I have to confess that my mind and heart were saddened and confused years ago when I heard the answer of a guru (prefer not to mention names) to a married couple of devotees regarding adoption. He was completely against adoption and advised them not to adopt a child. The reasons mentioned were that the child has the genes and the karma of being born from these parents, can have deceases etc. This married couple of devotees had had one child with serious problems (mental and physical, retarded child) after being devotees and serving selflessly for over 15 years. They were living in a devotional community of few more families all of which were having many and very pretty kids. So they were hoping that they can adopt one or two kids and raise them nicely as vaishnavas, together also with their ill kid. Actually this is what griha life is for – selflessly raising kids and meanwhile advance spiritually through this and many other services.
I am sorry to say it, but I find the considerations mentioned by this guru against the adoption very material and insensitive for the circumstances and the hearts of these devotees, practically contradicting to all the spirit of preaching at least as I understand it. What does it mean that the child has its own karma and is loaded by it? We are all in this very situation – karmically loaded. Also obviously rendering 15 years devotional service living in a devotional community was not enough to grant these devotees even a healthy child, while so many other “karmi” parents have perfectly healthy children which they abandon for being adopted. When we preach to people we don’t measure their “karmic load” – we just preach to them and this is an act of mercy. Then why should such completely material considerations enter when it’s regarding the act of mercy for adopting a child? How can a guru teach so much calculative mentality to his devotees? How can we calculate the karma of a kid to be adopted and how can we calculate our own karma… and compare them and measure them and then chose? I don’t see it as a very bright idea to be followed. Developing so calculative minds regarding something so hidden, mystical and untraceable as karma seems to me a very bad direction. Who can say if the karma of that child is not to be adopted and raised by devotees and become a pure devotee? And even if not, who can say that the devotees who would adopt it and raise it with love and care will not become pure devotees exactly by doing this?
These 2 devotees followed the advice of this guru not to adopt a child. After few years they divorced and the wife left the community together with her ill child and dedicated her life to live and work in a center for ill kids, where her kid was also learning. She barely visits the devotional community. So this was the end of this story. It could be quite different if they would have just adopted one or two kids and dedicate themselves to happily raising them without trying to guess what could possibly be the karma of the kids…
I liked very much what prabhu Madan Gopal had written in the topic “The words of Srila Prabhupada on women” – that “What is really required is "self-effulgent" acaryas and freedom of faith.” Indeed such self-effulgent acaryas can be the real public representatives for the real beautiful face of GV, and they should be extremely cautious about every word they say and every advice they give, because they can throw a shadow on vashnava philosophy and line.
In this line of thoughts I would like to share with you what I have seen being practiced by a Guru and it came out to give incredibly good results! We all know that many times when somebody wants to join the devotees, this provokes serious opposition by family, parents and partners in life (for the married aspiring devotees). Most Gurus just ignore this and invite the devotee to join leaving it up to him how to solve the family issues and many devotees solve these issues very drastically, leaving behind so many enemies to the GV. What this Guru is doing is, that he always considers the family situation and involvements of the aspiring disciple and invites his/her parents for a conversation. He accepts them very openly and warmheartedly and has a long conversation with them as long as necessary… usually for many hours. Till now I did not see even one parent leaving his room without being completely relaxed and assured that his child is in very good hands and surrounding and is on a good path! It was very touching when a diplomat ambassador came to meet Maharaj and after speaking with him for hours (since his boy was going to join living in the ashram and continue to study diplomacy in the University) he left Maharaja’s room with a bright smile on his face and told to his son in front of few other devotees “you should listen to your Guru, he is a very wise person!”. When Maharaj was asked for initiation from a married person, he always did everything possible to assure that this will not be a problem for the other partner. He went personally to the husband/wife and begged them to give him permission and blessing to give initiation to their partner. Can you imagine? And this was always so heart-melting and always highly appreciated by people, seeing in the devotees and Guru not enemies, but real friends. I can see that later they continue having very good attitude towards the devotees and come closer and closer to them, with the tendency of becoming also initiated devotees.
Seeing this gives a lot of joy to my heart because I can see that being so sensitive, merciful and caring makes Maharaj really one of these "self-effulgent" acaryas which the humanity needs so much today.
Please share what is your opinion regarding adoption of a child and please forgive me if my opinion was unreasonably critical towards the guru, who gave opposing advice. Till now I do consider the reasons he mentioned very material considerations and a bad advice to be heard from a spiritual person.
I can see that this has impacted you emotionally, but you have pretty much given all the answers (in the form of questions and arguments) to this that seems to me to be a non-issue from a Gaudiya point of view.
I can see that this has impacted you emotionally, but you have pretty much given all the answers (in the form of questions and arguments) to this that seems to me to be a non-issue from a Gaudiya point of view.
Thank you, Syamasundara Prabhu, but something is an issue if a Guru preaches like this. If you are present there and you hear this advice being given from a Guru to your Godbrother and Godsister, what can you do? Can you imagine stopping him? Can you imagine giving all these arguments on the spot? And now imagine if you are in a female body...
Somehow I was not in the position of doing it, and if I do it it would seem very ugly and out of place.
Yes, it impacted me emotionally because these are my Godbrothers and Godsisters, and because I was feeling so desperately unable to do anything in this situation. Had you ever felt with tight hands when you have to do something and your consciense tells you that you have to do it immediately? But it would have been so much out of vaisnava etiquet! A younger devotee woman objecting publically what a Guru tells as an advice to senior devotees, who accept him as their shiksha guru? Or how much more mean it would have been to talk to them in private after telling them my objections?
Yes, it is a touchy question. Because beyond tattva and siddhanta and opinions even if they are right and correct, there is also vaisnava etiquet, and we do respect the vaisnava etiquet. And beyond the etiquet there are also the feelings of the devotees... so if these Godbothers and Godsisters of mine accept this advice and the arguments of karma involved given by person, who they accept as their shiksha guru, is it right one to intervene in this even if his/her arguments are valid?
As Tripurari Maharaj wrote "the ultimate reality is finally a feeling", and if I point my arguments in that moment, it's not only that I have to enter into a siddhanta and tattva argument with a powerful Guru, but also I will hurt their feelings towards Guru-tattva in this moment, and they are dear to me, they are my Godbrothers and Godsisters.
So what is right to do in such a moment? Respect the feelings of the devotees or defend tattva and siddhanta by breaking the vaishnava etiquet and objecting the validity of an advice given by a guru... in front of his shiksha disciples?
Can I call this a "touchy topic" or not on Tattva-viveka?
My first impressions:
vaisnavera kriya mudra vijñe na bujhaya
The behavior and activity of a Vaisnava are sometimes very mysterious to us. So, it's good that you tried to follow the etiquette, rather than stepping on some lotus feet, and then realizing it was a mistake.
At the same time, you are entitled to your opinion, especially if based on sastra, and I don't see what harm is there in sharing your opinion with people you care about, about an issue that affects you closely.
My first impression when I read about some devotees' stance about adoption was: "What the heck, you preach to the most unknown and disqualified stranger, hoping to change their hearts and lives in a short conversation, but when it comes to shaping the life of a young person and giving him or her the greatest gift on Mahaprabhu's behalf, you step back because that soul wasn't invoked into that body with the proper samskaras and therefore it's varna-sankara?"
Mind you, I also prefer to plant my own seeds, choose the biggest ones, avoid any stress to the roots, rather than buying a seedling in a nursery that has been treated who knows how, but we are talking about something much broader here. We are not about creating the best dharmic society here. We are on a ship that's sinking and we have to fit as many people we can into the emergency boats. Plus, we may be someone's byological parents now, and in the next birth all the relations can be shuffled around, so it's really irrelevant. Nothing happens without a reason, so whatever child would get adopted, would be one with enough sukriti to grow up with devotees. And if it turns out to be a problematic child, then maybe it's the parents who are given a test and see how they can grow up as devotees in that situation. It's all good.
These are basic arguments, but you know, sometimes people get the guru they deserve. At the same time, I don't know this guru, maybe he is fully qualified, and that's the only weird or insensible thing he's ever said, so a higher principle should be applied. Once you have established that a guru is authentic and you surrender to him or her, that person is not a person anymore, but Sri Guru. So, there is more glory in following the instructions of one's guru, even if they sound wrong and even if the guru is proved wrong later on, than questioning or disobeying Sri Guru*.
You don't know that they divorced because of that choice, nor do you know that they would have remained together and happy if they had adopted, and ultimately that's all irrelevant. People are born and have families all the time, birth after birth after birth; the typology may vary, but the entanglement is the same. However, when you do have the unfathomable fortune of finding Sri Guru, whatever step you take to cultivate that relationship is what's going to liberate you, and more, in our case.
Sri Guru manifests as caitya-guru, too; in the heart. Suppose you do the bidding of a guru who turns out to be unqualified. That guru may have to adjust and reassess a couple of things in his or her life, but the dedication and surrender of the sincere disciple does not go wasted in the eyes of the Lord. Sincerity is invincible.
So, the best you can do is to take all these principles to heart yourself, and if necessary apply them once material nature takes its course.
If you had realized these topics (I don't know that you have or not), you could have shared them with your godbrother and sister, when you learned about that odd reply from their guru, and also later, when you saw that their family life was falling apart, but what is not advisable is that you try to control past and future events instead of focusing on how you are to change.
Guru, sadhu, sastra; desa (place), kala (time), patra (circumstance) are not just words, but tools that we can use to sharpen our intelligence and apply in buddhi-yoga (bhakti-yoga).
It sounds like I am talking down to you, but I am actually immensely grateful for every intervention on TV, especially if they spur me to say something, because while doing so, I am preaching to my own mind, and sharpening my own intellect about topics that I would never address otherwise.
*Of course, there is a little scope for that, if done with affection and service attitude. I believe our GM once told about how the personal and intimate servants of Srila Sridhara Maharaja were treating him sometimes, saying things like: "Enough talk, you need to rest now." Similarly, the guru may express a wish, and the disciple may disagree, sometimes in a "Satyabhama" way, sometimes in a more subdued way (was gonna say Rukmini way, but I don't think she would even speak up). And the guru may even appear displeased outside, but if the service attitude is evident, that's really what he cares about.
Even in matters of philosophy. If your godbrother and sister had approached their guru in a submissive way, putting forward their doubts based on their understanding of siddhanta, an authentic guru would be but pleased to see that the disciple is thinking with his or her own head, applying the teaching and feeling things, he might change his original position about a certain issue, or he might explain why he thinks that's the best course of action. So many possibilities. Vaisnava dealings are very intricate and multileveled.