestions Rathi. Syama, there will be a volume control in the kitchen; each pair of speakers will have one.

Guru-nistha Das - February 23, 2008 5:54 pm
I like the wireless microphone (I mean a headset), especially for kirtans, well, actually for classes, too, but GM won't hear about it, at least in '99 he wouldn't.

 

:Sick: Do you want to make Agni or Guru Maharaja look like a tech support guy? I think they are terrible, no matter how good they'd be sound wise.

Guru-nistha Das - February 23, 2008 6:10 pm

Ditto to Citta Hari, nice suggestions Rathi. With Rathi's suggested setup the cost would be around $ 1,500.

I found some wireless clip-on mics from the H&B site, that would be the way to go for the lectures in my opinion and kirtans could be amplified with the wire mics we have already. To top it off, it would be great to have a shotgun mic for the questions. We'd finally actually hear the questions on the cds.

Syamasundara - February 23, 2008 7:07 pm
:Sick: Do you want to make Agni or Guru Maharaja look like a tech support guy? I think they are terrible, no matter how good they'd be sound wise.

 

I don't know what image is in your mind, and from what year. Nowadays wireless microphones are as bulky as a cell phone bluetooth attachment, they just wrap around one ear, they are barely visible, they are used on TV, in theaters, concerts, presentations of all sorts, they can even be skin-colored, they would avoid awkward things like someone following the kirtan leader around with the microphone, or the leader being stuck where the microphone is (in case he or she had an urge to dance), or the leader going back and forth and the voice coming and going, or things like the microphone always getting entangled in the uttariya, garland, cadar.

I sincerely doubt anybody would think of a tech support agent nowadays, and the comment is irrelevant anyway, because it's like if I said that with the mic he uses now he looks like a guest on Oprah.

It's just yukta vairagya. SBS was using a western toilet, for a whole number of reasons and he wouldn't care what people would think.

 

 

mic.jpg

Zvonimir Tosic - February 23, 2008 11:03 pm
I sincerely doubt anybody would think of a tech support agent nowadays, and the comment is irrelevant anyway, because it's like if I said that with the mic he uses now he looks like a guest on Oprah.

 

New wireless mics are awesome, tiny and almost invisible.

You can find similar resistance to technology in classical music, say in classical guitar history. Andres Segovia, a shaktyavesa avatara of guitar, hated mics because they were bulky, couldn't justify the beauty of the sound of the guitar and wireless mics were non-existing 40-50 years ago. But today, you listen to the guitar on a stage and a guitar produces some amazing sound, that fills up the whole concert room .. impossible! And you see no bulky mics around .. and the guitar is still classical, not electric ... A miracle!

Guru-nistha Das - February 24, 2008 4:56 am

Ok I admit, I had a wrong idea of what they look like. I'm behind my times.

Bijaya Kumara Das - February 24, 2008 5:05 am
Ditto to Citta Hari, nice suggestions Rathi. With Rathi's suggested setup the cost would be around $ 1,500.

I found some wireless clip-on mics from the H&B site, that would be the way to go for the lectures in my opinion and kirtans could be amplified with the wire mics we have already. To top it off, it would be great to have a shotgun mic for the questions. We'd finally actually hear the questions on the cds.

 

This sounds good but the pic ups that are made these days are so sensitive that it may not be necessary to have anything other than the new shotgun microphones made for todays lecture halls. 2 or 3 properly placed may be enough.

 

We may only have to worry about feed back if placed wronly. Kirtans get quite loud and Guru Maharaja speaks softly some times so the sound range may be difficult to keep balanced.

Syamasundara - February 24, 2008 11:32 am

Yes, when the issue of acoustics in the new temple first arose last year, GM told us to investigate the matter, and I found out that there is a world of difference, from the acoustics point of view, between a single person talking and a chorus singing. Now, I understand that a mic system would override whatever the shape of a room, and corollary acoustics, are, but in our temple both realities will take place (single voice and chorus), so I guess it should be taken into account for any consideration that's relative to this issue: sensitive mics, mics with adjustable sensitivity... whatever the case. I know too little to understand.

Vamsidhari Dasa - February 24, 2008 11:23 pm

i have two bose speakers to donate

Syamasundara - February 25, 2008 5:30 pm
I like the wireless microphone (I mean a headset), especially for kirtans, well, actually for classes, too, but GM won't hear about it

 

About that, it was really poorly worded, especially since it was brought to my attention I have been a little hammery about it on TV, and I totally have no recollection.

Svatantra (independence) is one of the qualities of a pure devotee.

 

My Gurudeva is the source of all things good in my life, even the bad ones, that come for the good eventually, and to denigrate him even remotely or indirectly should just be repulsive to me. Sometimes I feel like I am juggling my purity and sincerity with my mind, intellect and ego, and they are all balls of different size and weight.

Vrindaranya Dasi - February 26, 2008 12:10 pm
he I would offer one but the sound which I have is heavy , I have no idea how to send it.

 

This is very good profesional amplifier and prefosional mixer pionier djm 3000 .If I lived there then no problem otherwise I would pay a lot of money for send it.hmm

or maybe some one going to Audarya then can take it somehow :Sick:

 

Rama Govinda, what is the make and model of the amp?

 

Vamsidhari, great, thank you. Could you tell me the model number or the size and wattage of the speakers? Do they have volume control on them by any chance?

 

Note: I'm realizing that we will likely have to limit where we put speakers because of the watt usage. 1000 watts of speakers will overload the capacity of our electrical system (solar power).

 

Rathi-krsna, do the speakers you recommended have volume control on them?

 

General question: Does anyone have experience with shotgun mics? How do they fare when the speaker turns his or her head from side to side? We had problems with this when we had a mic mounted on a stand. A lavalier mic solved the problem, but the flaps of an uttariya rubbing the mic or GM gesticulating can cause problems.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. About wireless mics, I came across this advice: "When deciding to using a regular wired microphone or a wireless microphone, ask yourself the following–"Will the person using the microphone need to move more than 20 feet?" If you answer yes, you may go ahead and use a wireless mic. If the person will NOT need to move, then, by all means, use a wired microphone. Wired mics are easier to work with and cost a whole lot less. As Mark Jenkins at Internally Sound says, 'If it doesn’t move–plug it in! Go wireless by NECESSITY only–not for the coolness factor. Save yourself a lot of headaches and batteries and plug in all you can!' "

Rathi Krishna Dasa - February 26, 2008 12:39 pm
Rathi-krsna, do the speakers you recommended have volume control on them?

 

No. Volume of the speakers would be controled at the mixing console. It should also be noted that I have no real experience with these speakers.

Babhru Das - February 26, 2008 2:10 pm
We had problems with this when we had a mic mounted on a stand. A lavalier mic solved the problem, but the flaps of an uttariya rubbing the mic or GM gesticulating can cause problems.

 

What about a tiny clip-on? They're probably really good nowadays.

 

P.S. About wireless mics, I came across this advice: "When deciding to using a regular wired microphone or a wireless microphone, ask yourself the following–"Will the person using the microphone need to move more than 20 feet?" If you answer yes, you may go ahead and use a wireless mic. If the person will NOT need to move, then, by all means, use a wired microphone. Wired mics are easier to work with and cost a whole lot less. As Mark Jenkins at Internally Sound says, 'If it doesn’t move–plug it in! Go wireless by NECESSITY only–not for the coolness factor. Save yourself a lot of headaches and batteries and plug in all you can!' "

I agree with this. I wonder, though, about a wire on the floor in a kirtan. It could be dangerous to the leader and others when the feet get hot.

Syamasundara - February 26, 2008 3:52 pm
P.S. About wireless mics, I came across this advice: "When deciding to using a regular wired microphone or a wireless microphone, ask yourself the following–"Will the person using the microphone need to move more than 20 feet?" If you answer yes, you may go ahead and use a wireless mic. If the person will NOT need to move, then, by all means, use a wired microphone. Wired mics are easier to work with and cost a whole lot less. As Mark Jenkins at Internally Sound says, 'If it doesn’t move–plug it in! Go wireless by NECESSITY only–not for the coolness factor. Save yourself a lot of headaches and batteries and plug in all you can!' "

 

Sure, my only care was for a microphone that stays a couple of inches from the mouth no matter what, not much whether it's wireless or not. However, Babhru has a point. During a kirtan there may be only 3 or 4 people in the temple for most of the year, and with other concerns in mind than having the best sound for 20 minutes, but in those occasions when the room is full, a wired microphone feels like an unnecessary constraint.

I wonder if those headsets can be both wired and go wireless according to the need.

Zvonimir Tosic - February 26, 2008 9:56 pm
What about a tiny clip-on? They're probably really good nowadays.

I agree with this. I wonder, though, about a wire on the floor in a kirtan. It could be dangerous to the leader and others when the feet get hot.

 

One solution shouldn't implicitly exclude another.

It's good to have both solutions ready and use accordingly.

 

I mean, would any of you guys buy MacBook laptops if they didn't have battery, wireless built-in, couldn't load DVD media ...

Vrindaranya Dasi - February 27, 2008 1:02 am

The lavalier is actually a tiny clip-on.

Babhru Das - February 27, 2008 2:03 am

Well, see how out of it I am? I had a picture, I guess, of an old-fashioned lavalier-type mic--big clunky thing hanging around the neck. I guess this is what they've evolved into. (Is it bona fide to talk about evolution? :Sick: )

Syamasundara - February 27, 2008 6:31 am

How about those mics stuck on a brace around the neck and all taped up that they use at the Ratha Yatra? ;):Sick:

Vrindaranya Dasi - February 27, 2008 5:11 pm

I found an multi-zone amplifier that would enable different zones (rooms or outdoor areas) to control volume, etc. independently. Each area could get its own remote control, so the temple room could have one volume and the kitchen another. They could also be amplifying entirely different devises; for example, the kitchen could be listening to a bhajan on a CD. This way all devises can be turn on, off, up, or down from any room in the temple or even outside. For broadcasting lectures we wouldn't even need a mixer because we could run a line out of the recorder directly into the amp. Check it out:

 

http://us.marantz.com/Products/611.asp

 

I haven't found speakers with their own volume control. This unit gives volume control and more.

Vrindaranya Dasi - February 27, 2008 5:19 pm

I found an multi-zone amplifier that would enable different zones (rooms or outdoor areas) to control volume, etc. independently. Each area could get its own remote control, so the temple room could have one volume and the kitchen another. They could also be amplifying entirely different devises; for example, the kitchen could be listening to a bhajan on a CD. This way all devises can be turn on, off, up, or down from any room in the temple or even outside. For broadcasting lectures we wouldn't even need a mixer because we could run a line out of the recorder directly into the amp. Check it out:

 

http://us.marantz.com/Products/611.asp

 

I haven't found speakers with their own volume control. This unit gives volume control and more.

 

P.S. In order for the remotes to work in any room, we need a $50 rf extender unit.