Tattva-viveka
SSM and the caitya guru
Gaura-Vijaya Das - February 1, 2009 7:23 am
Jayatirtha Maharaja: I told them that I would not make a personal attempt to take even a paisa from the institution: neither any building, neither any man, neither any other resource. Whatever came to me of its own accord, I would engage that in Krsna's service; but that I wouldn't fight, or litigate for even one paisa of the whole affair .
Srila Sridhara Maharaja: But I cannot sell my independence, my freedom, my spiritual freedom I can't sell for any price. That was your spiritual consciousness, I cannot sell for any price. I must follow my own conscience, caitya guru, the guru within, I can't avoid His dictation, disobey His dictation at any cost. I must maintain His prestige, who is guiding me on behalf of Swami Maharaja.
It is said that the paramatma is no longer within the heart of the practitioner of bhakti in advanced stage. Does SSM refer to krsna or his guru when he talks about his caitya guru or does he talk about paramatma? Is it inappropriate to speak about paramatma if you are a devotee.
In here B.G Narsingha Maharaja speaks about caitya guru as paramatma
The meaning of the words, "Guru is one" are derived from the sanskrit words, 'akhanda-guru-tattva'. This means the undivided (akhanda) principle of the guru-tattva. This akhanda (undivided) guru-tattva manifests in three aspects, namely: caitya-guru, diksa-guru, and siksa-guru respectively. Caitya-guru is the Supersoul within the heart of the living entity. Diksa-guru and siksa-guru are the two kinds of gurus appearing externally as pure devotees of the Supreme Lord. The diksa and siksa-gurus are considered equal manifestations of Krishna because they manifest to take the disciple back to Godhead. The individuality of the diksa and siksa-gurus exists as Vaishnavas but in purpose they are one – they are equal manifestations of Krishna and therefore they are said to be 'one'.
hiksha guruke ta; jani krishnera svarupa
antaryami, bhakta shreshtha ei dui rupa
Sri Caitanya Caritamrita, Adi-lila, 1.47
"One should know the instructing spiritual master to be the Personality of Krishna. Lord Krishna manifests Himself as the Supersoul and as the greatest devotee of the Lord").
As the antaryami (dweller of the heart) He is caitya guru and as the bhakta shreshtha (best devotee)
Similarly Gaur govinda Swami talks accordingly
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. The sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortunate. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it? Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru, in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart.
Is that necessary to make that kind of strong demarcation between paramatma and krsna especially for people who don't have prema yet?
Gaura-Vijaya Das - February 1, 2009 6:11 pm
I was also thinking like Advaita Acarya is guiding us towards CM similarly can't the paramatma guide us towards krsna till bhava bhakti manifests.
Yamuna Dasi - February 5, 2009 10:58 pm
"It is said that the paramatma is no longer within the heart of the practitioner of bhakti in advanced stage."
Who says this and what is it meant by it?
Audarya-lila Dasa - February 5, 2009 11:50 pm
"It is said that the paramatma is no longer within the heart of the practitioner of bhakti in advanced stage."
Who says this and what is it meant by it?
This was a topic of discussion on one of the 'Swami calls' recently. Guru Maharaja mentions this in his Sikshastakam commentary. I don't have it with me but read the verse 'ayi nanda tanuja...' this is the verse where Guru Maharaja comments that Lord Chaitanya is saying good bye to Paramatma and focusing on his Ista devata - Krsna. The point is that as the sadhaka advances he/she moves from a general conception of God as Paramatma to a specific one based around his/her budding sentiment. It is at this time that Paramatma is 'replaced' in the heart by the devotee's cherished form of the Lord. This does not happen based on a conceptual orientation but rather as one reaches the stage of asakti. In the discussion on the phone if memory serves me correctly Guru Maharaja cited a verse from Brahma Samhita as sastra pramana for this idea. There are other places where this idea is discussed as well but not as clearly as in Guru Maharaja's commentary.
Yamuna Dasi - February 7, 2009 1:26 am
Wow!
asakti = ?
These calls of Maharaj, are they being transcribed and if yes where can I find the transcribed texts?
My listening comprehension as a foreigner is ok when live, but when there is a record any smallest noise in it makes it hard for me to understand. 
This rendering of the verse is very rasic.
I've heard such kind of rendering from Sadhu Maharaj about Gita's verse "mam ekam sharanam vraja", that apart from the direct meaning "surrender only to Me" it also can be understood as "surrender to my only One (Radhika) in the mood of Braja". In such level of very rasic reading of the text actually the text can mean both, but one understands this rendering, which corresponds with his/her level of consciousness and also rasa, isn't it?
I also wonder if the Sanskrit text semantically and the words put in the case which is used really mean both at the same time - i.e. does "mam ekam" mean simultanepusly "to Me alone" and "to my only One" or is it rather a purport than a direct meaning?
Gaura-Vijaya Das - February 8, 2009 6:05 pm
I think GM addressed the question today by saying that the internal antaryami who is instrumental in getting a guru for bhakti is actually krsna. Can we understand that krsna is functioning through paramatma in facilitating the coming of the guru when the jiva is ready for the guru?