Tattva-viveka
Book Reviews
Nitaisundara Das - April 3, 2009 3:07 am
Post here to discuss books that might be good to review for Harmonist.
Nitaisundara Das - April 4, 2009 4:26 am
I got this idea from Gaura Vijaya;s mention of Ram Dass. A few years back he did a book, "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita". That may be interesting. Has anyone read it?
I remember when I was really young I would try to read Be Here Now while intoxicated thinking it would be like some mystical puzzle 
Eventually I came back later and could understand. It has Vedanta but lot's of other things too. It would be interesting to hear his most recent thoughts.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 4, 2009 4:37 am
There is one more book "Rational Mysticism" by John Morgan which seems interesting. I read a few excerpts from it which were good.
It is a confluence of science, psychology, philosophy and what not. Atleast it claims to be. I read his dialogue with Smith which comes in the google book search and it is pretty interesting. Has anybody read the book?
http://books.google.com/books?id=7dYV9UJszlUC
Rational Mysticism
By John Horgan
Horgan visits and interviews a fascinating Who's Who of experts, including theologian Huston Smith; Andrew Newberg, explorer of the brain's "God module"; Ken Wilber, a transpersonal psychologist and Buddhist; psychedelic pharmacologist Alexander Shulgin; Oxford-educated psychologist and Zen practitioner Susan Blackmore; and postmodern shaman Terence McKenna. Horgan also explores the effects of reputed enlightenment-inducing techniques such as fasting, meditation, prayer, sensory deprivation, and drug trips. In his lively and thought-provoking inquiry, Horgan finds surprising connections among seemingly disparate disciplines, not the least of which is a shared awe of the nature of the universe.
Swami - April 4, 2009 1:19 pm
There is one more book "Rational Mysticism" by John Morgan which seems interesting. I read a few excerpts from it which were good.It is a confluence of science, psychology, philosophy and what not. Atleast it claims to be. I read his dialogue with Smith which comes in the google book search and it is pretty interesting. Has anybody read the book?
http://books.google.com/books?id=7dYV9UJszlUC
Rational Mysticism
By John Horgan
Horgan visits and interviews a fascinating Who's Who of experts, including theologian Huston Smith; Andrew Newberg, explorer of the brain's "God module"; Ken Wilber, a transpersonal psychologist and Buddhist; psychedelic pharmacologist Alexander Shulgin; Oxford-educated psychologist and Zen practitioner Susan Blackmore; and postmodern shaman Terence McKenna. Horgan also explores the effects of reputed enlightenment-inducing techniques such as fasting, meditation, prayer, sensory deprivation, and drug trips. In his lively and thought-provoking inquiry, Horgan finds surprising connections among seemingly disparate disciplines, not the least of which is a shared awe of the nature of the universe.
I looked this book over last week and would not recommend it.
Swami - April 4, 2009 1:24 pm
Paul Davies seems interesting. I looked at this book and I think it is a good one to review for someone with a science background. Gaura-vijya . . .
Gopala Dasa - April 4, 2009 1:34 pm
Just came across this this morning. It's a new book, so full reviews are scarce. But the publisher's summary is interesting.
Naming Infinity: A True Story of Religious Mysticism and Mathematical Creativity
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/GRANAM.html
In 1913, Russian imperial marines stormed an Orthodox monastery at Mt. Athos, Greece, to haul off monks engaged in a dangerously heretical practice known as Name Worshipping. Exiled to remote Russian outposts, the monks and their mystical movement went underground. Ultimately, they came across Russian intellectuals who embraced Name Worshipping—and who would achieve one of the biggest mathematical breakthroughs of the twentieth century, going beyond recent French achievements.
Loren Graham and Jean-Michel Kantor take us on an exciting mathematical mystery tour as they unravel a bizarre tale of political struggles, psychological crises, sexual complexities, and ethical dilemmas. At the core of this book is the contest between French and Russian mathematicians who sought new answers to one of the oldest puzzles in math: the nature of infinity. The French school chased rationalist solutions. The Russian mathematicians, notably Dmitri Egorov and Nikolai Luzin—who founded the famous Moscow School of Mathematics—were inspired by mystical insights attained during Name Worshipping. Their religious practice appears to have opened to them visions into the infinite—and led to the founding of descriptive set theory.
The men and women of the leading French and Russian mathematical schools are central characters in this absorbing tale that could not be told until now. Naming Infinityis a poignant human interest story that raises provocative questions about science and religion, intuition and creativity.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 4, 2009 4:39 pm
Paul Davies seems interesting. I looked at this book and I think it is a good one to review for someone with a science background. Gaura-vijya . . .
Actually Paul Davies can be interesting. I will look it up. Svarupa Damodar Maharaja had some discussions with him.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 4, 2009 4:40 pm
Just came across this this morning. It's a new book, so full reviews are scarce. But the publisher's summary is interesting.
Naming Infinity: A True Story of Religious Mysticism and Mathematical Creativity
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/GRANAM.html
In 1913, Russian imperial marines stormed an Orthodox monastery at Mt. Athos, Greece, to haul off monks engaged in a dangerously heretical practice known as Name Worshipping. Exiled to remote Russian outposts, the monks and their mystical movement went underground. Ultimately, they came across Russian intellectuals who embraced Name Worshipping—and who would achieve one of the biggest mathematical breakthroughs of the twentieth century, going beyond recent French achievements.
Loren Graham and Jean-Michel Kantor take us on an exciting mathematical mystery tour as they unravel a bizarre tale of political struggles, psychological crises, sexual complexities, and ethical dilemmas. At the core of this book is the contest between French and Russian mathematicians who sought new answers to one of the oldest puzzles in math: the nature of infinity. The French school chased rationalist solutions. The Russian mathematicians, notably Dmitri Egorov and Nikolai Luzin—who founded the famous Moscow School of Mathematics—were inspired by mystical insights attained during Name Worshipping. Their religious practice appears to have opened to them visions into the infinite—and led to the founding of descriptive set theory.
The men and women of the leading French and Russian mathematical schools are central characters in this absorbing tale that could not be told until now. Naming Infinityis a poignant human interest story that raises provocative questions about science and religion, intuition and creativity.
This seems interesting too.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 4, 2009 6:24 pm
Has anybody read Point Counter Point by Aldous Huxley.
I read an excerpt which was pretty intriguing.
Here it is,
Excerpt from Point Counter Point by Aldous Huxley:
Chapter VI: From Philip Quarles’s Notebook
“Being with Rampion rather depresses me; for he makes me see what a great gulf
separates the knowledge of the obvious from the actual living of it. And oh, the
difficulties of crossing that gulf! I perceive now that the real charm of the intellectual
life—the life devoted to erudition, to scientific research, to philosophy, to esthetics, to
criticism—is its easiness. It’s the substitution of simple intellectual schemata for the
complexities of reality; of still and formal death for the bewildering movements of life.
It’s incomparably easier to know a lot, say, about the history of art and to have profound
ideas about metaphysics and sociology, than to know personally and intuitively a lot
about one’s fellows and to have satisfactory relations with one’s friends, one’s wife and
children. Living’s much more difficult than Sanskrit or chemistry or economics. The
intellectual life is child’s play; which is why intellectuals tend to become children—and
then imbeciles and finally, as the political and industrial history of the last few centuries
clearly demonstrates, homicidal lunatics and wild beasts. The repressed functions don’t
die; they deteriorate, they fester, they revert to primitiveness. But meanwhile it’s much
easier to be an intellectual child or lunatic or beast than a harmonious adult man. That’s
why (among other reasons) there’s such a demand for higher education. The rush to
books and universities is like the rush to the public house. People want to drown their
realization of the difficulties of living properly in this grotesque contemporary world,
they want to forget their own deplorable inefficiency as artists in life. Some drown their
sorrows in alcohol, but still more drown them in books and artistic dilettantism; some try
to forget themselves in fornication, dancing, movies, listening-in, others in lectures and
scientific hobbies. The books and lectures are better sorrow drowners than drink and
fornication; they leave no headache, none of that despairing post coitum triste feeling.”
“Till quite recently, I must confess, I took learning and philosophy and science—
all the activities that are magniloquently lumped under the title of “The Search for
Truth”—very seriously. I regarded the Search for Truth as the highest of human tasks
and the Searchers as the noblest of men. But in the last year or so I have begun to see
that this famous Search for Truth is just an amusement, a distraction like any other, a
rather refined and elaborate substitution for genuine living; and that Truth Searchers
become just as silly, infantile and corrupt in their way as the boozers, the pure esthetes,
the businessmen, the Good-Timers in theirs. I also perceived that the pursuit of Truth is
just a polite name for the intellectual’s favorite pastime of substituting simple and
therefore false abstractions for the living complexities of reality. But seeking Truth is
much easier than learning the art of integral living (in which, of course, Truth Seeking
will take its due and proportionate place along with other amusements, like skittles and
mountain climbing). Which explains, though it doesn’t justify, my continued and
excessive indulgence in the vices of informative reading and abstract generalization.
Shall I ever have the strength of mind to break myself of these indolent habits of
intellectualism and devote my energies to the more serious and difficult task of living
integrally? And even if I did try to break these habits, shouldn’t I feel that heredity was
at the bottom of them and that I was congenitally incapable of living wholly and
harmoniously?”
Nitaisundara Das - April 5, 2009 3:08 am
Wow that naming infinity sounds like a hollywood movie, very intriguing. It might be the kind of book that even if we dont publish a review for some time, it would still be good.
The Huxley book sounds like one that can definitely be used to hightlight some spiritual points in the context of a review.
Atmananda Dasa - April 7, 2009 7:13 pm
Radhanath Swami has a new book out called The Journey Home. It is published by Mandala. I am expecting to get my hands on a copy soon and I would like to write a review for this book, after I read it.
Vrindavandas - April 7, 2009 10:42 pm
A friend of mine who is a disciple of his already got the book from India and says it is fantastic. I can find out if there are any copies floating around here in Los Angeles. I just got a copy of "The Glories and Pastimes of Srimati Radharani" by Bhakti Purusottama Swami, I have been reading it every day and it is quite wonderful.
Atmananda Dasa - April 8, 2009 12:27 am
A friend of mine who is a disciple of his already got the book from India and says it is fantastic. I can find out if there are any copies floating around here in Los Angeles. I just got a copy of "The Glories and Pastimes of Srimati Radharani" by Bhakti Purusottama Swami, I have been reading it every day and it is quite wonderful.
Thanks for the offer. We will be getting them here in our local shop in a few days.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 20, 2009 1:44 am
Thanks for the offer. We will be getting them here in our local shop in a few days.
There is already a review by Satyaraja Prabhu out which is pretty insightful.
http://bhakticollective.com/2009/04/09/boo...american-swami/
These particular sentences were good to bring positive attention to Vaishnavism.
These first autobiographical books, as listed above, focused on Shaktas or the neo-Hinduism associated with Advaita Vedanta, or on yogis, as in the case of Yogananda. For a Christian hagiography, Merton was decidedly more modern in his approach. Biographical tales of Yaqui shaman mysticism and of Neem Karoli Baba, both, were tinged by the psychedelic mode of the ‘60s and by generic Hinduism. Agehananda was a Dasanami sannyasi, following the philosophical conclusions of Shankara.
The next generation belongs to The Journey Home. Like its predecessors, it offers readers an intimate look into a true seeker’s life, and into the tradition he ultimately chose to follow. But what is unique here is that the tradition of choice is Vaishnavism. The books mentioned above, and so many others like them, invariably sidestep the Vaishnava tradition.
Hari Bhakti - May 1, 2009 2:35 pm
I just read this review from the New York Times, and immediately thought, I wonder what a reviewer for the Harmonist might have to say...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/books/review/Mishra-t.html
Bhrigu - May 1, 2009 5:24 pm
Probably not too much good, I suspect... The same applies to this Pankaj Mishra; recently read a book of his and it was extremely biased against Hinduism.
Swami - May 1, 2009 8:57 pm
I find the paragraph from the review below pointed out by Hari-bhakti to be questionable. It seems clear that there was a fairly unified version of Hinduism long before the British occupation of India. The tradition of samprdayas and the sense that one's lineage needed to be supportable from sastra to be viable was prevailing within Hindusim during the time of Sri Caitanaya. There is more about this review to be said as well, but Doniger's book is truyly a tome, and perhaps a review of it would be useful, if not a lengthly project.
As Wendy Doniger, a scholar of Indian religions at the University of Chicago, explains in her staggeringly comprehensive book, the British Indologists who sought to tame India’s chaotic polytheisms had a “Protestant bias in favor of scripture.” In “privileging” Sanskrit over local languages, she writes, they created what has proved to be an enduring impression of a “unified Hinduism.” And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries — has continued to find many takers among semi-Westernized Hindus suffering from an inferiority complex vis-à-vis the apparently more successful and organized religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Gopala Dasa - May 1, 2009 9:59 pm
I find the paragraph from the review below pointed out by Hari-bhakti to be questionable. It seems clear that there was a fairly unified version of Hinduism long before the British occupation of India. The tradition of samprdayas and the sense that one's lineage needed to be supportable from sastra to be viable was prevailing within Hindusim during the time of Sri Caitanaya. There is more about this review to be said as well, but Doniger's book is truyly a tome, and perhaps a review of it would be useful, if not a lengthly project.As Wendy Doniger, a scholar of Indian religions at the University of Chicago, explains in her staggeringly comprehensive book, the British Indologists who sought to tame India’s chaotic polytheisms had a “Protestant bias in favor of scripture.” In “privileging” Sanskrit over local languages, she writes, they created what has proved to be an enduring impression of a “unified Hinduism.” And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries — has continued to find many takers among semi-Westernized Hindus suffering from an inferiority complex vis-à-vis the apparently more successful and organized religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
An irony here is that Doniger made her mark (and in the opinion of many, including me, an overrated one) by translating Vedic and classical Sanskrit works such as Rg Veda, Laws of Manu, Kama Sutra etc. Is this not the "Protestant bias" apparently criticized in her latest work?
Citta Hari Dasa - May 5, 2009 3:13 pm
Yesterday in the book store I came across Green Hell by Steve Milloy, who also runs a website called junkscience.com. In skimming through it became clear that he considers the trend toward governmental regulations in order to be more green as an infringement on our personal rights. He seems to take it as an affront to the American Way of Life if we are asked to downsize our overconsumption in any way. I thought this might be good to review as a counterpoint to the others we're doing.
Guru-nistha Das - May 16, 2009 5:11 pm
Here's a book that might be worth reviewing and giving a Gaudiya slant on the whole idea of the left/right brain dichotomy and the relationship between the brain, the mind and the self (no small task, eh?):
Jill Bolte Taylor: My Stroke of Insight
Her TED video was posted on TV some time ago but she also wrote a book about her experiences of a brain stroke.
Prahlad Das - May 16, 2009 5:19 pm
Here's a book that might be worth reviewing and giving a Gaudiya slant on the whole idea of the left/right brain dichotomy and the relationship between the brain, the mind and the self (no small task, eh?):Jill Bolte Taylor: My Stroke of Insight
Her TED video was posted on TV some time ago but she also wrote a book about her experiences of a brain stroke.
When I watched the TED video, I did a little research on Mrs. Taylor. It seems her theory is outdated in the scientific community with the left/right brain dichotomy theories.
Swami - May 16, 2009 7:44 pm
When I watched the TED video, I did a little research on Mrs. Taylor. It seems her theory is outdated in the scientific community with the left/right brain dichotomy theories.
How's that?
Prahlad Das - May 16, 2009 7:57 pm
How's that?
The analogies that Jill used were that of parallel and serial type processors for the right and left hemispheres of the brain (not in any particular order). I can find the places where I've read it, but in reviewing her, I was linked to places that indicate the majority of contemporary neurological science don't feel the brain actually operates in this way with the serial and parallel sides.
Swami - May 16, 2009 8:47 pm
The analogies that Jill used were that of parallel and serial type processors for the right and left hemispheres of the brain (not in any particular order). I can find the places where I've read it, but in reviewing her, I was linked to places that indicate the majority of contemporary neurological science don't feel the brain actually operates in this way with the serial and parallel sides.
I do not think that this fact (?) sheds a negative light on her book. It was a NY Times bestseller and she was listed as one the 100 most influential people of the year in 2008.
Guru-nistha Das - May 17, 2009 12:30 am
I do not think that this fact (?) sheds a negative light on her book. It was a NY Times bestseller and she was listed as one the 100 most influential people of the year in 2008.
What I found interesting was that her description of a certain physiologically caused state of mind was so similar to descriptions of deep meditation and mystical experiences. In a way her experience alone is enough to write an interesting review. Is the state of deep mediation and samadhi just a learned skill to effect one's brain in a systematic way? What is our argument against reducing mystical experiences into certain functions of the brain? etc..
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 17, 2009 1:22 am
What I found interesting was that her description of a certain physiologically caused state of mind was so similar to descriptions of deep meditation and mystical experiences. In a way her experience alone is enough to write an interesting review. Is the state of deep mediation and samadhi just a learned skill to effect one's brain in a systematic way? What is our argument against reducing mystical experiences into certain functions of the brain? etc..
My premise is the same external effect can be generated by two different internal states. You may get drugs to induce hairs standing on end and tears flowing from the cheek without actually having the true spiritual emotion. The internal state will always be subjective and non-observable. We cannot break this deadlock through empirical testing. Now the question is whether drug induced experience leads to permanent transformation of a person's psyche.
It is a fact that a lot of medicine is developed by mapping activities of the brain to psychological problems and it has been successful to a large extent.
The whole analysis of Dawkins wherein he talks about visions of Krsna as hallucinations similar to drug induced state beg me to ask the question, how the current so called "normal" drug free state is more "true" than the drug induced state or spiritual state. Maybe because it helps us in surviving in material world in the best possible way but there is no conclusive argument saying that our current normal state gives us access to " truth" in nature. It just helps in our survival. Thing in itself will always remain unknown and this problem arises from a fact that we are in a system in which we are both players and observers simultaneously.
I did put an interview and book of Ram das(top of the book review lot) who has a doctorate in psychology and he distinguishes between mystic experience and drug induced state.
Swami - May 17, 2009 1:58 am
What I found interesting was that her description of a certain physiologically caused state of mind was so similar to descriptions of deep meditation and mystical experiences. In a way her experience alone is enough to write an interesting review. Is the state of deep mediation and samadhi just a learned skill to effect one's brain in a systematic way? What is our argument against reducing mystical experiences into certain functions of the brain? etc..
The author's own opinion may be useful. As far as I know she does not think that enlightenment is possible by merely turning off one side of the brain. In fact her experience, if I am correct, has led her to somewhat of a spiritual crusade. She wants to get back to the best of her stroke without the negatives that were part of it. She experienced a glimpse of new possibilities as one can on some drugs but then gives them up in pursuit of the whole experience that includes a particular lifestyle.
Citta Hari Dasa - May 17, 2009 3:04 am
I saw another book that might make a good review: The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul by Beauregard O'Leary. Gaura Vijaya?
Citta Hari Dasa - May 17, 2009 3:10 am
She experienced a glimpse of new possibilities as one can on some drugs but then gives them up in pursuit of the whole experience that includes a particular lifestyle.
That lifestyle (sadhana) seems to be one of the prime factors differentiating genuine mystical insight from drug-induced states--sadhana creates permanent changes in the mental system--real mystics "stay high forever" while the drug experience wears off and is often difficult to assimilate into one's daily life in a useful way.
Madan Gopal Das - May 19, 2009 5:16 pm
Heard a great interview with this author today. Good review for Gaura-vijaya?
Fingerprints of God: The search for the science of spirituality
Product Description
From the award-winning NPR religion correspondent comes a fascinating investigation of how science is seeking to answer the question that has puzzled humanity for generations: Can science explain God?
Is spiritual experience real or a delusion? Are there realities that we can experience but not easily measure? Does your consciousness depend entirely on your brain, or does it extend beyond? In Fingerprints of God, award-winning journalist Barbara Bradley Hagerty delves into the discoveries science is making about how faith and spirituality affect us physically and emotionally as it attempts to understand whether the ineffable place beyond this world can be rationally —even scientifically—explained.
Hagerty interviews some of the world’s top scientists to describe what their groundbreaking research reveals about our human spiritual experience. From analyses of the brain functions of Buddhist monks and Carmelite nuns, to the possibilities of healing the sick through directed prayer, to what near-death experiences illuminate about the afterlife, Hagerty reaches beyond what we think we know to understand what happens to us when we believe in a higher power.
Paralleling the discoveries of science is Hagerty’s own account of her spiritual evolution. Raised a Christian Scientist, she was a scrupulous adherent until a small moment as an adult triggered a revaluation of her beliefs, which in turn led her to a new way of thinking about God and faith.
An insightful examination of what science is learning about how and why we believe, Fingerprints of God is also a moving story of one person’s search for a communion with a higher power and what she discovered on that journey.
About the Author
Barbara Bradley Hagerty is the award-winning religion correspondent for National Public Radio. She is the recipient of the Templeton–Cambridge Journalism Fellowship in Science and Religion, and a Knight Fellowship at Yale Law School. Before joining NPR, she was a reporter at The Christian Science Monitor for eleven years.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 19, 2009 6:20 pm
I guess I need to get hold of the book. Let me check if I can get it through library somewhere.
My conclusion is that science can maybe hint towards the imminence of God but not the transcendence of God. Transcendence means beyond the investigation of material nature. Even imminence can be seen by a scientist only if has some feeling or humility while approaching nature, not if he just records information and is like a robot. An atheist also has a feeling by which he interprets results in science. And there are some(actually quite a lot) people in science are indifferent about the issue of God, soul etc . Because these people realize that they can't conclusively prove anything and they don't want to impose any feeling into the interpretation of scientific results.
Babhru Das - May 19, 2009 8:12 pm
The analogies that Jill used were that of parallel and serial type processors for the right and left hemispheres of the brain (not in any particular order). I can find the places where I've read it, but in reviewing her, I was linked to places that indicate the majority of contemporary neurological science don't feel the brain actually operates in this way with the serial and parallel sides.
Hemisphericity has always been controversial. (It was controversial 20 years ago, when I was in the nation's first graduate seminar on affect and cognition in composition processes.) That just makes it interesting to discuss and makes it possible for folks to give papers at conferences, publish journal articles and books, etc. And Taylor's not an amateur. I think there may be much for us to discuss in her book. Its recent release in paperback has had her Fresh Air interview replayed. And i think there's also much recent discourse that makes Hagerty's book current, too.
Gopala Dasa - May 19, 2009 9:29 pm
About the AuthorBarbara Bradley Hagerty is the award-winning religion correspondent for National Public Radio. She is the recipient of the Templeton–Cambridge Journalism Fellowship in Science and Religion, and a Knight Fellowship at Yale Law School. Before joining NPR, she was a reporter at The Christian Science Monitor for eleven years.
I guess Hagerty is doing a five-part NPR series this week on the "Science of Spirituality."
Yesterday:
The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=104240746
Today:
Are Spiritual Encounters All In Your Head?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=104291534
Tomorrow:
Buddhist monks and other long-term practitioners of meditation who are coming under the gaze of brain researchers
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 20, 2009 2:10 pm
I guess Hagerty is doing a five-part NPR series this week on the "Science of Spirituality."
Yesterday:
The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=104240746
Today:
Are Spiritual Encounters All In Your Head?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=104291534
Tomorrow:
Buddhist monks and other long-term practitioners of meditation who are coming under the gaze of brain researchers
Thanks for the articles. It is very clear from them especially the second one that it is hard to conclude anything: mystic experience will certainly induce chemical changes in the body which can be replicated by injection of some chemicals. But I don't know how that will establish equivalence between the two things. It is a fact that a lot of mystical experiences can be hallucinations but even hallucinations sometimes help people to progress in spiritual life(like Nandatanuja said he had an experience through LSD). I don't think that without grace, genuine mystical experience is possible; this is acknowledged in the V.S.
Nitaisundara Das - May 20, 2009 6:08 pm
I listened to some of the first one, and I did not appreciate it really. The subject is interesting but if the scientific community is going to come out and say, "yes this cyllicibin-induced experience is the same as the mystics have described throughout the ages" then I will not be too pleased. From what little I heard the study did not sound very scientific. I believe they said the subjects were already religious, and the room which they stayed in had religious imagery about, and they played religious music. They are kind of providing a context for the whole thing.
I personally had a whole range of friends, and the more superficial ones had more superficial psychedelic experiences. The more thoughtful ones were more apt to have a thoughtful experience, but that still rarely translated into anything practical after the fact. Once an acquaintance told me he realized the meaning of life while on LSD but then forgot it. I just kind of laughed.
People certainly do turn towards spirituality sometimes as a result of such things, but I refuse to accept the idea that they are inherently spiritual or lead to the same experience that mystics have.
Citta Hari Dasa - May 20, 2009 11:21 pm
I listened to some of the first one, and I did not appreciate it really. The subject is interesting but if the scientific community is going to come out and say, "yes this cyllicibin-induced experience is the same as the mystics have described throughout the ages" then I will not be too pleased. From what little I heard the study did not sound very scientific. I believe they said the subjects were already religious, and the room which they stayed in had religious imagery about, and they played religious music. They are kind of providing a context for the whole thing.
I personally had a whole range of friends, and the more superficial ones had more superficial psychedelic experiences. The more thoughtful ones were more apt to have a thoughtful experience, but that still rarely translated into anything practical after the fact. Once an acquaintance told me he realized the meaning of life while on LSD but then forgot it. I just kind of laughed.
People certainly do turn towards spirituality sometimes as a result of such things, but I refuse to accept the idea that they are inherently spiritual or lead to the same experience that mystics have.
Neem Karoli Baba said as much about LSD when he said something like "If your mind is turned toward God when you take it then it can be useful. But love is the strongest medicine." So obviously context has quite a lot to do with it, and grace is the real deal. No amount of LSD, psylocybin, mescaline, or whatever will make one see God. And Nitai's experience with friends has been my experience as well--in my psychedelic days there was always a vast difference in trip experiences depending on the persons involved.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 21, 2009 4:16 pm
Neem Karoli Baba said as much about LSD when he said something like "If your mind is turned toward God when you take it then it can be useful. But love is the strongest medicine." So obviously context has quite a lot to do with it, and grace is the real deal. No amount of LSD, psylocybin, mescaline, or whatever will make one see God. And Nitai's experience with friends has been my experience as well--in my psychedelic days there was always a vast difference in trip experiences depending on the persons involved.
I will write something in this regard, speaking about possibility of different internal states leading to same observation in form of chemical secretions observed physically. In scientific community Ockham's razor is used by choosing the simpler and more "believable" model over a "complex" model if both models match the observation. The simple model for science is reductionist because they are happy to deal with only gross existence. The subtle elements like mind or intelligence don't fit the existing scientific paradigm so there is resistance to adopt these models. Hence they keep on working with models that account for only physical phenomenon and try to stretch them withing the reductionist framework to fit the data. They have been able to do a lot with regard to mainstream public and their neurological disorders through this framework; now they want to capture the last remaining frontier for science held by the mystics by their reductionist paradigm.
I thought I can move my earlier post here.
I thought it is good to see the insights of Ram Dass(Dr Richard Alpert) as he had got a PhD in psychology from Stanford( was a professor in Harvard) and then started spiritual practice. He also talked about his bisexual tendencies and that makes him a good candidate for having a good range of human experiences. Both theoretically and practically.
So this youtube video is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ixRqOauq4...feature=related
Though he is advaitic in his stance, Ram Dass tries to talk about the crippling nature of attachment and addictions and how spiritual practice can lead to delayed gratification and deeper contentment. His words carry some weight as he knows much more psychology than most of us.
Then in the series of videos below, he relates his experience with a Yogi(Maharajji) who asked for LSD from him and took entire carton of pills. Even after taking those pills the yogi was not affected. This made Richard realize that there is a difference between experience of the soul and the experience through LSD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqXKZINRLU...feature=related
I Just loved the beginning part of this video though a it can get kind of new-agey afterwards
Swami - May 21, 2009 6:05 pm
Ockham's razor is used by choosing the simpler and more "believable" model over a "complex" model if both models match the observation. The simple model for science is reductionist because they are happy to deal with only gross existence. The subtle elements like mind or intelligence don't fit the existing scientific paradigm so there is resistance to adopt these models. Hence they keep on stretching models that account for only physical phenomenon and try to stretch them withing the reductionist framework to fit the data.
Sorry for going off topic here, but I had been thinking of Ockham's razor with regard to Prabhupada's svarupa and stretching the model to make it fit with madhurya.
Babhru Das - May 22, 2009 12:23 am
Sorry for going off topic here, but I had been thinking of Ockham's razor with regard to Prabhupada's svarupa and stretching the model to make it fit with madhurya.
Oh, I like the way you think!
Gaura-Vijaya Das - June 26, 2009 4:09 pm
http://books.google.com/books?id=7hxBlYmPO...tsec=frontcover
Krishna meets Jesus
By Peter Schmidt
Has anybody read this book? I found it pretty provocative and it shows that SP did not get enough input from his disciples to correct his misinformation on Christianity surprisingly. SP puts Bible's intrepretation and compilation under heavy scrutiny but I never understand why his disciples did not see how GV interpretation cannot be put under similar scathing attacks.
That would have helped SP to be little bit more reasonable to other sects.
Naradakunda - June 13, 2011 2:56 pm
There has been a spiritual reneissance of sorts going on in Russia during the past decade or two. A big part of the scene has formed around two series of books which have been translated into other European languages and not only became bestsellers, but generated movements and deeply changed people's lives...
1. Ringing Cedars of Russia by Vladimir Megre: The mystical true life story of an enterpreneur, the author himself, who embarks on a trip to Siberia for business purposes, but somehow meets the 3 surviving members of the Vedrussian race, the only living evidence of pre-Christian Vedic culture in Russia. The youngest is a woman in her 20s, who starts a family with the author, while the two elder members are her grandfather and great-grandfather, both over a 100 years old. They live in the wilderness, possessing nothing, inflencing humanity from afar with their spiritual knowledge and mystic powers. In course of time they reveal the truth of how Christianity and atheistic science presented a false history of the pre-Christian era, of demonic influences from other planets, of Vedic lifestyle as it was practiced in the "pagan" days, of the importance of growing your own food and living in a natural setting, and so many more things.
2. Diagnostics of Karma by S.N. Lazarev. The author is a psychic healer, artist, philosopher, physicist and more whose practical work with the terminally ill and others (with a very high rate of recovery) has led him to the conclusion that love of God is the solution to all problems. Under his guidance, people change their outlook on life and their character, and this improves their health and fate. The books consist of actual cases from his practice, theoretical explanations of the mechanics of cause and effect both in general and specifically for each case, quotes from the Bible now and then, as well as supporting evidence from Vedic philosophy. Each book is a step up, as he is forced to go deeper to heal heavier cases. In addition, he shares his realizations about the nature of time, space and matter, human psychology, etc. Since he is an empiricist, it's taking him years of practical experience and analysis to arrive at the same truths we have heard from the shastra, but the amazing thing is that he does arrive at them gradually.
I am not sure I have done these works justice with these short, incomplete summaries, given my rusty English and memory, but somehow I felt inspired to present them. I would appreciate some feedback, especially if someone has heard of or read these books. Personally I found them very helpful as far as practical application of devotional philosophy in our daily Western household life, kind of a bridge between the spiritual ideal and the material surroundings, as they shed light on the subtle world which controls the gross. They were a welcome change from the sometimes too abstract and painfully dry world of pure philosophy which I had apparently overdosed on in my ashram days.
I believe it was Nitaisundar prabhu who elsewhere mentioned how he would be interested in this kind of thing. Others I think have also mentioned tendencies toward psychology, mysticism and the like. I have no idea if these books have any popularity in the States, or how they would come across to an American mind, but I know devotees tend to be open minded and expert at separating the milk from the water. And they seem to harmonize with The Harmonist 
:) :Batting Eyelashes:
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 29, 2012 9:34 am
This book sounds interesting:
http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/academic/religion/hinduism/9780199865901.do#.UGbAEpgxrNs
Mathura-natha Das - October 15, 2012 5:59 pm
This book sounds interesting:
http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/academic/religion/hinduism/9780199865901.do#.UGbAEpgxrNs
Oh, it's a friend of mine here in Gothenburg who wrote it!
Braja-sundari Dasi - October 15, 2012 8:28 pm
Oh, it's a friend of mine here in Gothenburg who wrote it!
Did you read it?
Mathura-natha Das - October 16, 2012 7:05 pm
Did you read it?
No, I just followed your link and saw his name as the author so I was really happy to find out that it was him. But I´ll see if I can get a copy of it!
Acyuta Dasa - March 9, 2013 11:43 pm
Perhaps there was some specific necessity involved, but I noticed that Citta Hari Prabhu's recent review, of "Realization and Manifestation of Your Eternal Identity," was of an e-book.
It brought to mind a couple recent digital publications:
"Did Srila Prabhupada Want Women Diksa Gurus" is available here. I haven't read the entire thing (it's between 200 and 300 pages long), but it may be worth commenting on. (Then again, I suppose harmonist.us may have a policy about directly commenting on ISKCON.) Regarding this particular issue, Swami Tripurari's recent sanga article, "Varnasrama, Bhakti, and Vaisnavi Gurus," was excellent. However, the debate over this issue, currently raging on dandavats and other online forums, has not been based as much in siddhanta as was Maharaja's article. The title of this ebook gives a hint that this is largely not the case here either, as it is more concerned with what may or may not have been Srila Prabhupada's desire for ISKCON than it is with a siddhantic conclusion about women's eligibility for giving diksa.
The other suggestion is from even further out in left field: "The Life and Times of Bhakta Jim." Available here. (I just noticed that this is now available also in paperback, through Amazon.) I read it a few months ago. It was entertaining. Not terribly written (though, like most self-published books, could have used an editor or a proofreader). And oddly enlightening from time to time (given that the author allows himself to say things that "fixed up" devotees would not). For anyone curious about what ISKCON was like in the late 70s (and who might like a slightly different perspective than we have so far gotten from books in the memories/glorification-of-Srila-Prabhupada genre), this book is unique. Though often irreverent, the author seems to still have a soft spot for Krishna consciousness (if not for ISKCON). And the fact that he wrote the original manuscript just after the end of his two-year stint as a self-described "fringie" (who eventually moved into the temple and was subsequently kidnapped and deprogrammed) means that the memories were relatively fresh. His devotional life was spent in Chicago, from 77 to 79, so several familiar characters turn up in his story, including Sivarama Swami, Jayatirtha, Tamal Krishna Goswami, and, yes, Swami Tripurari.