Tattva-viveka
San Francisco Rathayatra
Ratna Cintamani Dasi - July 19, 2009 7:47 pm
Agni just spoke with the Berkerley temple about the Rathayatra parade next Saturday and was told that he can no longer lead the kirtan in front of Lord Balarama as his kirtan is too ecstatic and the majority of the devotees would join his kirtan and leave the other carts with a smaller group of devotees. He was told that this was a problem and they will fix it by giving him less time to chant, a 30% part of the kirtan in front of LJ's cart, but he can't lead the last part as they are coming into the park. No explanation why, but last year anyone that was there will remember that as being the best part of the parade and many people came up to Agni afterwards to say so, but Agni gave the credit where it was due as Guru Maharaja had given the inspiration for him to chant "Jaya Radha Madhava".
The most irritating part for us though was when he was told that he was not allowed to give or share the microphone with Guru Maharaja during the parade. So it seems that the real problem is that Agni is still able to lead the devotees in an ecstatic inspirational kirtan but his inspiration is coming from outside of ISKcon. It is very distasteful for us to have Guru Maharaja insulted in this way and Agni feels that he will not be able to attend as long as they have this offensive stance to someone we hold very dear to our hearts. It is even hard to repeat this but we feel that the community needs to hear the truth. Our group has attended the parade the last few years only to celebrate and chant for the pleasure of Lord Jagganatha, not to create problems and we have always kept a low profile not pushing our agenda. It is a shame it cannot be received in the spirit it is intended.
Syamasundara - July 19, 2009 8:58 pm
Agni feels that he will not be able to attend as long as they have this offensive stance to someone we hold very dear to our hearts.
Is this what he also told them right away?
:Sick: I need a bucket. Whatever happened to anandambudhi-vardhana? Instead of getting impetus and trying to match up with the level of ecstasy, they try to bring everything down to their level of going-through-the-motion-ness. 
I am so angry. Good thing GM wasn't gonna be there anyway. I wish their attitude could be broadcast, but certainly not on the Harmonist, as it would be too political. Still, people should know.
Braja-sundari Dasi - July 19, 2009 10:08 pm
How disgusting and disappointing... How can they be so blind and envious?! :Sick:
Citta Hari Dasa - July 19, 2009 11:55 pm
I'm with you Syamu, I need a barf bag.
Too ecstatic--are you kidding?? Isn't that what kirtana is supposed to be about?
The politics are too much. They obviously can't deal with real spiritual power--it's too attractive!
Anyway, they can have their festival, and it will be all the lamer for lacking GM and Agni's kirtana.
Babhru Das - July 20, 2009 1:47 am
This is just too much. Pass me a bag, too, please.
I'll write a note for Chakra. (The Sampradaya Eclipse is not sympathetic to us.) Both Madhusudani and Ananda are friends of mine. Ratna, if there's anything not in your post here that I should include, please send me an email: babhru@gmail.com.
Prema-bhakti - July 20, 2009 2:51 am
This is madness.
Last year's Rath kirtana was so intensely spiritual when Agni was chanting "Jaya Radha Madhava" I heard a tulmultuous sigh of ecstasy from the crowd, no joke. 
It just keeps getting worse. I mean they are so blatant in their absurdity. Years ago, it seemed they would have at least come up with a better justification, like you are not ISKCON prabhu, 
. Noone, I mean NO ONE can convince me ISKCON is getting better.
Honestly, my reply to them would be if you really want to improve the kirtanas DO NOT let Trivikrama Swami near the kartals then put Tripurari Maharaja chanting at Balarama's cart, Agni at Jagannatha's and we can find someone for Subhadra's like Guru Nistha. Better yet put all the deities on one cart with Prabhupada and Agni and GM could lead the whole time.
Citta Hari Dasa - July 20, 2009 3:00 am
Exactly! Boycott!It is very distasteful for us to have Guru Maharaja insulted in this way and Agni feels that he will not be able to attend as long as they have this offensive stance to someone we hold very dear to our hearts.
So it seems that the real problem is that Agni is still able to lead the devotees in an ecstatic inspirational kirtan but his inspiration is coming from outside of ISKcon.
Do they not see the blatant hypocrisy in this? They want to take advantage of Agni's kirtan skills without giving any credit to who is fueling it (and has been for so many years now).
I firmly believe that if SP were here he would be calling the people who made this decision FOOLS and ASSES.
I want to write a long string of expletives at this point, so I'll just stop here.
Ratna Cintamani Dasi - July 20, 2009 3:05 am
This is just too much. Pass me a bag, too, please.
I'll write a note for Chakra. (The Sampradaya Eclipse is not sympathetic to us.) Both Madhusudani and Ananda are friends of mine. Ratna, if there's anything not in your post here that I should include, please send me an email: babhru@gmail.com.
Agni would rather you didn't send anything to Chakra. He simply wanted to let our community know what goes on. The fact that they can say this stuff out loud and not realize what they are saying speaks volumes. Not worth putting any energy into this.
Prema-bhakti - July 20, 2009 3:12 am
The fact that they can say this stuff out loud and not realize what they are saying speaks volumes. Not worth putting any energy into this.
Good point. Thank you for letting us know as intolerable as it is to hear.
Syamasundara - July 20, 2009 3:38 am
The fact that they can say this stuff out loud and not realize what they are saying speaks volumes.
Yes, but to us few, and only after we've been informed about it. Meanwhile, it's full of devotees out there who are still convinced that Iskcon is SP's body, and I really wonder how they would react to this. Granted, Iskcon Berkeley is hardly representative for the society at large...
It's weird, they are so authority-driven, and then they let such a significant yatra like the SF one (as far as the Ratha Yatra at least) go down the drain. Who is in charge of that area anyway?
Babhru Das - July 20, 2009 3:48 am
Agni would rather you didn't send anything to Chakra. He simply wanted to let our community know what goes on. The fact that they can say this stuff out loud and not realize what they are saying speaks volumes. Not worth putting any energy into this.
Okay. I'll have to content myself with fuming. I was also thinking about Facebook, but I'll let it go.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - July 20, 2009 4:26 am
Yes, but to us few, and only after we've been informed about it. Meanwhile, it's full of devotees out there who are still convinced that Iskcon is SP's body, and I really wonder how they would react to this. Granted, Iskcon Berkeley is hardly representative for the society at large...It's weird, they are so authority-driven, and then they let such a significant yatra like the SF one (as far as the Ratha Yatra at least) go down the drain. Who is in charge of that area anyway?
I think berkeley temple is the most fundamentalist temple because of the NM episode there .
Prema-bhakti - July 20, 2009 5:09 am
Who is in charge of that area anyway?
Last I heard it was Hari-vilas who is now the GBC of Portland even though there isn't an ISKCON temple there as well as the GBC of the middle east.
Prema-bhakti - July 20, 2009 5:13 am
I think berkeley temple is the most fundamentalist temple because of the NM episode there .
Which episode is that? I thought the big NM episode was in LA.
I don't think Berkeley is the most fundamental but definately the most WEIRD and inconsistant. Of course there is Trivikrama M. that frequents there and won't acknowledge initiated names of NM disciples and stills called them Bhakta so and so.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - July 20, 2009 5:28 am
Which episode is that? I thought the big NM episode was in LA.
I don't think Berkeley is the most fundamental but definately the most WEIRD and inconsistant. Of course there is Trivikrama M. that frequents there and won't acknowledge initiated names of NM disciples and stills called them Bhakta so and so.
Even bhakti svarupa damadar maharaja had problems with that temple.
Bijaya Kumara Das - July 21, 2009 11:46 am
Agni just spoke with the Berkerley temple about the Rathayatra parade next Saturday and was told that he can no longer lead the kirtan in front of Lord Balarama as his kirtan is too ecstatic and the majority of the devotees would join his kirtan and leave the other carts with a smaller group of devotees. He was told that this was a problem and they will fix it by giving him less time to chant, a 30% part of the kirtan in front of LJ's cart, but he can't lead the last part as they are coming into the park. No explanation why, but last year anyone that was there will remember that as being the best part of the parade and many people came up to Agni afterwards to say so, but Agni gave the credit where it was due as Guru Maharaja had given the inspiration for him to chant "Jaya Radha Madhava".
The most irritating part for us though was when he was told that he was not allowed to give or share the microphone with Guru Maharaja during the parade. So it seems that the real problem is that Agni is still able to lead the devotees in an ecstatic inspirational kirtan but his inspiration is coming from outside of ISKcon. It is very distasteful for us to have Guru Maharaja insulted in this way and Agni feels that he will not be able to attend as long as they have this offensive stance to someone we hold very dear to our hearts. It is even hard to repeat this but we feel that the community needs to hear the truth. Our group has attended the parade the last few years only to celebrate and chant for the pleasure of Lord Jagganatha, not to create problems and we have always kept a low profile not pushing our agenda. It is a shame it cannot be received in the spirit it is intended.
Garuntaraja had bhakta Sunny call me and invite me to help with the festival Saturday. I got the message at about 3:30 am Sunday when I got home form working.
I called and talked with Garuntaraja. I asked if we were going to lead infront of Balarama and he said that it would not be possible this year because Rhaski _______ ? Swami would be, but he very much wanted Agni to get his wish and chant in front of Jaganath for at least 30% of the time because so many others of the older Berkerly congregation want to lead the chanting also. He was getting so much flack from the older devotees at the temple and was not sure yet.
I said that would be nice if Agni got his wish and he said wanted to see what Krsna wanted and could not see what all the fuss was about and was just trying to please all the devotees and was favorable about Guru Maharaja and we both agreeded that the devotees that have issues with Gurudeva need to get over it, thirty years is a long time to hold onto that. He also said he could take the flack for letting Agni chant.
We talked awhile longer and he had to get ready for Mangal Aritk.
I did not say any thing on the Sunday call because Guru Maharaja said he was not attending.
He called because ISKCON had put the wrong date in the Back to Godhead. They were also trying to force 2 GBC onto the board of directors last year and I advised both him and Raja Humpsadas not to let that happen, and I have not heard if it happened. They are the BVInstitute which took over the temple when Bhakti Swarup Damodara was still physically present and after he passed troubles began.
It looks like he waited a day for the answer to come.
Bijaya Kumara Das - July 21, 2009 11:58 am
Even bhakti svarupa damadar maharaja had problems with that temple.
The 3 board members were all BVI but because of the Ritvik invasion of all the temples the GBC came up with trying to force all temples to put two GBC on all Boards of Directors so what happened at the Bhaktivedanta Manor and Calcutta would not happen everywhere is my understanding.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - July 21, 2009 4:21 pm
Garuntaraja had bhakta Sunny call me and invite me to help with the festival Saturday. I got the message at about 3:30 am Sunday when I got home form working.
I called and talked with Garuntaraja. I asked if we were going to lead infront of Balarama and he said that it would not be possible this year because Rhaski _______ ? Swami would be, but he very much wanted Agni to get his wish and chant in front of Jaganath for at least 30% of the time because so many others of the older Berkerly congregation want to lead the chanting also. He was getting so much flack from the older devotees at the temple and was not sure yet.
Who is Rhaski?? swami?
Prema-bhakti - July 21, 2009 5:05 pm
I said that would be nice if Agni got his wish and he said wanted to see what Krsna wanted and could not see what all the fuss was about and was just trying to please all the devotees and was favorable about Guru Maharaja and we both agreeded that the devotees that have issues with Gurudeva need to get over it, thirty years is a long time to hold onto that. He also said he could take the flack for letting Agni chant.
He called because ISKCON had put the wrong date in the Back to Godhead. They were also trying to force 2 GBC onto the board of directors last year and I advised both him and Raja Humpsadas not to let that happen, and I have not heard if it happened. They are the BVInstitute which took over the temple when Bhakti Swarup Damodara was still physically present and after he passed troubles began.
I am not sure if it is Agni's wish or not, but it seems he is doing them a big favor if he shows up and leads a dynamic kirtana. This fact seems to allude them (at least Grantharaja).
Interesting if they are seeking advice from Bijaya on temple politics (he isn't even in ISKCON). Of course, when Rasaraja and I visited the temple years ago for the first time they asked if he would be temple president.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - July 22, 2009 11:49 am
The 3 board members were all BVI but because of the Ritvik invasion of all the temples the GBC came up with trying to force all temples to put two GBC on all Boards of Directors so what happened at the Bhaktivedanta Manor and Calcutta would not happen everywhere is my understanding.
See the BVI person who is the head in Bombay rejected his guru, Svarupa Damodar Maharaja and was supported by the GBC and these fellows are connected to him.
Bijaya Kumara Das - July 25, 2009 7:37 am
[quote name='Prema-bhakti' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:05 AM' post='21029'
Interesting if they are seeking advice from Bijaya on temple politics (he isn't even in ISKCON). Of course, when Rasaraja and I visited the temple years ago for the first time they asked if he would be temple president.
They were not seeking advice I just told them what I think they should do after I heard what was happening to them. They were being leveraged with the money theat and other things and were holding their postion to not let it happen but the congregation and many other politics were pressuring them. Do not know what happened yet.
I have been a life member of BBT since 1975 and involved since 1971 I have many contacts with in the organization for many years and yes I am Guru Maharajas' and ISKCON knows and respects that and it has never gotten in the way of allowing my expressions to be heard by them. I have helped them over the years especially with the food for life program and they have never forgotten.
Bijaya Kumara Das - July 25, 2009 7:39 am
Who is Rhaski?? swami?
I believe it is Rhaski ananda but was not sure what I wrote down and thought some one else could fill in the blank
Citta Hari Dasa - July 25, 2009 4:25 pm
I believe it is Rhaski ananda but was not sure what I wrote down and thought some one else could fill in the blank
It's probably Rasikananda.