Tattva-viveka
pranayama
Gaura-Vijaya Das - August 8, 2008 6:57 am
As I had seen before VCT has mentioned that pranayama is pratikula for bhakti. But I was reading that Sanatana Gosvami has actually praised pranayama here:
The mantra meditation that you speak of [in Sanskrit] is called mantra-dhyana, which culminates in the stage of samadhi [trance]. This is a developmental process and one has to pass through many stages before reaching perfection. But why we are faced with the difficulty of being unable to control the mind while chanting japa should first be understood.
The very nature of the mind is flickering and restless like the wind. For this reason it is sometimes seen that a person will adopt the yoga practices of pranayama and asana as a means to control the mind. In Hari-bhakti-vilasa by Sanatana Gosvami, the process of pranayama and asana for a devotee is mentioned in the fifth chapter, as performed with pranava [omkara] or kama-bija. There it is said that while sitting in either padma-asana or svastika-asana one should chant the mantra sixteen times while inhaling, chant the mantra sixty-four times while holding the breath and chant the mantra thirty-two times while exhaling.
Sanatana Gosvami also recommends that the practitioner meditates upon Visnu [Krsna] and states that one should remember Rudra as the out-going breath, Brahma as the in-going breath and Visnu as the breath that is retained within.
After explaining thus, Sanatana Gosvami relates the glories of pranayama by citing a verse from Padma Purana wherein Devahuti and Vikundala glorify the process of pranayama.
Sanatana Gosvami suggests that one perform pranayama before taking bath (within the confines of one's house), before performing arcana [Deity worship] and before chanting gayatri [japa].
So maybe there is no one sided view about pranayama in Gaudiya Sampradaya.
Bhrigu - August 8, 2008 3:00 pm
Where has pranayama been described as pratikula for bhakti?
Citta Hari Dasa - August 8, 2008 4:07 pm
Where has pranayama been described as pratikula for bhakti?
Guru Maharaja mentioned to me years ago that Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura mentioned it. I've never heard an exact reference.
Swami - August 8, 2008 5:11 pm
I believe it is found in his Bhagavatam commentary, but I do not have it with me.
Citta Hari Dasa - August 8, 2008 6:30 pm
As I understand it, the idea is that since bhakti is all about becoming dependent on guru and Krsna, through pranayama one might come to depend on it to control the mind instead of Harinama and thus adulterate one's bhakti with yoga.
But if one is under the guidance of a qualified guru and clearly understands that advancement in bhakti is through grace then I would think the danger for that would be much less, if not nil. If a devotee can control his or her mind without using yogic techniques then great. If not, then practices like asana and pranayama can help a devotee to actually pay attention to his or her chanting, and in such a case I don't see the harm. What is your opinion Guru Maharaja?
Swami - August 8, 2008 7:47 pm
As I understand it, the idea is that since bhakti is all about becoming dependent on guru and Krsna, through pranayama one might come to depend on it to control the mind instead of Harinama and thus adulterate one's bhakti with yoga.
But if one is under the guidance of a qualified guru and clearly understands that advancement in bhakti is through grace then I would think the danger for that would be much less, if not nil. If a devotee can control his or her mind without using yogic techniques then great. If not, then practices like asana and pranayama can help a devotee to actually pay attention to his or her chanting, and in such a case I don't see the harm. What is your opinion Guru Maharaja?
Well I do not have an argument with Sanatana Goswami. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is not my favorite purvacarya, although I say this with the deepest respect for him. It seems to me that there is a strong emphasis in his writing that leans heavily toward bhakti alone in ways that exceed the emphasis of his predecessors. While this seems laudable in many respects, it has also given support to a Vaisnava form of antinomianism that can get in the way of contemporary preaching. Take a deep breath.
Citta Hari Dasa - August 8, 2008 9:44 pm
Well I do not have an argument with Sanatana Goswami. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is not my favorite purvacarya, although I say this with the deepest respect for him. It seems to me that there is a strong emphasis in his writing that leans heavily toward bhakti alone in ways that exceed the emphasis of his predecessors. While this seems laudable in many respects, it has also given support to a Vaisnava form of antinomianism that can get in the way of contemporary preaching. Take a deep breath.
Could you say more about this idea of antinomianism in the Gaudiya sampradaya?
Syamasundara - August 8, 2008 9:48 pm
Well I do not have an argument with Sanatana Goswami. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is not my favorite purvacarya, although I say this with the deepest respect for him. It seems to me that there is a strong emphasis in his writing that leans heavily toward bhakti alone in ways that exceed the emphasis of his predecessors. While this seems laudable in many respects, it has also given support to a Vaisnava form of antinomianism that can get in the way of contemporary preaching.
Hear, hear...
Take a deep breath.
:Rolling Eyes: 
One thing that must be taken into account is the cultural and social context, as usual. In the time of VCT if someone practiced pranayama, he or she was following a very specific path, with a very specific goal in mind; the famous puffed up yogis SP refers to. As some may know, at every birth we are granted a specific number of breaths; some control their breath to lengthen their life span (the famous 400 y/o yogi that shows up at Kumbha Melas and such), or control their life airs and attain powers, or see the supreme soul, and themselves as such. The bottom line is their motivations were selfish, and in that sense antithetical to the ideal of bhakti.
But nowadays? Give me a break, especially here in California, yoga is a joke, nobody knows what yoga is anymore, and even those that do go deeper than a one-hour session at the gym, don't have the concerns VCT is talking about.
So, if and when pranayama is anukula, sure, why not?
The same could be said of learning and knowing Sanskrit. I never really studied it, but once, I had a glimpse of the kind of arrogance and hard-heartedness that knowing too much Sanskrit could bring about. Still, that won't stop me from learning it (next one in line after Bengali, which is the current one), a) because once GM and I were driving to Audarya from Point Arena and he told me he'd like his disciples to know Sanskrit, Bengali, how to cook, sing and play; and b ) because although I never studied it, I do know some Sanskrit, and the Bhagavatam becomes alive when I listen to a sloka of which I know not only the meaning, but what each word means, and the various meaning a sloka can have (think of SSM). You can see that the BG is actually a dialogue, and Krsna is a person...
Confirmed!! (As I was typing that, a peacock cried out of the blue)
Yamuna Dasi - August 10, 2008 9:39 pm
Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone please give me translation for these?
1/ anukula
2/ pratikula
3/ purvacarya
And if there is some online dictionary… so that I can stop bothering you with such questions?