Tattva-viveka

Deliverance of Jagai and Madhai

Margaret Dale - October 7, 2009 5:20 pm

I'm currently reading Sri Nityananda Caritamrta by Srila Vrindavana Dasa Thakura. I'm having difficulty with the description of the deliverance of Jagain and Madhai. Please share your insights or comments.

 

1. Lord Caitanya sent Nityananda and Haridasa out to ask people to chant Krsna's name and worship Him. He told them that those who did not accept the name He would destroy with his sudarsana weapon. Nityananda and Haridasa smiled because they knew that no one could disobey the order of Krsna.



1. Doesn't killing people seem a bit extreme for not accepting the instruction of worshipping Krsna? Especially as these are residents of Navadvipa?

 

2. Even if in the end everyone is following Krsna's instruction, why would such an instruction make Nityananda and Haridasa smile?

 

2. There were some householders who had been locked out of the ecstatic kirtans of Lord Caitanya, I think at Advaita Acharya's house. When these people were approached by Nityananda and Haridasa with the order to chant Krsna's name, they cried out "Beat them! Beat them!"



Because it is mentioned that these people had been excluded, that seems to indicate that they had some desire to see the kirtans. It would seem a common human reaction to be bitter about their exclusion, but now they are at risk for being killed by Lord Caitanya because of it. It, to me, all seems a bit unfair.

 

3. Jagai and Madhai were the worst of sinners, and their rap sheet includes crimes such as arson, murder, theft, and rape. Nityananda chose to deliver them to highlight Mahaprabhu's power and mercy.



1. What about all of the rest of the sinners? We know of the close associates of Mahaprabhu who were nitya-siddhas, and these two who were terrible sinners. That leaves a large class of people who are more like most of us (I think) who are neither saints nor murderers. Nityananda and Haridasa would tell them to chant, then walk away. Why should such terrible sinners be more fortunate than regular people trying to live a reasonable life?

 

2. What about all those whom Jagai and Madhai had hurt with their behavior? Imagine if you were one of the women that they had raped. Now Nityananda delivers them and they are embraced by Mahaprabhu and given the boon of devotional service. Would you ever be able to look at Mahaprabhu again without feeling a knot in the pit of your stomach? How would you feel to see those two former sinners parading around as saints of the highest order? What would you feel if you knew that they had been liberated and you were still living with your pain?

 

To me, the overall point of the story is that Mahaprabhu is able to easily deliver any one for even the smallest act of service to him (Jagai preventing Madhai from hitting Nityananda again.) I'm having trouble with the rest of the story.

 

Thank you.

Bhrigu - October 8, 2009 6:18 am

Good questions, Margaret! I will try to offer you some answers, but I hope others will add their realizations as well.

 

1. I do not have the Chaitanya Bhagavata with me here at work (the Nityananda Caritamrita is compiled from exerpts from the CB), but most probably one reason for their smiling was their enjoyment of the Lord's exhibiting such a mood. It was not meant literally, of course, since not everyone did take up the chanting, and still nobody was killed.

2. The people excluded that wanted to beat Haridas and Nityananda cannot have been that serious about entering the kirtana. I mean, I am excluded from the local Hare Krishna temple, but I don't try to get bystanders to beat up devotees from there when I see them on the street. And again, they were not killed.

3.1 Jagai and Madhai are highlighted, but that does not mean that others were not delivered. After all, soon after, the Lord takes the sankirtana out of Srivas Angan. So while J & M where hugely fortunate, their fortune is small compared to others, who got the chance to spend much time with the Lord and his associates.

3.2 J & M did not parade around as saints after this. Rather, the sources tell us that they spent the rest of their lives in extreme penance and in trying to rectify the sins they had committed (the list of sins is obviously exagerrated, BTW. Even brahmins could not get away with stuff like that).

 

All in all, to me the basic point of the story is to highlight the unconditional mercy of Nitai Chand and that truly anyone can become a devotee.

Citta Hari Dasa - October 22, 2009 2:57 am
I'm currently reading Sri Nityananda Caritamrta by Srila Vrindavana Dasa Thakura. I'm having difficulty with the description of the deliverance of Jagain and Madhai. Please share your insights or comments.

 

1. Lord Caitanya sent Nityananda and Haridasa out to ask people to chant Krsna's name and worship Him. He told them that those who did not accept the name He would destroy with his sudarsana weapon. Nityananda and Haridasa smiled because they knew that no one could disobey the order of Krsna.



1. Doesn't killing people seem a bit extreme for not accepting the instruction of worshipping Krsna? Especially as these are residents of Navadvipa?

 

2. Even if in the end everyone is following Krsna's instruction, why would such an instruction make Nityananda and Haridasa smile?

 

2. There were some householders who had been locked out of the ecstatic kirtans of Lord Caitanya, I think at Advaita Acharya's house. When these people were approached by Nityananda and Haridasa with the order to chant Krsna's name, they cried out "Beat them! Beat them!"



Because it is mentioned that these people had been excluded, that seems to indicate that they had some desire to see the kirtans. It would seem a common human reaction to be bitter about their exclusion, but now they are at risk for being killed by Lord Caitanya because of it. It, to me, all seems a bit unfair.

 

3. Jagai and Madhai were the worst of sinners, and their rap sheet includes crimes such as arson, murder, theft, and rape. Nityananda chose to deliver them to highlight Mahaprabhu's power and mercy.



1. What about all of the rest of the sinners? We know of the close associates of Mahaprabhu who were nitya-siddhas, and these two who were terrible sinners. That leaves a large class of people who are more like most of us (I think) who are neither saints nor murderers. Nityananda and Haridasa would tell them to chant, then walk away. Why should such terrible sinners be more fortunate than regular people trying to live a reasonable life?

 

2. What about all those whom Jagai and Madhai had hurt with their behavior? Imagine if you were one of the women that they had raped. Now Nityananda delivers them and they are embraced by Mahaprabhu and given the boon of devotional service. Would you ever be able to look at Mahaprabhu again without feeling a knot in the pit of your stomach? How would you feel to see those two former sinners parading around as saints of the highest order? What would you feel if you knew that they had been liberated and you were still living with your pain?

 

To me, the overall point of the story is that Mahaprabhu is able to easily deliver any one for even the smallest act of service to him (Jagai preventing Madhai from hitting Nityananda again.) I'm having trouble with the rest of the story.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

When Mahaprabhu said he would kill anyone who did not take up the chanting, we may also consider that it was the Visnu in him who was speaking as the bringer of the yuga-dharma. It is the Visnu in Krsna who kills the asuras and in the process they are purified as they die and thus gain mukti out of contact with Krsna. Nityananda and Haridasa perhaps smiled seeing the mood of Mahaprabhu knowing he would not really kill anyone--similar to when Prabhupada said things like "I kick on their face with boots." He never really did it.