Tattva-viveka
Bramin thread of Krishna and Balaram
Yamuna Dasi - February 14, 2009 11:56 pm
Why do the deities ot Krishna-Balaram have bramin threads? Aren't they kshatriyas?
Swami - February 15, 2009 12:29 am
Why do the deities ot Krishna-Balaram have bramin threads? Aren't they kshatriyas?
haha, Krsna is a cowherd!! Rama's mother too. So he as well!! All three higher castes received the thread, but KB got it in Mathura of course. I noted that and just considered the thread rope for tying cows! Use you imagination and a little siddhanta.
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 9:14 am
Oh Uncle, my imagination hardly has borders and is quite a wild one. This is why I am trying to draw a coast of my ocean-like imagination and adjust its watch with yours. For example my imagination whispers into my left ear (while by using tattva I am trying to block both my ears for it’s heretic whispers and not always that whisperly bursts) that Braja Krishna-Balaram had put themselves these Brahmin strings on their shoulders to mock the smarta Brahmins of Braja… and of course as you had kindly mentioned, to tie the calfs! And Krishna would certainly use his Brahmin string also to tie up to the tree the stolen saries of the gopies so that not a single sari happens just to drop down and some gopi could with the speed of a lightning grab it and get dressed (alas!)… and… let me stop here!
Oh Uncle, it’s so sweet of you chastising my tattva (siddhanta) level of knowledge while giving me a rasic answer! This just proves once again to me that you are a genuine achitya bheda-abheda uncle! If studying tattva with sweat on the forehead is the way to catch the glimpse the one who has rasa, and if asking silly questions is the way to get that rasa, here I am at Tattva-viveka… ready & eager to do both!
Swami - February 17, 2009 11:39 am
Anyway, those threads were painted on by the sculptor. I plan to take them off.
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 12:13 pm
Anyway, those threads were painted on by the sculptor. I plan to take them off.
Oh nooo!
You just gave us a drop of rasa and now due to some tattva reasons (and my silly question) you are ready to take it away? 
Who cares about tattva when relishing rasa? Who cares that Krishna-Balaram got their Brahminical threads in Mathura as described by Shastra if maybe the divinity of some secret rasic lila of theirs had been given a hint of through the hand of the sculptor who had made these deities and had put Brahminical strings on them? Those who can read hints and search deeper for the divinity will catch the hint (as you did) and maybe reveal it to few. The rest will not know but most probably will also be not that silly to ask "why do Krishna-Balaram wear Brahminical threads?”. Even if somebody would ask this, there always could be given a tattvic answer for it - as you have mentioned that all the three higher casts received the thread... or that Mathura Krishna-Balaram did have Brahminical threads. It would be very rare a person (sa mahatma sudurlabha!) who would have told you after receiving such an answer: "but these are Braja Krishna-Balaram because they are your deities and you would never ever take Mathura Krishna-Balaram to worship because it's not your mood!" If someone is that smart and that deeply knowing you, he/she would have never say it! He/she would take out his/her devotional tattva notebook and will write it down there "Krishna & Balarama have Brahminical threads because all the three higher casts received the thread. Period." while smiling inwardly at how anxiously you are hiding the rasa covering it with tattva... as most of the Gurus in our parampara did...
Please Uncle, don't do it! Don't take off the Brahminical strings of Krishna-Balaram, they might need them! Leave the hint for rasa there where it is and cover it with tattva if this is the way of our sampradaya.
The deities can always be dressed so that only the pujary and few others will know about their Brahminical strings. And for the abisheks anyway everybody will be so extatic, that no questions will be raised... and if raised, you know what to answer and I am sure you can find even more tattvic answers for those who search for tattva to satisfy their quest and still keep the secrecy of rasa for those who would remain thirsty without it.
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 12:57 pm
Some years ago Mahaprabhu came to our Bulgarian small temple in the form of deity. Bhakti Kamala Tirtha Maharaj left the deity secretly to one of the matadjis here (mother Yashoda) to prepare some clothes for him for the upcoming official appearance of his in our ashram. So she did and she is one of the best devotees in the word who I know and definitely the best deity clothes maker! I took the deity and the new set of clothes and went to Hungary to show them to Maharaj for last checking. Mahaprabhu had got a marvelous set of clothes and a turban, a real miniature masterpiece of architecturally built tower of beauty and art put together, crowned with a… peacock feather! When Maharaj had seen it, he told me that this is a mistake because feather is the attribute of Braja Krishna and not of Mahaprabhu and has to be removed! I’ve tried to argue with him (as usually) but without any success (as usually) telling him that since Mahaprabhu was preaching about Krishna, he had him over his head allegorically said so that the feather could remain as a memoriam for this… or… that anyway Mahaprabhu is Braja Krishna himself so the feather is exactly at it’s place… or… that anyway Mahaprabhu was wearing simple sannyas clothes and no crowns or turbans, but still we dress him and worship him like this so why not a peacock feather… or that his divine identity of being Radha-Krishna had been revealed through the hand of mother Yashoda and this is so beautiful and mystical… etc. etc. At the end I had been given a set of scissors, needle and some strings and Maharaj pointed me the door! I have sit completely furious and ready to burst (either in tears or in anger… or in both!) with the scissors, having to remove the feather and then repair the turban. Oh God, why me?! Why should I have to do this service when I even don’t agree with it?!
So I looked carefully at the turban and how it was made and was stunned – it was like a labyrinth of nearly invisible stitches where no one could ever find where was the beginning and where is the end. At the same time it was completely obvious that if I would dare to cut any stitch (if it would have been at all possible since as I’ve mentioned they were nearly invisible and no scissors could ever cut only the string without cutting also the cloth) the whole masterpiece construction would fall apart and would have been destroyed. OK, but service is service even when it seems impossible to complete… and unpleasant as well! So I decided that I will not cut anything but rather will just pull out the feather (together with my heart!) and it will be presented to Tirtha Maharaj so that he could enjoy it… if he can! But here came another surprise – of course every feather’s edge (I mean the hard and sharp side of it) is very smooth so I supposed it would be easy to just pull it out but… no way! No matter how much I was pulling it and shaking it and twisting it, that peacock feather just stayed there and did not have any intention to let me pull it out.
Even more angry (if that was at all possible) I rushed into Maharaja’s room and gave him the turban nearly shouting: “You take it out if you think it’s right and possible!” For my greatest delight he also was not able to do it no matter how hard he tried, and he did try it hard! At the end he gave me the turban and told me: “OK, just twist the feather and fold it backwards and stitch it there, so that it could not be seen.” This was other thing and I was completely happy to do it! And secretly spread the news after to all who would have been able to appreciate the story.
So these were the first clothes of our Mahaprabhu and that was his first turban and in these clothes and with this turban he appeared on our altar. No matter how many times he was jumping into the waters of Yamuna river trying to block his ears or end his life whenever his devotees were telling him that they know that he’s Braja Krishna himself, the Truth had been revealed… and still remained hidden…
All the next turbans of his were without a peacock feather, but that first one told us all the story and remained as it is – with a peacock feather twisted, folded and stitched at the back so that it’s practically invisible for the eyes of anybody else except the pujari… and those who dare to come that close to Mahaprabhu to offer him their service…
Swami - February 17, 2009 3:24 pm
It is true that we often distinguish between bhava/rasa and tattva. However, there is also a tattva of rasa, rasa tattva. Regarding the threads, in consideration of rasa tattva Krsna does not wear a thread in Vraja as a kishore or earlier. It is Mathura that he wears it, Mathura and Dvaraka. However, if the deity comes with such a thread, one may have to think creatively, but ideally it would be best if it were not there. It is the artist's mistake and he should be corrected.
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 6:44 pm
If I give some valid arguments would you change your mind and leave the Brahminical strings of the deities as they are?
Nitaisundara Das - February 17, 2009 7:24 pm
Good luck! Guru Maharaja knows what he's talking about 
Have you seen the picture?
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 9:03 pm
Good luck!
Have you seen the picture?
No cousin, I haven't seen it, thanks for showing it to me!
Is this Audaria? My God, what beauty!
This should be Tripurari Maharaj?
PS. Thanks for the "Good luck!". I must be a lucky one if my cousin wishes me good luck even without knowing each other in person... yet!
Nitaisundara Das - February 17, 2009 9:24 pm
Yes that is Guru Maharaja, but in Madhuvan Costa Rica.
Yamuna Dasi - February 17, 2009 9:29 pm
Is it only for brahmacharies there?
Madan Gopal Das - February 18, 2009 12:57 am
If it is, Calacikana will have a rough time... But hey, if he can have a brahmin thread, I guess he can pretend to be a brahmacari.
Yamuna Dasi - February 18, 2009 5:49 am
Seems that there you have some local lila... what are the devotees without lila!
Anyway glad to hear that it's not ony for brahmacharies there. Even the thought that I could go there makes me feel happy!
Madan Gopal Das - February 18, 2009 3:35 pm
Seems that there you have some local lila... what are the devotees without lila!
I am the only one laughing at my jokes probably.
Sorry for the village talk (gramya katha). This is cowherd village talk though. There is local lila going on there at Madhuvan, and I was referring to Calacikana who is not a devotee, but the name of the Krsna deity that you are speaking about in this thread.
Babhru Das - February 18, 2009 4:09 pm
Sorry--I thought it was funny, but I thought it better to keep my posting count from growing too fast.
Yamuna Dasi - February 18, 2009 5:08 pm
I am the only one laughing at my jokes probably.
Sorry for the village talk (gramya katha). This is cowherd village talk though. There is local lila going on there at Madhuvan, and I was referring to Calacikana who is not a devotee, but the name of the Krsna deity that you are speaking about in this thread. :Just Kidding:
Oh...
I was indeed surprised that you would make such a joke with some devotee aspiring to be a brahmachari, but I thought it must be some married devotee this Calacikana prabhu. 
Nitaisundara Das - February 18, 2009 6:46 pm
Sri Krsna said:
krsneti brahmacarity uktva
just say that Krsna is a brahmachari
-gopala tapani -uttara tapani 5
Yamuna Dasi - February 18, 2009 8:04 pm
Sri Krsna said:just say that Krsna is a brahmachari
-gopala tapani -uttara tapani 5
Is he?
Yamuna Dasi - February 19, 2009 10:10 am
Sri Krsna said:just say that Krsna is a brahmachari
-gopala tapani -uttara tapani 5
Some explanation please?
Syama Gopala Dasa - February 19, 2009 5:16 pm
Buy the book here: http://www.swami.org/store/gopala-tapani-upanisad.html
Nitaisundara Das - February 19, 2009 6:34 pm
Yamuna Dasi - February 19, 2009 7:07 pm
Buy the book here: http://www.swami.org/store/gopala-tapani-upanisad.html
Are you responding in this manner while preaching and a question is asked to you?
If so TV becomes quite useless since every question could be "responded" with "buy this and this book".
No sweetness in such an answer... very softly said. And I've never heard any Guru in our lineage responding like this. Thanks God.
I've read the quote you gave but my question refers to how Krishna is a brahmachary if he has both lovers and wives?
Yamuna Dasi - February 19, 2009 7:09 pm
Vrindaranya, are you planning to put Gopala-tapani Upanisad for purchase in PDF format?
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 21, 2009 11:01 am
I have a pdf done (same layout as the printed version), but I haven't made it available on the store because Guru Maharaja wants a new color version. If you would like a copy, you can make a donation ($12) here:
http://swami.org/store/asub_paypal.php
and I'll send it to you (and later I'll send the color version too).
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Yamuna Dasi - February 21, 2009 4:59 pm
I have a pdf done (same layout as the printed version), but I haven't made it available on the store because Guru Maharaja wants a new color version. If you would like a copy, you can make a donation ($12) here:
http://swami.org/store/asub_paypal.php
and I'll send it to you (and later I'll send the color version too).
Ys,
Vrindaranya
OK, thank you, I would like a copy.
I would like also to buy in PDF format if possible:
1. Siksastakam of Sri Caitanya
2. Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and Philosophy
3. The Joy of Self
4. Evolution of Theism
Do you have them for sale in PDF format and what are the prices. It would be easier to make one time payment through the link you sent me for all these books in PDF, so I need your confirmation if available in PDF and what is the price for each one.
Notes:
1. For this book "On the Outside Looking In" there is no information given at the web site (as given for the other books) of how many pages and what cover it has.
2. Same regarding "Our Affectionate Guardians"
3. Same about "Sri Guru and His Grace"
4. Same about "The Golden Volcano of Divine Love"
5. Same about "The Little Book of Bhakti Yoga"
6. Same about "Waves of Devotion"
7. "The Joy of Self" and "Ancient Wisdom for Modern Ignoranse" are not in the list of books available for purchase. Are they out of print?
Ys
Yamuna d.
Babhru Das - February 21, 2009 5:43 pm
Yamuna, I'm not at Audarya now, but I think I remember reading that Joy of Self (and maybe Ancient Wisdom, as well) is out of print. You can find Waves of Devotion at http://www.wavesofdevotion.com/published-work/.
Yamuna Dasi - February 21, 2009 7:32 pm
Thank you Babhru, but I was not searching to buy "Waves of Devotion" but saying that for these 6 books:
1. "On the Outside Looking In"
2. "Our Affectionate Guardians"
3. "Sri Guru and His Grace"
4. "The Golden Volcano of Divine Love"
5. "The Little Book of Bhakti Yoga"
6. "Waves of Devotion"
which are listed for sale at www.swami.org is missing information regarding number of pages and what kind of cover they have, so that some devotee who has access can add this information there for their better presentation.
Babhru Das - February 21, 2009 8:44 pm
Oh. Sorry.
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 21, 2009 8:59 pm
OK, thank you, I would like a copy.
I would like also to buy in PDF format if possible:
1. Siksastakam of Sri Caitanya
2. Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and Philosophy
3. The Joy of Self
4. Evolution of Theism
Do you have them for sale in PDF format and what are the prices. It would be easier to make one time payment through the link you sent me for all these books in PDF, so I need your confirmation if available in PDF and what is the price for each one.
Siksastakam pdf is already complete ($10).
I can do the Gita ($15) and Joy and Self ($3), but I will need about a week because I am in the midst of deadline to get a website done. The Evolution of Theism isn't our publication. It was published by Narasingha Maharaja's group. I'm not sure if they have pdfs of their books, but I don't think so. I'll post when the Gita and Joy of Self are available.
Yamuna Dasi - February 21, 2009 9:59 pm
OK, I've completed the form from the link you gave above - 40 USD for the 4 books. Send pls to my email what is ready and what is not when it is.
By the way this form was not even secured, and I had to send through it my credit card information, it's not a good idea. Don't you use secured online credit card charging by using a merchant account? This way of requesting credit card information through unsecured line is very risky. Pls do something about it.
Yamuna Dasi - February 21, 2009 10:03 pm
Glad to be your first PDF customer! :Batting Eyelashes:
Swami - February 21, 2009 11:52 pm
Yamuna,
Please email Syama Gopala with any suggestions or complaints about the store. This discussion is no suitable for the forum.
Swami
Yamuna Dasi - February 22, 2009 6:49 am
Sure, sorry Maharaj.
Syama Gopala prabhu, please email me, I don't know your email address in order to contact you via email, your inbox here in the forum is full and any attempt to contact you by sending you a personal message ends with:
"This message can not be sent because the recipient's inbox is full.
This personal message has not been sent."
Syama Gopala Dasa - February 22, 2009 7:35 pm
Sure, sorry Maharaj.
Syama Gopala prabhu, please email me, I don't know your email address in order to contact you via email, your inbox here in the forum is full and any attempt to contact you by sending you a personal message ends with:
"This message can not be sent because the recipient's inbox is full.
This personal message has not been sent."
You can email me through TV.
The secure form is https://www.swami.org/store/asub_paypal.php or https://swami.c4.ixwebhosting.com/store/asub_paypal.php.