Tattva-viveka
There is no other way x3
Gopakumara Das - June 30, 2010 3:17 pm
I am not claiming that this is some profound realization or anything... in fact it is slightly embarrassing that I come to this 15 years after visiting my first Gaudiya temple & getting my first Gaudiya book. However, I realized something yesterday that I felt as significant.
When I wake up I will often get online to check email (hopefully something from Gurumaharaja?!?!?!..probably not today), check the Harmonist (anything interesting to read? Any new comments? Did anyone respond to mine? Do I have something to say about that? Write something....why am I writing something?), check Tattva-Viveka (anything new? Scan for Swami posts, Brahma posts, godsiblings posts... Again, did anyone respond to mine? Probably not... you're not THAT important....), Check Harmonist again....maybe something new just got approved... Nope. OH! Go to Swami.org.... read an old SANGA archive... awesome. That was a good one... Search Swami BV Tripurari on Google (that's nice..., saw that..., what? should I reply to that? why would I reply to that?), check Chakra or Sampradaya Sun (why do I check these? nothing really there, ever). Oh well, gotta go to work.
This is what I call my Devotional Mania... like other forms of mania it is a defense against internal awareness and a redirecting toward activity and motion. Spiritual content, yet meaningless process. I realize... I have this time... I could be doing sadhana. Just a subtle turn inward, to my mantras, to Nama, and all of a sudden something is happening, something substantive, something lovely and grounding or ungrounding (even better). Why don't I do this more often? I know why, it requires awareness, effort, and contact with my internal state. It creates awareness of how far i have NOT gotten after 15 years, it takes effort to shut out stimulations (internal and external), and makes me aware of so many subtle emotions that live inside... not the least of which is... I miss Gurumaharaja... I chose and continue to choose separation from him, and my Devotional Mania is an attempt to collapse this sad awareness and make it magically 'not-so' (what do you mean...I read him all the time!). Did anyone notice the irony yet? I finished my mantras and instead of chanting nama I decided to post this? For who's benefit? Who really cares about my little (and obvious) realization? Hare Nama, Hare nama, hare name eva kevalam....
Well, thought I would share anyway... out of time. Need to go get busy with my day. Please share your thoughts... it will give me something to read later!!!
Madan Gopal Das - June 30, 2010 11:39 pm
I think these are very nice realizations brother. My behavior mirrors yours in a lot of ways. I have experienced the benefit of gradually training the mind, for example to chant a certain amount in the morning before you will allow yourself to turn on the computer. The mind is kind of an animal though - to change behavior you can't be all discipline, there must be rewards for successes and rather than punishment for failures, maybe more realistic goal setting.
Also, I think it's important to not be too hard on oneself. After all, if by circumstance we are in the terrible state of separation from GM, it is praiseworthy and beneficial to be constantly seeking his association through whatever form is available. I don't know that there is a better way to "collapse" that awareness of separation (sad as it may be) than by putting yourself in his association through "sound". Believe me, GM lives in his sound.
Gopakumara Das - July 1, 2010 2:18 pm
I think these are very nice realizations brother. My behavior mirrors yours in a lot of ways. I have experienced the benefit of gradually training the mind, for example to chant a certain amount in the morning before you will allow yourself to turn on the computer. The mind is kind of an animal though - to change behavior you can't be all discipline, there must be rewards for successes and rather than punishment for failures, maybe more realistic goal setting.Also, I think it's important to not be too hard on oneself. After all, if by circumstance we are in the terrible state of separation from GM, it is praiseworthy and beneficial to be constantly seeking his association through whatever form is available. I don't know that there is a better way to "collapse" that awareness of separation (sad as it may be) than by putting yourself in his association through "sound". Believe me, GM lives in his sound.
thanks Madan Gopal.. I agree that Gurumaharaja is living in his sound. However, I think that something I neglected to really drive home is the realization that I can go through my whole life without ever changing my internal world and that only through contemplative Harinama, with the blessing of Srila Gurumaharaja, can real change happen. The difference is such a subtle shift inward...such a nuanced difference... imperceivable to anyone else. Without this there is no mysticism... only religion. In the guise of spirituality, I might only achieve religion-consciousness rather than Govinda-consciousness. Of course the exception would be if mercy came and changed us nevertheless, despite us.
Madan Gopal Das - July 1, 2010 3:48 pm
only through contemplative Harinama, with the blessing of Srila Gurumaharaja, can real change happen. Without this there is no mysticism... only religion.
I gotcha now... totally agree. Harinama and GM's orientation towards nama must be brought inwards, cultivated, made to effect us, rather than just contacted. Otherwise it can become just another dogma, an external affiliation... Wise thoughts Gopa.
Babhru Das - July 1, 2010 7:47 pm
Without this there is no mysticism... only religion.
I like this. Thanks.
Swami - July 2, 2010 12:59 am
Interesting and so true. I believe that thouhghts like this will help one do the needful to go inward (nice in there!). Good to discus them.
Gopakumara Das - July 2, 2010 2:44 am
Interesting and so true. I believe that thouhghts like this will help one do the needful to go inward (nice in there!). Good to discus them.
However, It took years of sadhana, sadhu sanga, and ultimately a LOT of psychotherapy before I could quiet my mind enough to go in there. I must say Gurumaharaja, it may have been nice in your insides but mine were not so lovely. In fact, i'd like a temporary VISA to visit yours. To be quiet, solitary, contemplative, and not assaulted by internal forces, is a developmental achievement. I think we all need to encourage sadhakas (myself included) to do the needful –spiritually and psychologically– to arrive at this possibility.
Citta Hari Dasa - July 2, 2010 4:52 pm
I think we all need to encourage sadhakas (myself included) to do the needful –spiritually and psychologically– to arrive at this possibility.
Spirituality and psychology are linked; it seems to me that sadhana and therapy are similar in the sense that in both there is a stage of profound pain involved on one's way to becoming a whole person. Smelting gold ore means lots of heat, and the fire of sadhana can be an uncomfortable place at times. The heat causes our impurities rise to the surface, which is usually not very pretty. Doing the needful involves cultivating the detachment to live with such pain and to actively skim off the impurities as they arise. The trick of course is to stay in the fire long enough to be melted.
Gopakumara Das - July 4, 2010 3:59 am
Spirituality and psychology are linked; it seems to me that sadhana and therapy are similar in the sense that in both there is a stage of profound pain involved on one's way to becoming a whole person. Smelting gold ore means lots of heat, and the fire of sadhana can be an uncomfortable place at times. The heat causes our impurities rise to the surface, which is usually not very pretty. Doing the needful involves cultivating the detachment to live with such pain and to actively skim off the impurities as they arise. The trick of course is to stay in the fire long enough to be melted.
There may be overlap and similarities, but there is a difference between sadhana and psychotherapy. Having done both...I can see the benefit of both. Plus... from what I see of myself and fellow sadhakas... there is no bigger barrier to doing sadhana than unresolved personal psychology. No question of melting if we don't enter the fire. I think we can see from the Western Gaudiya movement that the sadhana solution to insanity has been generally ineffective.
Tadiya Dasi - July 4, 2010 5:22 am
Plus... from what I see of myself and fellow sadhakas... there is no bigger barrier to doing the sadhana.... other than personal psychological barriers. No question of melting if we don't enter the fire.
While I readily admit that mental health issues - especially serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia for instance - can hinder or slow down one's ability to "take advantage" of the blessings that bhakti-devi offers, I would nonetheless like to emphasize that she (bhakti-devi) is independent and psychological barriers can't hold her down if she is willing to enter our hearts by the grace of Guru and Gauranga. I think this is an important point - and a very comforting point - to remember.
Psychological 'barriers' - be they childhood traumas, history of abuse or something else that results in one "having issues" like depression, sorrow, hopelessness, lack of self-esteem and so on - can serve as negative impetus for spiritual life. Krishna himself speaks of this in the Gita (7.16) when he says that the distressed approach him.
There is no perfect happiness available in the material world - even the most "sane" and balanced person will experience sorrow and other kinds of psychological pain. While psychotherapy and other kinds of 'methods' that aim for the psychological growth and well being of a person can be important and helpful - they are not required to make progress in the path of bhakti.
I say, take your meds, go to therapy, write to your journal, talk to a friend - do whatever helps you but don't lose sight of the fact that the reach of bhakti-devi is so deep and goes so low that ultimately her influence on us is much bigger, much deeper and much more powerful than that of any of our psychological 'issues' or 'barriers' or any other 'stumbling blocks' in our path. And thank God for that!
Bhakti-devi ki jaya!
Tadiya Dasi - July 4, 2010 5:36 am
I think we can see from the Western Gaudiya movement that the sadhana solution to insanity has been generally ineffective.
Gopakumar das,
I see that you edited your post slightly and added the above sentence while I was writing a reply. I agree with you on that thought. It's insanity to say to an 'insane' person to stop taking their medication and to "just chant and be happy" instead. It doesn't work that well on the practical level of life and probably doesn't help the person's chanting either 
However, that person - however insane he or she might be and no matter how crazy he or she makes others around him/her feel - will be making progress spiritually if he or she is indeed chanting Harinama.
Devyah-pati Das SERBIA - July 4, 2010 11:26 am
My sadhana is like follows:
1.) I turn on computer
2.) I go to last GM phone call I have downloaded and I listen to it,
or I listen to the lecture of GM, from where I stopped yesterday
3.) At the same time I take my breakfast
This is my morning ritual. I do not want to listen even to my chanting
before I hear GM speaking about Krsna. This is for me like oppening
of the door of Krsna consciousness. I cannot open them from this side,
so I am putting myself in a position that he can open them for me by
his divine instructions.
In this way his divine voice is entering through my ears to my heart,
and those instructions and realizations stay with me whole day long.
At the same time I take my breakfast, so the food is entering my
stomach, making my body able to live and move; and my listening
to the GM voice is making my soul alive and able to move in the
spiritual direction during that day.
Then I can do some chanting, reading, Krsna consciouss net surfing,
(Tattva Viveka, Harmonist, sanga,...), but for myself, as I have said
on this forum few times, the most important and most inspiering
thing is listening to GM.
I think that Krsna put me in this position that I am many thousands
of miles from GM, and without health, and without money to travel
and visit places where he stays,... just to increase my desire to come
one day in his (vapu) company. Still, I feel myself not qualified to be
close to him, cause I may commit some offences, so this position is
the best for me for the present moment.
I am listening to all he ever said - lectures and phone calls. I read his
books and articles, and net posts.
In this way I am trying to catch his mood and to follow him internaly,
so that one day, when Krsna will make this arrangement for me to
come in GM company, that all will already be clear, that I know what are
his desires, how to act in the company of GM, what he likes and dislikes,
what he said on this and that topic, and in this way to be his attentive
and useful servant.