Tattva-viveka
Homosexuality in the spiritual realm?
Madeleine Brodd - September 6, 2008 9:20 am
Haribol!
I've been contemplating about if there is homosexuality in the spiritual world? The material world is a reflection of the spiritual world, so I guess there must be some gays in the spiritual realm also :Raised Eyebrow: What is your opinion about that?
Gaura-Vijaya Das - September 6, 2008 2:43 pm
Haribol!
I've been contemplating about if there is homosexuality in the spiritual world? The material world is a reflection of the spiritual world, so I guess there must be some gays in the spiritual realm also :Raised Eyebrow: What is your opinion about that?
gays can be a reflection of sakhya bhava.
Some people say that Mohini murti and Siva are like gays but I found it weird.
Citta Hari Dasa - September 6, 2008 2:51 pm
Haribol!
I've been contemplating about if there is homosexuality in the spiritual world? The material world is a reflection of the spiritual world, so I guess there must be some gays in the spiritual realm also :Raised Eyebrow: What is your opinion about that?
There are a couple of points here that come immediately to mind:
1. Because it's said that the material world is a distorted reflection of the spiritual world does not mean that everything we find here is present there. No cars, cell phones, crime, etc. in the lila.
2. The lila goes on within the context of varnasrama, wherein male/female relationships are the norm. Homosexuality in this world is a product of karma, as is all sexual inclination. What would the basis for such a relationship be in the spiritual world, since karma does not exist there?
Syamasundara - September 7, 2008 1:19 am
I really doubt you'd find the full expression of homosexuality, but something very close to an amorous friendship. It is said that some cowherd boys faint if Krsna goes behind a tree and they can't see him for a second. Now, that's intense love. Imagine how they feel when he rests his head on their laps or when they massage his feet. Still, that doesn't mean they long to be alone with him in some grove. They are already one with him without that! They know everything about him (some).
It's hard to conceive and grasp fullly.
When I was 13 or so, the most beautiful girl in my class and the the most handsome guy were together, and I was friends with both, and actually had a crush on her and the hotties for him, but had no hope with either, still I was very instrumental in their relationship, I knew everything that went on between them and from both sides. That was one intense period of my life. I remember one summer evening while absorbed in... whatever that was, I got up to get something in the fridge during dinner, and remained with the door in my hand, staring in the void. My mother said: "Oi! Are you in love?" Human feelings can be quite complex and variegated, and if they are here, where they are based on a distortion, imagine there.
Prahlad Das - September 7, 2008 3:12 am
An interesting question...
A little off subject, would there be hijaras in the spiritual world??? These are the gender nonspecifics, and hermaphrodites which have a place in Indian society. I've heard that when Mahaprabhu advented he was greeted by these hijaras and they blessed him and chanted and danced for him. This is common place in Indian society. Almost every time a child is born the hijaras make a special trip to see them. They dance and sing and throw a comic type party, view the child, take some donation for their exhibitions and then leave. If the child were to be born nonspecific or as a hermaphrodite, then they would adopt the child into their own society and raise them as one of theirs. They've been mentioned throughout the Vedic literatures sporadically.
Mahaprabhu gave a step by step system of realizing Prema Bhakti in His Siksatakam.
He first encourages to chant the Holy Name because of its benefits, then he re-emphasizes the Holy Name by saying if you aren't totally enraptured by it you haven't had a true taste (which is there to be had), then he emphasizes humility which was led up to by the second verse and established in the 3rd. The 4th verse discusses:
na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye
mama janmani janmanisvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi
O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.
I don't know if there are any heterosexual or homosexual who are still engaging in these types of sexual unions who has reached this stage of devotion.
It seems that if one were to have no desire for the objects of the senses then how could sexual union even take place. Perhaps after we reach this stage we can try to consider this type of notion, and perhaps by then we may see things in a totally different light... Who knows :Raised Eyebrow:
Syamasundara - September 7, 2008 4:07 am
So, you're saying no one wants sexual union with Krsna? :Raised Eyebrow:
Madeleine Brodd - September 7, 2008 12:30 pm
"I don't know if there are any heterosexual or homosexual who are still engaging in these types of sexual unions who has reached this stage of devotion.
It seems that if one were to have no desire for the objects of the senses then how could sexual union even take place."
If there is sexual union in the spiritual world, then I don't think it's based on lust as it is in this world. I think it's totally selfgiving.
Here is a extract from one of Narayana Maharaja's sri Radhastami lectures. It's Radha who is saying this to Krishna.
"There is no comparison to My happiness in these worlds. I am happy only by seeing Your happiness. I am always blissful because I have no concept of the happiness of others; I only desire Your happiness. I want to see Your happiness from morning to night, and night to morning."
"By seeing Me You become happy, and therefore I decorate Myself in many ways with srngara (ornaments) and alankara (decorations). I do this for You only; I do this because by seeing Me with all these ornaments and decorations You feel great happiness. I dedicate Myself unto Your lotus feet only to increase Your satisfaction and fulfill Your desires. I become so happy when You say to Me, 'You are My beloved, My mistress, My life and soul.' No one can understand the happiness I feel; there is no comparison to it in this world."
I think this is a proof for their love is just about giving. So if there is any sexual union in the spiritual world, then it must be in the mood like this.
HAPPY SRI RADHASTAMI!! :Raised Eyebrow: It's Radhastami here in Sweden today :Rolling Eyes:
Prahlad Das - September 7, 2008 6:54 pm
"I don't know if there are any heterosexual or homosexual who are still engaging in these types of sexual unions who has reached this stage of devotion.It seems that if one were to have no desire for the objects of the senses then how could sexual union even take place."
If there is sexual union in the spiritual world, then I don't think it's based on lust as it is in this world. I think it's totally selfgiving.
Here is a extract from one of Narayana Maharaja's sri Radhastami lectures. It's Radha who is saying this to Krishna.
"There is no comparison to My happiness in these worlds. I am happy only by seeing Your happiness. I am always blissful because I have no concept of the happiness of others; I only desire Your happiness. I want to see Your happiness from morning to night, and night to morning."
"By seeing Me You become happy, and therefore I decorate Myself in many ways with srngara (ornaments) and alankara (decorations). I do this for You only; I do this because by seeing Me with all these ornaments and decorations You feel great happiness. I dedicate Myself unto Your lotus feet only to increase Your satisfaction and fulfill Your desires. I become so happy when You say to Me, 'You are My beloved, My mistress, My life and soul.' No one can understand the happiness I feel; there is no comparison to it in this world."
I think this is a proof for their love is just about giving. So if there is any sexual union in the spiritual world, then it must be in the mood like this.
HAPPY SRI RADHASTAMI!! :Raised Eyebrow: It's Radhastami here in Sweden today :Rolling Eyes:
So, you're saying no one wants sexual union with Krsna? Batting Eyelashes.gif
The context in which you quoted me was regarding a sadhaka in this world. I was implying that there are stages we go through before things are no longer mental conjecture and they are able to be realized. To clarify, my point was, by the time we get to the stage where we have no desire for self interest, the relativities of hetero and homo sexualities may not even be a concern and the types of sexual unions in this world will seem perversions thereby distasteful in that they are not conducive to service. I was not discussing what type of sex happens in the spiritual world. I'm sure you are right about the complete self-giving in the spiritual world. It has been said that everything revolves around Krsna in Goloka and the followers of Mahaprabhu in the line of Sri Rupa say the ultimate reservoir of pleasure for Krsna is NONE other than Shrimati Radharani. Krsna also explicitly says the best way to please Him is to please His beloveds. So, from that perspective Gaudiya Lineage is only concerned with service of Srimati Radharani and Her associates and representatives. Sri Radhastmi Maha Uttsava Ki Jaya :Rolling Eyes:
Vamsidhari Dasa - September 8, 2008 12:01 am
There are a couple of points here that come immediately to mind:
No cars, cell phones, crime, etc. in the lila.
:Shocked:
OMG, the iPhone is totally spiritual! Girrrrrrl@!
Syama Gopala Dasa - September 8, 2008 5:30 pm
No cars, cell phones, crime, etc. in the lila.
Who stole the butter pot?
Syamasundara - September 9, 2008 1:15 pm
Hehe, who's sneaking out with married women?