Tattva-viveka

bi-polarity

Premanandini - August 17, 2008 8:20 pm

does anyone have experience with bi-polarity?

i am confronted with 4 people with this problem (of course you find out just later - after they really confused you) who came through my yoga classes.

Can anyone tell me: from spiritual point of view:

what is it?

and how to deal with or help overcome it?

1)is it just a mental karmic reaction to sinful or abusive behavior?

2) is it a sign that the person is very sensitiv and should spiritually wake up - like a cry out of the soul?

to overcome it:

should it be enough to tell them - like it is sometimes proclaimes: "Just chant hare krsna...."

should one recomand psychopharmaca, psychotherapie or just bhakti?

can this disease healed ?

i dont know how to deal with them: if you enter their mind - you get kind of crazy

I am also not really succesfull in capturing or skipping their mind (as it might work with "normal" people" and just adress the heart or soul.)

I am not sure if it is "worth" trying to preach or help them anymore - in maniac state they are so enthusiastic and I think now they got it and in depression they are gone weeks up to some months - and you have to start kind of completly new - which is taking a lot of energy.

any experience/advice on this please???

Margaret Dale - August 18, 2008 2:02 am

I have some experience with mental diseases, although not specifically with bipolar disorder. I'm sure Vamsi will have some words of wisdom.....

GM has talked about the need for both lateral development and vertical development. My understanding of it is that lateral development is development of our mind and intelligence to the point where we are able to interact maturely with other people and are able to understand spiritual topics, allowing us to grow vertically toward Krsna-prema.

Psychiatric disorders as you describe, I personally feel, are disorders of lateral development and make it nearly impossible for affected individuals to grow properly in spiritual life. Providing a spiritual support system can help, but I think it is naive to suggest that for most people "just chanting hare krsna" is enough to heal them. I don't feel that they are qualified to have the faith necessary for the nama to work on them. Not that it's impossible, I just think it's unlikely. I think a more compassionate approach is to encourage them to seek professional help and appropriate medications, so that their mind is settled enough to hear the scriptures and understand them.

Audarya-lila Dasa - August 18, 2008 2:43 am

Bipolar disorder is a disease, but it affects the mind, not the soul. People who are ill can develop faith in Krsna and certainly chanting is prescribed for everyone as the process for spiritual development. No one is barred due to physical or mental disorders. There are good medications that help stabilize those with bipolar disorder. People who have bipolar disorder should definitely see both a trained psychiatrist and a psychologist. Depending on the severity of the disorder, there are different ways to treating the patient.

Madan Gopal Das - August 18, 2008 2:27 pm

Can anyone tell me: from spiritual point of view:

No, sorry - This is best dealt with from a psychological/psychiatric point of view.

what is it?

It was formerly referred to as "manic depressive", indicating the two 'poles' of symptoms that people with bi-polar disorder manifest; they are manic sometimes (think they can conquer the world, staying awake for days on end, grandiose thoughts) and more often they are deeply depressed, in a very polar opposite way.

1)is it just a mental karmic reaction to sinful or abusive behavior?
2) is it a sign that the person is very sensitiv and should spiritually wake up - like a cry out of the soul?

I wouldn't go there (try to figure out the cause, or give recommendations) if I were you. If you are trying to help people with yoga and better lifestyle, that is nice and will likely be beneficial to anyone with bi-polar disorder. But they need more help than this. Do not think of it as a karmic reaction for something they have done, that view of karma is a compassion killer and leads not to assisting someone, but to a fanatic mentality that condemns people. Run away from those thoughts. Stay in the here and now; who cares how they became bi-polar, how can I help?

to overcome it:
should it be enough to tell them - like it is sometimes proclaimes: "Just chant hare krsna...."

Definitely not! As others have alluded to, we are spiritual beings but we also have material needs, conditioning and a body. This side of the person needs to be dealt with appropriately in order to supplement a persons ability to practice spiritual life. If you have a disease and the doctor recommends you to take one pill daily, as you follow the regimen given by the doctor you will see a reduction of symptoms in short time. But if you are so desperate for a cure that you decide to take the whole bottle all at once, it may kill you! "Just chant hare krsna" is the solution, but it is not the direct solution for any material problem; it is a long term spiritual solution to everything - in the mean time, chant hare krsna and deal with the material world in an appropriate way.

should one recomand psychopharmaca, psychotherapie or just bhakti?

I would not recommend just bhakti to deal with mental health issues. You should also be careful to use your role appropriately. I would recommend medication and therapy, but I am a mental health clinician. If that is not your role, you can ruin relationships with people by making such recommendations. Based upon your relationship with a person you have to gauge what is appropriate. It may be that family, friends and professionals are already helping and you have a different role to play in a person's life. Just don't try to do it all.

i dont know how to deal with them: if you enter their mind - you get kind of crazy
I am also not really succesfull in capturing or skipping their mind. I am not sure if it is "worth" trying to preach or help them anymore. - which is taking a lot of energy.

People with bi-polar disorder are more often "down" than "up". If you are aware of their diagnosis of bi-polar, you can read up on it a little more and just by having more information about how their minds operate you can interact appropriately with them. Try to see their strengths and keep in mind their limitations as you teach. After all, everybody we meet in the material world has some kind of "disorder" and we have to learn to be flexible and adjust our ways of interacting with various people. Most importantly though we have to recommend people to appropriate care. If these people have told you that they are bi-polar, they are 1) making themselves vulnerable to you and 2) probably indicating that they are already seeing a doctor.

Vamsidhari Dasa - August 18, 2008 3:35 pm

It may be that family, friends and professionals are already helping and you have a different role to play in a person's life. Just don't try to do it all.
People with bi-polar disorder are more often "down" than "up". If you are aware of their diagnosis of bi-polar, you can read up on it a little more and just by having more information about how their minds operate you can interact appropriately with them. Try to see their strengths and keep in mind their limitations as you teach. After all, everybody we meet in the material world has some kind of "disorder" and we have to learn to be flexible and adjust our ways of interacting with various people. Most importantly though we have to recommend people to appropriate care. If these people have told you that they are bi-polar, they are 1) making themselves vulnerable to you and 2) probably indicating that they are already seeing a doctor.

Re: all of the above :Praying: :glare: :Applause: Good job Madanji!

Just wanted to reiterate that Bipoar disorder is a very serious and extremely difficult form of mental illness it is taxing, physically, psychologically, and socaily because it affects all those that the person comes in contact with.

If someone had an infection you would most likely let them go to a physician to get some anti-biotic, right? So this is the same. Bipolar Disorder requires mood stabilizers, such as lithium, usually the prognosis is good if a patient keeps the medication regiment, but the compliance is the biggest issue with those who cycle rapidly. That is if you feel like you OWN THE WORLD, why would you ever want to come down from there? So many Bpolar people fail to take medication due to elation they feel when in the manic phase.

Although, the life in bhakti can appear magical to us, bhakti is not magic. It does not "heal" or make a person into someone else. She is completely independent therefore, She might chose to come to someone who is bi-polar. Why not? There is no bipolarity in the spiritual world, only harmony. One who is bi-polar cannot chant with a peaceful mind therefore what is the purpose of telling them to do something they cannot do. Because it is very taxing to be around a bi-polar person (or any mentally ill person) we tend to give all these recommendations because we need to make distance from them. To think of this as karma or some sin is just an expression of prejudice and being misinformed. Sometimes it is better to think of one self as not knowing what to recommend then to recommend things that would actually be injurious to the person that is coming to us for help.

Premanandini - August 18, 2008 10:43 pm

thank you margaret, audharya lila, madan gopal and vamsidhari for your answer!!!

I am kind of helpless in this situation - trying to not being pulled down myself by compassion/affection and on the same time being some kind of spiritual friend offering relevant support/help.

i will read your answers over a couple of times and try to act accordingly - thanks!