Tattva-viveka
Social / Psychological
Nitaisundara Das - April 3, 2009 3:20 am
Post all social and psychological topics here.
Madan Gopal Das - April 3, 2009 3:20 pm
1. Medical marijuana for pain management or end of life treatment. (I believe I've read something by GM in this regard on Sanga) Also saw a good piece on "60 minutes" about the laws in CA re. medical marijuana.
2. Legalization of marijuana and consideration of value of deterence.
Bijaya Kumara Das - April 4, 2009 3:51 am
there was just a tv special done on marijuana about the slaves taken from mexico and forced to live in the forest in medicino county and other mountainous regions of California and US parks by the drug cartel and how the DEA and other law enforcement officals are enforcing the irradication of the grow farms.
If they just legalized it and took the profit out of it they would all go home.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 4, 2009 4:06 am
I thought it is good to see the insights of Ram Dass(Dr Richard Alpert) as he had got a PhD in psychology from Stanford( was a professor in Harvard) and then started spiritual practice. He also talked about his bisexual tendencies and that makes him a good candidate for having a good range of human experiences. Both theoretically and practically.
So this youtube video is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ixRqOauq4...feature=related
Though he is advaitic in his stance, Ram Dass tries to talk about the crippling nature of attachment and addictions and how spiritual practice can lead to delayed gratification and deeper contentment. His words carry some weight as he knows much more psychology than most of us.
Then in the series of videos below, he relates his experience with a Yogi(Maharajji) who asked for LSD from him and took entire carton of pills. Even after taking those pills the yogi was not affected. This made Richard realize that there is a difference between experience of the soul and the experience through LSD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqXKZINRLU...feature=related
I Just loved the beginning part of this video though a it can get kind of new-agey afterwards
Vamsidhari Dasa - April 4, 2009 6:53 pm
I Just loved the beginning part of this video though afterwords it can get kind of new-agey[/b]
yeah I saw this video years ago and loved the part about LSD as well, but then I thought that the "pills" he had might have expired by the time he brought them to India. 
Although many parts of this video are very touching for the amount of affection he has for his spiritual teacher.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - April 18, 2009 4:25 pm
http://gaurangakishore.blogspot.com/2009/0...ly-atheist.html
This is about the friendly atheist pretty interesting.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 17, 2009 10:32 pm
Two news articles I found were pretty interesting,
http://www.livescience.com/culture/090515-happiness-age.html
Happiness is being old, republican and male! Showing how difficult it is to meet the increasing artificially created level in the standard of living.
And second is hot debate about Obama tackling the issue of abortion.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090517/pl_politico/22611
I am not clear what kind of stand we have to take on abortion. For example people assume that if you are liberal towards LGBT community, you have to be liberal about abortion too. I wanted to know what is our take on abortion: for me personally in event of a rape or mother's health in danger abortion can be considered.
Swami - May 18, 2009 4:00 am
A very complex issue given today's society but otherwise not. I tend to agree with your position Gaura-vijaya
Gaura-Vijaya Das - May 20, 2009 2:17 pm
Yet again Catholic style schools with child abuse etc giving some name to religion.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_..._catholic_abuse
Gaura-Vijaya Das - September 19, 2010 2:57 pm
Women are more balanced and take moderate risk. Is that the reason for the Indian banking system to have survived? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busines...how/6584040.cms
Quite the opposite of not very intelligent and not trustworthy! I hope BhaktiVikas Swami will wake up to this reality instead of giving lectures on the issue.
Bijaya Kumara Das - September 23, 2010 7:15 am
Women are more balanced and take moderate risk. Is that the reason for the Indian banking system to have survived?
probably so
we have great god sister women leaders
Gopakumara Das - September 25, 2010 2:20 pm
probably so
we have great god sister women leaders
Cultures, religions and individuals would not spend so much time hypothesizing the inferiority of women if there wasn't something inherently threatening about women and what they are capable of. I've said before, and it may be worth saying again, that the first thing to envy in the mother is that she can cultivate life, the second that she can nourish it. These are things that we men cannot naturally do to the extent that women can. This will always cause us to shroud them and find ways that we can dominate them. If they are subdued then we don't have to deal with how small their productivity makes us feel. Maybe we should just learn to cope with our own deficits?
Gauravani Dasa - October 20, 2010 12:20 am
... doubting altruism is easy, even when it seems at first glance to be apparent. It’s undeniable that people sometimes act in a way that benefits others, but it may seem that they always get something in return — at the very least, the satisfaction of having their desire to help fulfilled. Students in introductory philosophy courses torture their professors with this reasoning. And its logic can seem inexorable.
...
When we ask whether human beings are altruistic, we want to know about their motives or intentions. Biological altruism explains how unselfish behavior might have evolved but, as Frans de Waal suggested in his column in The Stone on Sunday, it implies nothing about the motives or intentions of the agent: after all, birds and bats and bees can act altruistically. This fact helps to explain why, despite these evolutionary theories, the view that people never intentionally act to benefit others except to obtain some good for themselves still possesses a powerful lure over our thinking.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - October 21, 2010 9:53 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/us/politics/21climate.html
Global warming and the tea party.
One Christian says:
They’re trying to use global warming against the people,” Ms. Deaton said. “It takes away our liberty.”
“Being a strong Christian,” she added, “I cannot help but believe the Lord placed a lot of minerals in our country and it’s not there to destroy us.”
Wow nice logic!!!
Gauravani Dasa - January 31, 2011 12:56 pm
Here is an interesting, well-produced video:
Nitai and I discussed the possibility of creating a video, similar to this example, with GM's words.
Gauravani Dasa - May 5, 2011 8:20 pm
"The larger question, of course, is why confirmation bias exists. This is the sort of mental mistake that seems ripe for fixing by natural selection, since it always leads to erroneous beliefs and faulty causal theories. We’d be a hell of a lot smarter if we weren’t only drawn to evidence that confirms what we already believe.
And this leads me to a fascinating and provocative new theory of reasoning put forth by Hugo Mercier and Dan Sperber. In essence, they argue that human reason has nothing to do with finding the truth, or locating the best alternative. Instead, it’s all about being able to argue with others..."
Mercier and Sperber's argumentative theory is explained here.
Gauravani Dasa - June 9, 2011 11:05 pm
An interesting article about defining the self:
"If we look to the philosophical tradition ... (it) says that what is most distinctive and essential to a human being is the capacity for rational reflection. A person might find herself having various urges, whims or fleeting emotions, but these are not who she most fundamentally is. If you want to know who she truly is, you would have to look to the moments when she stops to reflect and think about her deepest values.
"But when I mention this view to people outside the world of philosophy, they often seem stunned that anyone could ever believe it. They are immediately drawn to the very opposite view. The true self, they suggest, lies precisely in our suppressed urges and unacknowledged emotions, while our ability to reflect is just a hindrance that gets in the way of this true self’s expression.
"People's ordinary understanding of the true self appears to involve a kind of value judgment, a judgment about what sorts of lives are really worth living."
The full article is In Search of the True Self.
The article drifts off into the political implications of these viewpoints, but I think it is interesting that what is being described is reasoning influenced by the gunas.
Madhavendra Puri Dasa - June 10, 2011 7:45 am
I think Theory of Positive Desintegration is worth some article on Harmonist. Here is the link to the main website: http://positivedisintegration.com/
The idea of constant distroying the old structures of personality to build a new ones on the road to perfection seems to have lots of spiritual connotation to me. The author of the theory, Dabrowski, was Christian with belives strongly personalistic.
Here are some quotes from his "Existential Thoughts and Aphorisms":
"Toward the concrete in transcendence, toward exclusiveness and
unrepeatability in transcendence, toward the subjective absolute in
transcendence! Adjustment to that which ought to be, and maladjustment
to so-called everyday reality. How strongly and with what
determination one has to follow the path of positive maladjustment."
"We live outside, we develop sensitivity to the external world, its
heterogeneity and the richness of external experiences and external
milieu. But we will never become true people, authentic people, if we
do not have in our inner world the same heterogeneity, the same
richness, the same interests and vitality, and more ... if we do not
discover the richness flowing from the inner hierarchy and from
approaching the ideal."
"Faltering success — what a big word and a great period in
development. Until now there were ambitions, financial needs, desire
to possess desire for power and importance. Need to be higher, unaware
of the problems of other people, hurting them or even destroying them.
And now ... forgetting about oneself, helping others,activities
grasping at the banal word "sacrifice", compassion, empathy,
identification with others and many previously unknown attitudes. But
how much we still desire partial success, even small results in
spiritual things, in so-called higher matters. Only after the majority
of our aims and goals are reduced to ashes, do some remain to light
the way toward love without self-satisfaction."
"Great personalities are honored by monuments, publications,
celebrations and usually ... they do not have imitators. Relations
with them are generalized, abstract and rigid. People don't experience
the fullness of their personalities, their concreteness and
uniqueness. They become institutionalized, walled-off, nonliving."
"Forces striving to penetrate to the "unknown" are so powerful at
times, and so occupy a man's entire personality that one may call
them, in their totality, the transcendental instinct. It is this
instinct which then sets in motion another powerful force serving it —
the death instinct.
If the space before the "unknown" brightens up, the death instinct
does the work of cousing a more or less swift atrophy of inferior
dynamisms. If the space does not brighten up, it kills, a man's entire
psychic being, and even leads to suicide."
"Inner anxiety, inner conflicts, maladjustments, sorrows, and
disruptions — everything that demeans our position in the scale of
common values, work toward our passage to a world of higher values."
"Understanding the division or "disruption" between that which is
subjective and that which is objective possible through inquiry into
developmental correlations of both attitudes. Here the "subject"
develops an objective attitude toward himself, and becomes an
"object", and this allows the treatment of others as "subjects" in
their full richness, unity and unrepeatability. 'Thus, the
"disruption" becomes cooperation, an antinomy —a syntony, a division —
an enriching union. Maybe it is a way to shed the rigidity of monistic
unity and inflexible "perfection", through the introduction of
distinctions which transcend the "perfect immobility" and
unchangeability, by perfecting dynamisms with the unchangeability of
only certain qualities."
PS. If someone is interested I got lots of his ebooks which are not available on Internet.
Nitaisundara Das - June 10, 2011 6:38 pm
Oh Wow Madhavendra! I did not read this yet but it is so cool that you know the Dabrowski (of course, you are both Polish, so it makes sense). Vrindaranya found him online a few years ago and read up on him for a while. I also thought his ideas were very good and read a bit and joined a yahoo email group about TPD. I still get the emails and sometimes they are very interesting. I saw once where Dabrowski wrote about Arjuna's experience in the Gita and so on. I would love for you to end me the ebooks, although I do think Bill Tillier has put a lot of them online, but maybe you have more rare ones.
I like you idea of using some of his thoughts for the Harmonist!
I think Theory of Positive Desintegration is worth some article on Harmonist. Here is the link to the main website: http://positivedisintegration.com/The idea of constant distroying the old structures of personality to build a new ones on the road to perfection seems to have lots of spiritual connotation to me. The author of the theory, Dabrowski, was Christian with belives strongly personalistic.
Here are some quotes from his "Existential Thoughts and Aphorisms":
"Toward the concrete in transcendence, toward exclusiveness and
unrepeatability in transcendence, toward the subjective absolute in
transcendence! Adjustment to that which ought to be, and maladjustment
to so-called everyday reality. How strongly and with what
determination one has to follow the path of positive maladjustment."
"We live outside, we develop sensitivity to the external world, its
heterogeneity and the richness of external experiences and external
milieu. But we will never become true people, authentic people, if we
do not have in our inner world the same heterogeneity, the same
richness, the same interests and vitality, and more ... if we do not
discover the richness flowing from the inner hierarchy and from
approaching the ideal."
"Faltering success — what a big word and a great period in
development. Until now there were ambitions, financial needs, desire
to possess desire for power and importance. Need to be higher, unaware
of the problems of other people, hurting them or even destroying them.
And now ... forgetting about oneself, helping others,activities
grasping at the banal word "sacrifice", compassion, empathy,
identification with others and many previously unknown attitudes. But
how much we still desire partial success, even small results in
spiritual things, in so-called higher matters. Only after the majority
of our aims and goals are reduced to ashes, do some remain to light
the way toward love without self-satisfaction."
"Great personalities are honored by monuments, publications,
celebrations and usually ... they do not have imitators. Relations
with them are generalized, abstract and rigid. People don't experience
the fullness of their personalities, their concreteness and
uniqueness. They become institutionalized, walled-off, nonliving."
"Forces striving to penetrate to the "unknown" are so powerful at
times, and so occupy a man's entire personality that one may call
them, in their totality, the transcendental instinct. It is this
instinct which then sets in motion another powerful force serving it —
the death instinct.
If the space before the "unknown" brightens up, the death instinct
does the work of cousing a more or less swift atrophy of inferior
dynamisms. If the space does not brighten up, it kills, a man's entire
psychic being, and even leads to suicide."
"Inner anxiety, inner conflicts, maladjustments, sorrows, and
disruptions — everything that demeans our position in the scale of
common values, work toward our passage to a world of higher values."
"Understanding the division or "disruption" between that which is
subjective and that which is objective possible through inquiry into
developmental correlations of both attitudes. Here the "subject"
develops an objective attitude toward himself, and becomes an
"object", and this allows the treatment of others as "subjects" in
their full richness, unity and unrepeatability. 'Thus, the
"disruption" becomes cooperation, an antinomy —a syntony, a division —
an enriching union. Maybe it is a way to shed the rigidity of monistic
unity and inflexible "perfection", through the introduction of
distinctions which transcend the "perfect immobility" and
unchangeability, by perfecting dynamisms with the unchangeability of
only certain qualities."
PS. If someone is interested I got lots of his ebooks which are not available on Internet.
Nitaisundara Das - June 10, 2011 6:43 pm
just read the quotes, they are great!
Vrindaranya Dasi - June 10, 2011 11:59 pm
Wow, great to find another fan of Dabrowski. His insights have been incredibly helpful to me. I was previously thinking of doing an article interfacing Dabrowski's theory with Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Of course, there is the usual mountain of projects to attend to, but hearing that there are devotees out there who are interested in such an article definitely rekindles my interest. Of course, if anyone else wants to take up the article, I'll be an eager reader. I'm also interested in the ebooks if you want to send them my way (vrindaranya@swami.org).
P.S. I've started putting up quotes on Facebook, and I've been planning to put up Dabrowski's "Be greeted psychoneurotics!" soon. 
P.P.S. Here are some quotes I've saved from people talking about Dabrowski's theory (sorry I didn't save the source...it was from some website):
Those with the highest levels of developmental potential (extraordinary, in Dabrowski’s view) may reach level four, organized multilevel disintegration, where through dynamisms such as autopsychotherapy they take control over their own personality development. At this level, persons transcend their primitive instincts and drives. They achieve a highly developed sense of morality. In the highest level of development, secondary integration, rarely achieved and represented by society’s exemplars, the person enacts his or her personality ideal whose hallmark is dedication to serving humanity.
Intellectual OE is demonstrated by a marked need to seek understanding and truth, to gain knowledge, and to analyze and synthesize (Dabrowski & Piechowski, 1977; Piechowski, 1979, 1991). Those high in Intellectual OE have incredibly active minds. They are intensely curious, often avid readers, and usually keen observers. They are able to concentrate, engage in prolonged intellectual effort, and are tenacious in problem solving when they choose. Other characteristics may include relishing elaborate planning and having remarkably detailed visual recall. People with Intellectual OE frequently love theory, thinking about thinking, and moral thinking. This focus on moral thinking often translates into strong concerns about moral and ethical issues-fairness on the playground, lack of respect for children, or being concerned about "adult" issues such as the homeless, AIDS, or war. Intellectually overexcitable people are also quite independent of thought and sometimes appear critical of and impatient with others who cannot sustain their intellectual pace. Or they may be become so excited about an idea that they interrupt at inappropriate times.
A small amount of definitive research and a great deal of naturalistic observation have led to the belief that intensity, sensitivity and overexcitability are primary characteristics of the highly gifted.
When developmental potential is low, emotions, including intense negative emotions, are simply experienced with short-term effects on a person. In contrast, intense emotionality in the context of high OEs yields profound, life-changing experiences contributing to positive disintegration. Inner conflict is associated with such intense emotionality: life events and introspection become catalysts to painful experiencing of the discrepancy between the way the world ought to be and the way it is.
Nitaisundara Das - June 11, 2011 12:17 am
I was looking for the gita quote from him and could not find it but came across another good one:
"One of the key points in development is overcoming egocentrism through the
cultivation of humility. The individual who is satisfied by his or her
accomplishments is at a developmental standstill. One of the early signs of
development is dissatisfaction with oneself and this is the bases of the
development of humility and is also important in subject
object-Dissatisfaction with oneself encourages the individual to considered
and respect the accomplishments of others and not focus exclusively on their
own accomplishments. Again this is another deconstruction of ego in the
service of advanced development."
Nitaisundara Das - June 11, 2011 12:23 am
And in relation to the article Gauravani posted: "Dabrowski's approach was that an individual's unique and authentic self had to be both discovered and created. Thus, Dabrowski emphasized both discovery of one's essence (the deep intrinsic unique characteristics of oneself that are usually masked and covered up by socialization) and created by the existential choices that one makes during one's life."
Madhavendra Puri Dasa - June 12, 2011 7:52 pm
Wow, that's nice:) I didn't know anyone out there knows Dabrowski, I know like maybe 3 people who heard about him, it feels that he is almost completely forgotten. He helped me a lot in difficult times and he is still helping. I think he had very deep spiritual insights which can be useful for sadhaka in dealing with the difficulties.
About the ebooks - the ones I got are not on the internet, I got them on DVD and they are in such strange format that is just too big for an email. Give me an address and I will send u a copy on DVD.
I might try to write an article with an overview of Theory if Positive Desintegration (though I don't think I am up to the task of interfacing it with GV), but someone would need to give it a good editing, my English isn't suitable for Harmonist.
Madhavendra Puri Dasa - June 12, 2011 7:57 pm
I was previously thinking of doing an article interfacing Dabrowski's theory with Gaudiya Vaisnavism.
That would be amazing. I wouldn't dare to take up such a project, but with good GV knowledge someone could make an inspiring piece of writing.
Nitaisundara Das - June 13, 2011 4:29 am
Will you be in Poland in July Madhavendra? I would love to meet you and I could get the CD then. Otherwise, you can mail to:
Audarya
22001 Panorama Way
Philo, CA 95466
USA
Gauravani Dasa - August 2, 2011 12:00 pm
"In this essay, let us explore what exactly is modernity and how does it affect our way of thinking. Does modernity achieve what it sets out to do? And how do Hindu culture and traditions fit into this. Where does Hindu tradition stop and modern values begin? The main argument presented here is that the so-called modern values were already imbibed in the Hindu culture."
The author of the article above, Pankaj Jain, Ph.D. (Assistant Professor, Department of Anthropology and Philosophy/Religion Studies, University of North Texas, USA), has also published a book thats looks interesting: Dharma and Ecology of Hindu Communities: Sustenance and Sustainability
Gauravani Dasa - August 16, 2011 11:39 am
"We may derive some benefit from the availability of hot baths and computer chips, but our lives are no less subject to accident, frustrated ambition, heartbreak, jealousy, anxiety or death than were those of our medieval forebears. But at least our ancestors had the advantage of living in a religious era which never made the mistake of promising its population that happiness could ever make a permanent home for itself on this earth.
"The secular are at this moment in history a great deal more optimistic than the religious - something of an irony given the frequency with which the religious have been derided by the non religious for their apparent naivety and credulousness. It is the secular whose longing for perfection has grown so intense as to lead them to imagine that paradise might be realised on this earth after just a few more years of financial growth and medical research."
Madan Gopal Das - August 16, 2011 4:22 pm
Interesting... I've been thinking about this subject a lot for possible writing. Thanks for the link.
Gauravani Dasa - August 17, 2011 3:57 pm
Relevance of Hinduism in modern era: A scientific perspective
"Another major concept which should be examined is the principle of living in Hinduism that is "Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha". Here Dharma comes first, which is therefore the driving as well as controlling force. Artha and Kama that is processes of earning (economic activity) and that of enjoying family life are to be carried out keeping the rules of Dharma and the goal of Moksha into account. Because of the two boundary conditions imposed by Dharma and Moksha, other two activities have stringent controls. So these rules appear to maintain certain equilibrium at individual level and several other levels in the society and the environment. Such a principle of living should be therefore further explored in a Systems Science perspective. "
Gauravani Dasa - August 23, 2011 10:59 pm
"The greatest and most essential virtue is thanklessness, the ability to keep serving even when there are no evident rewards — no fame, no admiration, no gratitude.
"The second virtue ... is deference, the willingness to listen and learn from the moral and intellectual storehouses of the people you are trying to help.
"The first virtue ... is courage, the willingness to go off to a strange place."
Gauravani Dasa - August 27, 2011 11:12 pm
This guy deserves a Gaudiya response:
Thomas Merton, the famous Trappist monk and Catholic scribe wrote, "A monk is a man who has given up everything in order to possess everything. He . . . has abandoned desire in order to achieve the highest fulfillment of all desire." If giving to others brought monks nothing in return, it wouldn't be long before they were out looking for something more rewarding. We confuse everyone and everything by use of this word "selfless" to describe something that is actually self-fulfilling. The monks may be smarter or more enlightened than the rest of us, but they aren't more selfless. They've just figured out that doing for others delivers a better rate of return to self than a Maserati. To go around asking the rest of us to be selfless is to ask us to live up to an impossible standard, which even the monks themselves don't attempt to meet.
Click here for the full article, entitled Sacrifice is Overrated...
His article is a response to Are You a Role Model? which is an opinion on Warren Buffet's recent statement regarding taxing the rich.
Gauravani Dasa - September 2, 2011 12:18 pm
This is a strange argument against subjective experience and consciousness:
"Although it may be difficult to doubt the existence of severe, canonical pains and visual experiences of centrally presented uniform colors in standard conditions, such cases are not typical cases of introspective knowledge but rather unusual, best cases. To start epistemological inquiry by thinking about cases of that sort, and to generalize swiftly from there, is to rig the game...
"Perplexities of Consciousness is composed mostly of detailed case studies of aspects of the stream of experience about which people seem to err, grossly and persistently, even in circumstances that might seem favorable to reflection. We aren’t just fallible in hard cases, I argue; we err systematically and pervasively about even the most basic facts of the stream of experience, and even when we set our minds to it carefully and conscientiously. Our knowledge of our immediate physical environment is much better than our knowledge of our stream of experience, and in fact to a large extent our knowledge of our physical environment is the ground of whatever knowledge we do manage to cobble together about our stream of experience."
The author contends that we cannot report our subjective experiences accurately and concludes that the external world is more real than the internal one. I think he is confusing mind and consciousness.
"Even the words we use to describe the stream of experience – words like “blue”, “rectangular”, “cheesy”, and “spicy” – refer in the first instance to the properties of outward objects and only secondarily and derivatively to the properties of the sensory experiences that those objects typically produce."
Original article: Turning Descartes on His Introspective Head
Gauravani Dasa - December 11, 2011 9:46 pm
There are a series of interesting articles at Psycology Today's The Big Question: Why Are We Here?, particularly, Robert Lanza's Why Do You Exist?.
The articles that argue against the existence of God do so by rationalizing Abrahamic conceptions while Lanza's biocentrism is surprisingly similar advaita vedanta.
Reading Lanza reminds me of how GM says that science will be a mystic in its old age.
Gopakumara Das - January 4, 2012 2:52 am
Reading Lanza reminds me of how GM says that science will be a mystic in its old age.
GM makes a great point. Already philosophers like Alfred Whitehead have begun the process of thinking about the metaphysical possibilities of science. Whitehead (see Understanding Whitehead by Lowe 1962) creates Process Theology. His work inspired Catherine Keller's Quantum Theology (see the Harmonist: http://harmonist.us/2011/11/interview-catherine-keller-on-quantum-theology/ ).