Tattva-viveka
Vrnda devi and Radha
Madan Gopal Das - March 28, 2008 5:19 pm
I have searched around in sanga archives and here, but can't seem to find a satisfying answer. I am wondering about the tattva regarding the connection of tulasi/vrnda devi and radha. How should we be meditating on tulasi in regards to srimati radhika? I know that vrnda devi arranges pastimes in vraja, that the whole of vraja is named after her and that we beseech her for residence there but how is she related in tattva to radha? For example, I'm wondering why we chant radhika stava while circumambulating tulasi. It almost implies that they are the same person (definitely a much better substitute for singing than the karma kanda-ish yani kani ca papani verse). I'm sure there is a meditation that connects these two songs like I can see in every other part of Audarya sadhana, and I would just like to join in that meditation better. Help please?
Also, I found a wonderful thread where GM mentioned a pastime of radha arranging the marriage of vrnda and krsna. Nobody elaborated or revealed that story. Where is it to be found?
Swami - March 28, 2008 5:48 pm
I have searched around in sanga archives and here, but can't seem to find a satisfying answer. I am wondering about the tattva regarding the connection of tulasi/vrnda devi and radha. How should we be meditating on tulasi in regards to srimati radhika? I know that vrnda devi arranges pastimes in vraja, that the whole of vraja is named after her and that we beseech her for residence there but how is she related in tattva to radha? For example, I'm wondering why we chant radhika stava while circumambulating tulasi. It almost implies that they are the same person (definitely a much better substitute for singing than the karma kanda-ish yani kani ca papani verse). I'm sure there is a meditation that connects these two songs like I can see in every other part of Audarya sadhana, and I would just like to join in that meditation better. Help please?Also, I found a wonderful thread where GM mentioned a pastime of radha arranging the marriage of vrnda and krsna. Nobody elaborated or revealed that story. Where is it to be found?
Tulasi-devi is known as "urjja-sakti." Thus we are honoring her as an expanasion of Radha, who is known a Urjjesvari.
Babhru Das - March 28, 2008 5:50 pm
What an interesting question! I'm an old Tulasi guy (kind of the original Tulasi guy from ISKCON), but I haven't heard anything about this. But let me see what I can find out. I certainly look forward to Swami's insights.
I also find the comment about the yani kani verse interesting. I've often wondered why Srila Prabhupada gave us this Tulasi kirtan, which is intimate enough that B. P. Keshava Maharaja wrote one he felt was more appropriate for his disciples, but gave us this verse for circumambulation, which no group other than ISKCON uses because of its karma-kanda flavor.
Atmananda Dasa - March 28, 2008 6:49 pm
Where does the, yani kani ca papani, verse come from?
How did it come about as the verse to chant whilst circumembulating Tulasi?
Babhru Das - March 28, 2008 7:00 pm
Where does the, yani kani ca papani, verse come from?How did it come about as the verse to chant whilst circumembulating Tulasi?
Srila Prabhupada instructed us to use that mantra in a letter to Govinda dasi in 1970.
Madan Gopal Das - March 28, 2008 7:06 pm
Here is a nice reference:
Devotee: Maharaja, also regarding Tulasidevi - I noticed that at this math, while circumambulating Tulasi during her arati, here, the devotees don't like to chant the mantra yani kani ca papani brahma-hatyadikani ca, tani tani pranasyanti pradaksinah pade pade ("Those who circumambulate Srimati Tulasidevi step by step destroy whatever sins they have committed, even the killing of a brahmana"). Why is this?Sridhara Maharaja: A devotee of higher order must not have any prayer to "Absolve me from sin." The first-class devotee will pray, "Whatever I have done wrong, I am ready to suffer for that, to the farthing. But my prayer is only that I may get a drop of the nectar of the favor of Krsna." That should be the prayer of a real devotee. pasu-pakhi haye thaki svarge va niraye tava bhakti rahu bhaktivinoda hrdaye: according to my karma I may be a bird, I may be a beast, I may be a worm or an insect, I may be in heaven or in hell - I don't care about that. According to my own karma, let me suffer accordingly. But my only prayer is, "Let me not be devoid of the favor of Krsna; let me get that. I want His grace; I want devotion for Him. Only devotion - that is all I want. Whether I have to enjoy the result of my good works in heaven, or I have to suffer for the misdeeds of my previous life and go to hell, I don't care to get out of that. As a result of my karma I shall have to suffer or enjoy, but I don't care about that. My prayer is not to remove the reactions to my sins, to take away any good merit or bad result - but only that I may obtain pure devotion independent of these two."I do not want release from either happiness or suffering; let it be, according to my previous karma. Rather, what I want from this moment on is that I will never try to waste the favor of Krsna by only praying to be able to face any eventuality; but that whatever I shall acquire from now on, however small, even a drop - that must be nectar of the highest order, and the lower delegation can deal with the question of heaven and hell."For removing our reactions or delivering us from hell or heaven, much lower agents are required; they can do that. But we shall only pray for Krsna's favor as a positive attainment, and never try to minimize our previous karma, the result of bad activities performed due to misconception. I don't care about the 'passport'; I want the 'visa'. If I get the visa, no passport trouble will be able to disturb me - it is something like that. So to merely do away with maya, misconception, is nothing. But the positive attainment in the domain of Krsna is a very much higher thing. By passing maya we can attain Viraja, Brahmaloka, we can get mukti (liberation), the marginal position. But why should I waste my energy only to acquire a position in the marginal plane? All my attempts must be focused toward the prayer for a position in Goloka, and that will be a gain of the very highest order. I shall pray only for that, and automatically everything else will be accomplished....
The general idea is that if we get some backing from the higher sphere, that will overrule all mandates imposed by the plane of mortality. If we are given a place in Goloka, we cannot be detained in this mundane world. When Tulasidevi can give us a place there, then why should we waste our prayer to her by asking, "Please clear away the dirt on which I am standing"? That is self-deception. So we shall always pray to the higher servitors for the higher service of the Lord. We won't care about where we might be; that problem will automatically be solved. If we get some higher appointment in the divine realm, then automatically we can't be detained here. Therefore a suddha bhakta, a pure devotee, from the core of his heart will never pray for anything else, for that would be a waste of energy. Only, "Pure inclination toward the service of my eternal Lord - that I want. I know nothing else but that, and I do not want anything else."A pure devotee won't pray for anything but for the higher service of the Lord of his heart. He can't even imagine asking for anything for his or her own interest. In Christianity such self-sacrifice is also present. And greater than that is self-forgetfulness: the self is there, but the servitor is forgetful of that and is cent-per-cent absorbed in attending to the pleasure of the Lord. No self-interest, wholesale self-forgetfulness - they are unconscious of their own particular interest because it has become merged in the interest of the Lord, the Absolute Whole.So one who is aspiring to become a pure devotee should never desire anything else but to purely serve and give joy to the Lord of his heart. When one is unconscious of everything else - "Let it be, whatever He may like" - that is pure devotion for Tulasi, or whomever we are praying to. If one has got that higher sukrti, that suddha-bhakti, the seed of Prema-bhakti, then he won't be able to think of anything else but Krsna's pleasure. He'll think only of the pleasure of his Lord, cent percent, forgetting his own body, mind - everything. That is the purest type of prayer.
Syamasundara - March 28, 2008 7:37 pm
I wonder how many would read this and think that SP would second every word, and how many would think: "Is he saying that he and his group are devotees of a higher class than SP?"
Babhru Das - March 28, 2008 8:26 pm
I think those who have some real sense of Srila Prabhupada's heart would go for the former. Others, perhaps more interested in using him to justify their own narrow vision, may find the latter more appealing. Here's what Srila Prabhupada said himself, at the end of the famous Vyasa-puja offering:
One way I've come to see that prayer is as a glorification of the simple act of showing respect to Tulasi, rather than as a petition for the release from our own sins. Just see how powerful Tulasi-devi is, due to her intimate connection with Sri Sri Radha-Govinda! Even just circumambulating her can erase such sins as killing brahmanas.
Madan Gopal Das - March 30, 2008 1:30 pm
Tulasi-devi is known as "urjja-sakti." Thus we are honoring her as an expansion of Radha, who is known a Urjjesvari.
Here is a little more elaboration that I found by Narasingha Maharaj:
According to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura Tulsi Devi is an expansion of the internal potency of Krsna known as urja. The internal potency, also known as swarupa-sakti, never comes under the influence of maya.
In Goloka Vrindavana Tulsi-devi is nondifferent from the gopinamed Vrinda who has expanded Herself as Tulsi. This Vrinda Devi is Herself an expansion of Srimati Radharani and She leads the section of sakhis known as dutika-sakhis,or messengers, . In the transcendental pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Govinda, Vrinda Devi is just under Visakha-gopi in importance and intimacy. The love and intimacy which exists between Srimati Radharani and Vrinda Devi is like a vast ocean of sweetness.
Actually the forest of Vrindavana is named after Vrinda Devi and it is a fact that She gave this beautiful forest as a gift to Srimati Radharani. In the field of vraja-bhakti it is not possible for the aspiring devotee to enter Vrindavana without first getting the blessings of Vrinda Devi. She is so exhaulted that She is considered as one of the principle Deities of Vrindavana. The feelings of affection that Radharani has for Vrinda Devi are wonderful. It is so wonderful that Radharani once made an arrangement for Krsna and Vrinda to sit together on the same throne during Their pastimes in the forest. At that time Radharani arranged for the wedding ceremony of Krsna and Vrinda to be performed.
Syamasundara - March 30, 2008 5:26 pm
And speaking of dutikas, those cute sukas (parrots) that fly back and forth in Vrndavana, even on Earth, are Vrnda's assistants and they carry all kinds of secret messages for the fulfillmentof the Divine Couple's desires.
Check out this cool pic.
"Radha-kunda at noon. We'll cover your back, don't worry."
Gaura Krsna Dasa - March 30, 2008 11:45 pm
Tulasi Maharani ki jai!
Madan Gopal, I have wondered this same question. Perhaps if I try to articulate some thoughts on this, the more insightful devotees can adjust my understanding (or at least continue the thread).
Guru Maharaja says Vrnda Devi is an expansion of Srimati Radhika. I take that to mean they are both one and different. But from my perspective down here as a dina krsna-dasa, they appear more the same than different. Therefore I find myself thinking of Tulasi-devi as a proxy of Radhika. She is her own unique person with her specific service but since I have no direct connection or knowledge of the mandala of Gokula-tarunis or Sri Radhika at their center, I am left seeing her as the representative of Sri Radha's mercy.
Just as Tulasi Devi is the proxy of Radhika (in my mind... erroneously or not), the Vrndavana in my mind -the Vrndavana which I aspire to- is also a proxy of the actual one. I don't really know what Vrndavana is, but one thing is clear to me: it represents the full embodiment of a consciousness which is simultaneously devoid of all self-interest and also overflowing with a feeling of service to the Highest. Vrndavana is far, far above my usual state. The only sense I can have of it, beyond what I am told by my guru and the Acaryas is the sense of mercy descending on me from above. Therefore, in my worldly state of consciousness, I can only really understand the Vrajavasis as bestowers of mercy. Their lives have nothing to do with me. Compassion, loving kindness, mercy -that's the only window I have. For me, Tulasi Devi is an enduring example of this.
We see many examples in Gaudiya Vaisnavism of how the highest and most exalted reality manifests itself by assuming the most demur and humble form. Generally, Srimati Radhika is described as the most exalted person, yet, when she expands into Tulasi Devi, she takes a form in the lowest order of manifest physical being: a plant. As a non-moving living entity she is fully dependent upon us (a frightening thought). As anyone who cares for her knows well, she can be somewhat fragile at times. She cannot be neglected or she sheds her body. Also, because she is unmoving, she cannot run away when see is surrounded by self-interested, non-spiritual activities and conversation. If she doesn't die (and she usually doesn't due to her generous and patient nature) she can only sit and endure the nonsense. Only the highest would be willing to subject Herself (Himself) to these unfavorable conditions, to become a dependent living entity, and all just to demonstrate mercy to us.
The Holy Name itself is chanted on Tulasi Devi's body and when we are accepted as devotees, we offer our necks for her to rest on for the remainder of the days of our life. We are encouraged to chant before her to make real progress. We put her leaves on our food offerings to make them acceptable. We are encouraged to care for her and worship her even when we have no qualification for anything else. By caring for her we learn important lessons on how to tend our creeper of devotional life and how to care for other living beings. It seems she is always with us, quietly supporting every aspect of our devotional life.
Anyone can steward Tulasi-devi. I'm pretty convinced now that Tulasi really is Tulasi, no matter what. She is not a mental projection, she is not DNA, she is not a symbol. She really is spiritual. I have watched cats meditate on Tulasi; sitting before her with their paws folded staring into her the way they do. I have seen sick animals come into the garden and die peacefully under her branches. I have seen non-devotees walk through my garden, home to well over a hundred varieties of flowers, herbs, fruits, berries, veggies, and all the rest, and walk right past the fabulous seasonal displays of color and scent, walk right up to Tulasi, rather homely by comparison, and start fondling her leaves. I watched a friend of a friend (who is training to be a Jesuit priest) come in the garden, fire up a cigarette, walk around, look at Tulasi for a moment or so, then looking at the cigarette in his fingers say: "I think I will give these up." And yet I still think of her as a plant sometimes. What is more amazing?
Returning to the original point, much to relief of those few still reading this, I think that Sri Radhika and Tulasi Devi are so intimate with one another that there is little difference between them from our point of view. Thinking of one reminds me of the other. The wonderful quotes already presented suggest that we are to serve both. But since we (well...I) am still praying for seva-adhikara diye koro vrajavasi, I can more directly serve Radhika's sister because she is directly manifest in my house. I water her in the morning because she is the closest thing I can know of karunam kuru mayi radhe radhe.
Swami - March 31, 2008 1:43 pm
Tulasi Maharani ki jai!
Madan Gopal, I have wondered this same question. Perhaps if I try to articulate some thoughts on this, the more insightful devotees can adjust my understanding (or at least continue the thread).
Guru Maharaja says Vrnda Devi is an expansion of Srimati Radhika. I take that to mean they are both one and different. But from my perspective down here as a dina krsna-dasa, they appear more the same than different. Therefore I find myself thinking of Tulasi-devi as a proxy of Radhika. She is her own unique person with her specific service but since I have no direct connection or knowledge of the mandala of Gokula-tarunis or Sri Radhika at their center, I am left seeing her as the representative of Sri Radha's mercy.
Just as Tulasi Devi is the proxy of Radhika (in my mind... erroneously or not), the Vrndavana in my mind -the Vrndavana which I aspire to- is also a proxy of the actual one. I don't really know what Vrndavana is, but one thing is clear to me: it represents the full embodiment of a consciousness which is simultaneously devoid of all self-interest and also overflowing with a feeling of service to the Highest. Vrndavana is far, far above my usual state. The only sense I can have of it, beyond what I am told by my guru and the Acaryas is the sense of mercy descending on me from above. Therefore, in my worldly state of consciousness, I can only really understand the Vrajavasis as bestowers of mercy. Their lives have nothing to do with me. Compassion, loving kindness, mercy -that's the only window I have. For me, Tulasi Devi is an enduring example of this.
We see many examples in Gaudiya Vaisnavism of how the highest and most exalted reality manifests itself by assuming the most demur and humble form. Generally, Srimati Radhika is described as the most exalted person, yet, when she expands into Tulasi Devi, she takes a form in the lowest order of manifest physical being: a plant. As a non-moving living entity she is fully dependent upon us (a frightening thought). As anyone who cares for her knows well, she can be somewhat fragile at times. She cannot be neglected or she sheds her body. Also, because she is unmoving, she cannot run away when see is surrounded by self-interested, non-spiritual activities and conversation. If she doesn't die (and she usually doesn't due to her generous and patient nature) she can only sit and endure the nonsense. Only the highest would be willing to subject Herself (Himself) to these unfavorable conditions, to become a dependent living entity, and all just to demonstrate mercy to us.
The Holy Name itself is chanted on Tulasi Devi's body and when we are accepted as devotees, we offer our necks for her to rest on for the remainder of the days of our life. We are encouraged to chant before her to make real progress. We put her leaves on our food offerings to make them acceptable. We are encouraged to care for her and worship her even when we have no qualification for anything else. By caring for her we learn important lessons on how to tend our creeper of devotional life and how to care for other living beings. It seems she is always with us, quietly supporting every aspect of our devotional life.
Anyone can steward Tulasi-devi. I'm pretty convinced now that Tulasi really is Tulasi, no matter what. She is not a mental projection, she is not DNA, she is not a symbol. She really is spiritual. I have watched cats meditate on Tulasi; sitting before her with their paws folded staring into her the way they do. I have seen sick animals come into the garden and die peacefully under her branches. I have seen non-devotees walk through my garden, home to well over a hundred varieties of flowers, herbs, fruits, berries, veggies, and all the rest, and walk right past the fabulous seasonal displays of color and scent, walk right up to Tulasi, rather homely by comparison, and start fondling her leaves. I watched a friend of a friend (who is training to be a Jesuit priest) come in the garden, fire up a cigarette, walk around, look at Tulasi for a moment or so, then looking at the cigarette in his fingers say: "I think I will give these up." And yet I still think of her as a plant sometimes. What is more amazing?
Returning to the original point, much to relief of those few still reading this, I think that Sri Radhika and Tulasi Devi are so intimate with one another that there is little difference between them from our point of view. Thinking of one reminds me of the other. The wonderful quotes already presented suggest that we are to serve both. But since we (well...I) am still praying for seva-adhikara diye koro vrajavasi, I can more directly serve Radhika's sister because she is directly manifest in my house. I water her in the morning because she is the closest thing I can know of karunam kuru mayi radhe radhe.
Beautiful!
Madan Gopal Das - March 31, 2008 2:21 pm
You should post more often Gaura Krsna! So quiet on T.V., but when you say something it is so nice! Thanks for those thoughts.
I have been thinking a lot about how Radha is the queen of Vrnda-vana. Everything that goes on there is ultimately by her arrangement. She is the original shakti and we are praying to her expansion tulasi for residence in that kingdom of love. Vrnda devi is like a gate keeper, and if I can gain her favor, maybe I will be able to witness some of the wonder of vraja. Also, tulasi is an ambassador from vraja. If I can hang on to consciousness of her life, her home, possibly I can go there. By representing home, she also transforms our household into vraja and thus soothes our soul - tulasi dekhi juraya prana. Just as radhe is always pushing others forward to serve krsna, she manifests as tulasi so that we can have an opportunity for service to a vrajavasi.
GM mentioned that tulasi is urja sakti. Urja means power or strength right? Is there some particular reason she is known as urja sakti? Any connection with kartika and Urjjesvari - Radha. Or could this just be interpreted as we get spiritual strength from serving tulasi?
Madan Gopal Das - March 31, 2008 2:54 pm
B. P. Keshava Maharaja wrote one (tulasi kirtan) he felt was more appropriate for his disciples
Interesting. GM has nicely tweaked that verse in our tulasi kirtan which I think very succinctly gets across some wonderful tattva - go to vraja through navadvipa - gauranger anugata koro, seva adhikar dije koro braja basi. Worship in mayapur, live in vrndavana. Pujyapad Keshava Maharaj's prayer includes some similar focus on gaura amidst verses of prayer for residence in vraja.
2. Becoming your follower and taking the dust of your feet, day and night I will be immersed in the service of Sri Gaurahari. 3. The desire of this fallen person is that you will make me a resident of mayapura where I will always smear the dust of the dhama on my bodily limbs.
This all just reminds me of the time when I visited Srivas angan. Enormous tulasi plants growing in various places in the courtyard! I remember sitting by them admiring them and in wonder at how they seemed to grow so vibrant.
Syamasundara - March 31, 2008 4:26 pm
:Talking Ear Off:
This thread is sour-sweet for me, as it reminds me I am still a nomad, and won't be able to take care of Tulasi for who knows how long.
My feelings and attachment for Tulasi Devi always surprise me, as it's not that I ever had a specific seva with her, yet, when I see the green of her leaves, the beauty of the mañjaris, or happen to taste a leaf in the prasada, it's always incredible.
I also remember seeing a huge and happy Tulasi. I was in Iskcon Puri, they were still building the temple on that plot that was actually BVT's bhajan kutir (I want to hope they tore it down and built on it, because it was too much of a ruin to restore). I remember chanting japa around her and her shadow, and she was one lush plant, potted as she was in one of those clay pots where they cook, offer and distribute food for Jagannatha.
By the way, I am happy to see our songs being quoted 
and I second Madan's invitation to Gaura Krsna (can you re-send me your ph # by email, please?).
As to the original question, I also wondered the same thing, but based on what has been said on her being Radha's expansion I didn't see it as so peculiar. After all, we are saktas, and that's about the only moment we have to worship sakti alone, and extol her glories, as Krsna likes, especially if on the altar we have GN, KB and Narasimha. GM sang that song, with that new melody, for the first time (in the West) on a dhupa arati; I believe the first greeting of the deities after he came back from three months in Vrndavana in May '99. He had also brought the KB silas.
Swami - March 31, 2008 5:23 pm
Does anyone have a copy of Pujyapada Kesava Maharaja's Tulasi kirtana? Is it in Bengali or Hindi?
Swami
Madan Gopal Das - March 31, 2008 5:52 pm
I have it, in B.V. Narayana Maharaj's songbook - Sri Gaudiya Gita Guccha, page 120. I would post it, but it is destroyed when converting to html. You can look at it or download it here: link
Here is the full translation:
O Srimati Tulasi devi! Desiring to enter the eternal service of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna,I repeatedly offer pranama to you, who are so dear to Sri Krsna. (1)
One who takes shelter of you attains the service of Sri Krsna. Being merciful, you
make him a resident of Vrndavana. (2)
Allow me to catch hold of your lotus feet. May you make me your intimate follower,
and day and night keep me immersed in the service of Sri Gaurahari. (3)
I am fallen but I desire that you make me a resident of Mäyäpura where I will always
smear the dust of the dhäma on my body. (4)
Performing your ärati with incense, ghee lamp, and flowers, I will derive great
happiness from describing your glories. (5)
Of all the flowers within the universe, none is your equal for Sri Krsna, putting aside
all of them, performs pastimes only with your leaves and mañjaris. (6)
O Vrnde Mahäräni! Bestower of krsna-bhakti! All the demigods, sages and holy
places joyfully reside at your feet. (7)
Devoid of sädhana-bhajana, Sri Kesava takes shelter of you and attains unbroken
nämänanda. (8)
Babhru Das - March 31, 2008 6:43 pm
It looks like Bengali. I have a pdf of the book on my computer. I guess I need to figure out how to zip it, and I could send it to anyone who can't download it from their site.
Syamasundara - March 31, 2008 6:52 pm
It looks like Bengali.
Most definitely is. Did you know the other tulasi song (namo're namo're maiya) is in Vrajavasi?
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - April 1, 2008 1:41 am
