I am in the middle of studying Bg's catuhsloka. I am using for that Guru Maharaja's purports, and Srila Prabhupada's and BR Sridhara Maharaja's as well. In Guru Maharaja's purport I have found the following statement:
"Thus he is personally involved in removing the ignorance of only his devotees, and only in their hearts does he personally dwell, witnessing their trails and tribulations life after life. As his devotees search for him everywhere, begging from door to door on his behalf, suffering ridicule, and shedding tears for him, he is aware of all these things. He knows the trouble they take to come to him, and it is difficult for him to bear."
I take it, that it is spoken of devotees who are still conditioned; sadhakas, not siddhas (Maharaja uses words like tribulations, ignorance, trails, trouble). So when exactly Krishna replace Paramatma in our hearts? When are we starting to be devotees who deserve his presence inside us? Does it happen when we are still conditioned (from the above quote the answer seems to be positive)? What is the main factor that decides about it? Is he already personally witnessing the tribulations that for example I have to go trough?
GM writes about this in Siksastakam in verse 4. Thats when Mahaprabhu tells Paramatma he does not want any material thing (i.e. anything Paramatma has to offer) and thus tells him to "get out!" as GM sometimes puts it. Then with the second "isvare" in the verse he is praying to Krsna. That verse corresponds with ruci, so it is ruci where the devotee's ista-deva replaces the Paramatma. I suppose because nistha is attachment to the practice of bhakti it does not displace Paramatma, whereas ruci is attachment to the object of bhakti, so that object will be drawn towards us.
As far as hearing our prayers, GM says in siksastakam that again it is not until ruci that the sadhaka's prayers are intense enough to draw his attention. But Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu hear our prayers, so there is no need to worry!
Some of what GM wrote in that purport seems to come from the following excerpt from Srila Sridhara Maharaja's "Loving Search for the Lost Servant" Its so nice:
"In Brhad-Bhagavatamrta, it is written that once, as Krsna and the cows were returning from the Vrndavana forest at the end of the day, a boy had just attained spiritual emancipation and entered Vrndavana as a cowherd boy (sakhya rasa). Seeing His long lost servant, Krsna embraced him and both of them fainted in ecstasy.
All of Krsna's other cowherd friends were astounded, thinking, "What is this! Krsna has lost His senses by embracing this newcomer? How is it possible!" Then, as all of the cowherd boys looked on astonished, Balarama came to Krsna's relief and somehow managed to rouse Him.
Then Krsna addressed His friend with great affection: "Why did you stay away? Why have you been living away from home for so long? How was it possible for you? How could you bear My separation? You left Me, and you have been passing lives after lives without Me? Still, I know what trouble you took to return to Me. You searched for Me everywhere, and went to beg from house to house, and you were chastised by many, ridiculed by many, and you shed tears for Me. I know all these things. I was with you. And now, after great trouble, you have again come back to Me." In this way, Krsna addressed His long lost servant and welcomed him.
And when Krsna returned home, He took the newcomer by His side to take prasadam. In this way, a new recruit is earnestly welcomed by Krsna Himself.
So the Lord's search for His lost servants is a loving search; it is not ordinary, but from the heart."
Thanks Nitaisundara. Yes, I recognized the inspiration coming from "Loving Search for the Lost Servant". This is one of the most beatiful descriptions of Krishna's feelings towards sadhakas I've ever seen.
Soon I have to go trough "Sri Siksastakam" again. Maybe this time I will get little bit more then the last time.
Then Krsna addressed His friend with great affection: "Why did you stay away? Why have you been living away from home for so long? How was it possible for you? How could you bear My separation? You left Me, and you have been passing lives after lives without Me? Still, I know what trouble you took to return to Me. You searched for Me everywhere, and went to beg from house to house, and you were chastised by many, ridiculed by many, and you shed tears for Me. I know all these things. I was with you. And now, after great trouble, you have again come back to Me." In this way, Krsna addressed His long lost servant and welcomed him.
And when Krsna returned home, He took the newcomer by His side to take prasadam. In this way, a new recruit is earnestly welcomed by Krsna Himself.
So the Lord's search for His lost servants is a loving search; it is not ordinary, but from the heart."
This is taken by many in ISKCON to be evidence for the fact that the soul was once with krsna in the spiritual world and then left his association.
GM writes about this in Siksastakam in verse 4. Thats when Mahaprabhu tells Paramatma he does not want any material thing (i.e. anything Paramatma has to offer) and thus tells him to "get out!" as GM sometimes puts it. Then with the second "isvare" in the verse he is praying to Krsna. That verse corresponds with ruci, so it is ruci where the devotee's ista-deva replaces the Paramatma. I suppose because nistha is attachment to the practice of bhakti it does not displace Paramatma, whereas ruci is attachment to the object of bhakti, so that object will be drawn towards us.
As far as hearing our prayers, GM says in siksastakam that again it is not until ruci that the sadhaka's prayers are intense enough to draw his attention. But Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu hear our prayers, so there is no need to worry!
Some of what GM wrote in that purport seems to come from the following excerpt from Srila Sridhara Maharaja's "Loving Search for the Lost Servant" Its so nice:
"In Brhad-Bhagavatamrta, it is written that once, as Krsna and the cows were returning from the Vrndavana forest at the end of the day, a boy had just attained spiritual emancipation and entered Vrndavana as a cowherd boy (sakhya rasa). Seeing His long lost servant, Krsna embraced him and both of them fainted in ecstasy.
All of Krsna's other cowherd friends were astounded, thinking, "What is this! Krsna has lost His senses by embracing this newcomer? How is it possible!" Then, as all of the cowherd boys looked on astonished, Balarama came to Krsna's relief and somehow managed to rouse Him.
Then Krsna addressed His friend with great affection: "Why did you stay away? Why have you been living away from home for so long? How was it possible for you? How could you bear My separation? You left Me, and you have been passing lives after lives without Me? Still, I know what trouble you took to return to Me. You searched for Me everywhere, and went to beg from house to house, and you were chastised by many, ridiculed by many, and you shed tears for Me. I know all these things. I was with you. And now, after great trouble, you have again come back to Me." In this way, Krsna addressed His long lost servant and welcomed him.
And when Krsna returned home, He took the newcomer by His side to take prasadam. In this way, a new recruit is earnestly welcomed by Krsna Himself.
So the Lord's search for His lost servants is a loving search; it is not ordinary, but from the heart."
It is in ruci that one becomes attached to bhakti and in asakti that one becomes attached tot he object of bhakti. Thus the removal of Paramatma and the aspiration for one’s ista to enter one’s heart takes place in ruci, and in asakti Nandatanuja enters the space vacated by Paramatma.
Then Krsna addressed His friend with great affection: "Why did you stay away? Why have you been living away from home for so long? How was it possible for you? How could you bear My separation? You left Me, and you have been passing lives after lives without Me? Still, I know what trouble you took to return to Me. You searched for Me everywhere, and went to beg from house to house, and you were chastised by many, ridiculed by many, and you shed tears for Me. I know all these things. I was with you. And now, after great trouble, you have again come back to Me." In this way, Krsna addressed His long lost servant and welcomed him.And when Krsna returned home, He took the newcomer by His side to take prasadam. In this way, a new recruit is earnestly welcomed by Krsna Himself.
So the Lord's search for His lost servants is a loving search; it is not ordinary, but from the heart."
This is taken by many in ISKCON to be evidence for the fact that the soul was once with krsna in the spiritual world and then left his association.
Yes but it is Pujyapada SM paraphrasing Bb, speaking about this section with feeling. Yet he himself clearly stated otherwise with regard to the philosophical issue your raise. There is no question of having ever been with Krsna enlightened in rasananda and then falling from this position. Such thinking derived form descriptions like the above is a gross misunderstanding of the limits of language when it comes to discussing transcendence.
It is in ruci that one becomes attached to bhakti and in asakti that one becomes attached tot he object of bhakti. Thus the removal of Paramatma and the aspiration for one’s ista to enter one’s heart takes place in ruci, and in asakti Nandatanuja enters the space vacated by Paramatma.
Oh, I see. thank you for the clarification. That does make more sense.