Tattva-viveka
State of the world
Priya-narma Dasi - March 6, 2011 5:47 pm
I apologize if it seems I am dragging my feet with my words; I am not that good at being concise. I also apologize if I have overlooked a similar thread that has already gone over this topic.
I have had a question for some time, but have been unsure if it was worth posting about. It has come and gone from my day to day consciousness but now seems to be looming more steadily. I was embarrassed to ask since I was worried that some people would think I was letting my mind get unnecessarily distracted.
My question stems from the state of the world. I look around and see chaos, war, and corruption. I see the rights of people being deviantly stripped away from them and the ability for people to stand up for what is right lessening with every day. I look at the planet, how we've poisoned it and how we've made parts of it unlivable. I see shifts in weather patterns and big changes unseen in previous generations. I don't know why, but I sense that something will happen in my lifetime. I don't know if it will be the economy caving in on itself or some kind of mass natural disaster. What I do sense is that our way of life will change. So my question is this: As devotees how are we to act if or when our way of life changes? I don't think I am being unreasonable when I say that most people don't know how to take care of themselves. Then with that in mind I don't think it unreasonable to think that people would act violently to survive. How are we to act when our way of life may be met with violence?
I understand that I live in the age of Kali Yuga and that you could call it normal to see the events that are unfolding around us. I know I should live without worry so that I am not clouded or consumed by it, so that I don't stop living. Though I hope for the best, I also cant help but feel I am mentally preparing for the worst. I think about what will matter and how to survive. I think that there are so many things we have attached ourselves to which wont endure and that so many of us don't know how to live without them. Also that we truly don't know how to take care of ourselves. It is scary to think about, but I feel that these thoughts aren't unreasonable.
I am asking these questions for the same reason I would take a CPR class. I want to know what to do and how to do it if the state of the world crumbles. I want to be ready even if I never have to use the skills I may learn.
I look forward to hearing any peoples thoughts on this subject.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 6, 2011 6:26 pm
I apologize if it seems I am dragging my feet with my words; I am not that good at being concise. I also apologize if I have overlooked a similar thread that has already gone over this topic.
I have had a question for some time, but have been unsure if it was worth posting about. It has come and gone from my day to day consciousness but now seems to be looming more steadily. I was embarrassed to ask since I was worried that some people would think I was letting my mind get unnecessarily distracted.
My question stems from the state of the world. I look around and see chaos, war, and corruption. I see the rights of people being deviantly stripped away from them and the ability for people to stand up for what is right lessening with every day. I look at the planet, how we've poisoned it and how we've made parts of it unlivable. I see shifts in weather patterns and big changes unseen in previous generations. I don't know why, but I sense that something will happen in my lifetime. I don't know if it will be the economy caving in on itself or some kind of mass natural disaster. What I do sense is that our way of life will change. So my question is this: As devotees how are we to act if or when our way of life changes? I don't think I am being unreasonable when I say that most people don't know how to take care of themselves. Then with that in mind I don't think it unreasonable to think that people would act violently to survive. How are we to act when our way of life may be met with violence?
I understand that I live in the age of Kali Yuga and that you could call it normal to see the events that are unfolding around us. I know I should live without worry so that I am not clouded or consumed by it, so that I don't stop living. Though I hope for the best, I also cant help but feel I am mentally preparing for the worst. I think about what will matter and how to survive. I think that there are so many things we have attached ourselves to which wont endure and that so many of us don't know how to live without them. Also that we truly don't know how to take care of ourselves. It is scary to think about, but I feel that these thoughts aren't unreasonable.
I am asking these questions for the same reason I would take a CPR class. I want to know what to do and how to do it if the state of the world crumbles. I want to be ready even if I never have to use the skills I may learn.
I look forward to hearing any peoples thoughts on this subject.
In modern recorded history, there have always been problems, so it is expected that these problems will happen. We need to focus on creating alternatives like GM is creating in madhuvan. Even atheists realize that unlimited desires and limited resources will make it difficult for humans to survive. Hopefully things on the article on renewable energy will come true by 2050.
If you examine any period of time from 1 AD onwards corruption, despots abounded. Perhaps the farmers were simple people and the greed was confined to autocrats or corrupts priests in Vatican etc. Now perhaps more people are affected by corruption etc and there is more population, so you feel it more.
Guru-nistha Das - March 8, 2011 4:39 pm
Priya,
although the aim of Audarya or Madhuvan is not to prepare for the "end days" our lifestyle trains us up for harder times as a side product. We are learning skills that are for the big part completely lost in the modern world.
But who knows what will happen and I think it can definitely be a distraction to focus on these issues too much. It seems like religiously minded people are often prone to entertaining catastrophy scenarios because it gives a sense of urgency and purpose. But still it's evident that things seem to be going in a bad direction.
One thing that is good to remember is that for Hindus the end of the world is not the end of the world. There will always be problems in the world no matter what. Sometimes the problems are bigger, sometimes smaller. If this world will blow up or hit another ice age, we will simply be born in a different environment where we can continue our progress from where we left off. So better to just focus on your practice and wait for the end days of your material life instead. 
The question of responding to violence in extreme times is a tricky one. Personally I would defend our lifestyle by any means necessary but I hope to god it will never be necessary.
Priya-narma Dasi - March 8, 2011 11:06 pm
Thank you for your comments. I agree that here has been many struggles in the past, and that problems have presented themselves historically that have affected many people. I cannot know for sure what is to come until what comes happens. I dont plan to live in fear but plan to live in further awareness. For me its like hearing a weather report stating there is a chance of rain and the reporter suggests that you consider keeping an umbrella on hand. For me I would not be surpised if it starts raining (or global change), and simularrly even without hearing a weather report I am sensitive enough to pick up on some of the subtle changes in temprature, humidity and the pressure in my joints that tell me a storm may be brewing.
Nistha, I know the aim of Audarya and Madhuvan is not a preperation for so called end days. I know that they serve the purpose of providing us with a spiritually condusive enviroment that is so much more free of distactions than we might find anywhere else. We also have many opportunies of service in these environments than we might find anywhere else. We strengthen eachothers faith by working together and can inspire eachother stay in the fire of devotion.
I am trying to not be distracted by what I sense. I have talked to my family and they would also say they would not be surprised if something happened in our lifetime. We haven't stopped living and aren't hording away for an end that may not come. We just have started to think differently. We think of ways that would reduce adding to the problems of the world. We have also started thinking about our carbon footprint, since we realize it affects more than the planets health, but that it can affect who holds the power by us voting with our dollars.
Violence is one thing that scares me. I have always been unsure of how to respond to it and generally would rather flee or hide than face it headon. Being who I am and holding dear my spiritual practices I am curious what the right answer is based on the path I am on as a Devotee. I know to keep in mind that upon death I will simply be born into an environment I can continue to make progress. I am surprised to find that I am strangly attatched to not having a senseless death. I also have a strong will to survive, so I dont know where to draw the line. For example, if survival is all you have time to live for, or are fully consumed by it, is there a point where it is senseless to keep living and it would be better to let go of the attchment of living? Then at that point the best answer would be rebirth?
The road ahead is unclear but I am hoping in time to have some of these questions answered so that if met with such situations I may already know how to respond.
Audarya-lila Dasa - March 9, 2011 12:37 am
There are a lot of 'primitive survivalist' skills that can be easiliy learned. Probably not a bad idea to have some in the devotional community who are familiar with these types of skills should they ever be needed. More important than worrying about dying a senseless death is trying to make sure we live meaningful lives. Death is certain, but a life full of meaning (devotion) isn't.
I don't think this time is particularly precarious as compared to previous times. When food and water are scarce then certainly trouble begins as there are those who think along survivalist lines and on that basis would have no problem with the idea and practice of 'kill or be killed'. But practically speaking - who can predict the future? The best practical thing you can do is prepare yourself for eternal life by focusing on seva. If you can get to the point of actually realizing the extent to which you exist (direct quote of Guru Maharaja), then all your fear will subside and you will know what to do.
Krsna Caitanya Das - March 9, 2011 4:43 pm
I think it is good for one to take into account the world situation and then figure out what can be done about it. For those things that we cannot do anything about, try not to worry about it so much. But, if there is something we can do, try to do it. End times or not, I think there could be a lot gained by learning how to live off the land and any skills that are related to that. Instead of having a hobby that costs money, you can have a hobby that brings in food and trade-able goods. Eventually that hobby could turn into a way of life. That is what happened to me. We initially had a milk cow so we could have our own milk. We had a bull calf, so I trained him as an ox. We always had all the dairy we needed and the ox powered the garden and brought in firewood. After a while, we figured out if I just milked a couple of more cows, we could trade and sell the milk and it could be a little home grown business. I don't think it is too complicated. If you get some skills, some land, have a house, and have a water source, you have about all that you need.
My wife and I are also concerned about the tribulations going on in the world and in the US. As others have said, the main thing is to engage in our spiritual practice, but I also have my wife, children and cows to worry about. So we are trying to sell our house so that we can get out of our mortgage and either put our money into land with no mortgage, or at least a cheaper one. We are hoping to team up with others to get something going in Asheville. I think the best thing that people could do to help out the world is take to Krishna consciousness and combine that with a simple agrarian lifestyle. This was something that Srila Prabhupada tried to establish in his time here and seemed to put a lot of emphasis on, to the point of trying to come to the US on his death bed to how the devotees in Gita-nagari how to live off the land. I think Swami's projects also follow in this line.
In relation to possible violence, I think about how in Krishna-lila they decided to move from Mahavan to Vrindavan because there were so many demons coming around. It is said that they put all of their belongings on ox carts and then the cowherd men surrounded the caravan armed with bows and arrows. It makes me think that if it comes down to it, I need to be able to do something to protect the cows and my family. I hope it never comes to that, but I know a devotee who told me how once in South Africa one of their cows was stolen from their field. They found the remains nearby. If people get desperate enough, such things might start to happen. I don't mean to paint a bleak picture. I don't necessarily think that things will get that bad. Ultimately everything is up to Krishna and I think the best thing to do is to get as close to him as possible.
Nitaisundara Das - March 9, 2011 6:15 pm
Haribol, Krsna Caitanya, wonderful to see you here! I like the tie to Vraja-lila. It's an endearing picture: the embodiments of the pinnacle of spiritual attainment crowding around their possession-full wagons with bows.
This is a nice discussion that is certainly worth some thought. I don't have much to contribute but I will say that when the economic crisis was at its peak and the news was talking about various dire scenarios we were discussing it here one day. It was a lighthearted discussion but GM made a statement about using guns to defend our cows if people came after them for food. He wasn't saying, "Let's get guns," but I did not take it to be a joke either. I think one must do the needful and at times that could mean violence, which would no doubt be difficult for most (hopefully all) bhaktas to do. Bhavananda shot someone defending the temple from Muslims(?) in Mayapura(?). < cant remember the details.
Madan Gopal Das - March 9, 2011 8:57 pm
This discussion is moot, the world is ending on May 21st of this year. I'm getting in my RV and drivin' to Audarya!
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 9, 2011 9:08 pm
This discussion is moot, the world is ending on May 21st of this year. I'm getting in my RV and drivin' to Audarya!
Pretty much what Bhagavat Maharaja is doing by predicting nuclear war, world war etc.
Certainly these may happen, and we can prepare for that scenario, but I don't believe in people who have set exact dates in 2011 or 2012 or 2006(bhagavat maharaja's nuclear war that never fructified so far).
Krsna Caitanya Das - March 9, 2011 10:59 pm
For at least the first 5 years or more that I lived out in Prabhupada Village, every year there was a new forecast for some apocalyptic event. Many times it was an astrological forecast. "There will be a war in July." One year there was a huge comet in the sky. One year it was Y2K. Each year it came and went. There were meetings trying to get people interested in preparing for these events, but not much ever came of it. Some people stored a lot of food. But now all of that food is over 10 years old and they are trying to get rid of it. I don't think any of the people I know who were motivated by the end-times idea ever did much to establish any type of sustainable living.
Anyway, the idea of putting one date as the time everything falls apart is kind of funny. But sometimes I think that these funny predictions can make us think that considering disaster preparedness is an irrational idea. I don't think it is. We have seen hurricanes, tornadoes, snow storms, floods, earthquakes and other events that have caused great havoc in peoples' lives. I don't think it is a bad idea to try and live a lifestyle that would probably be less susceptible to any upheaval, little or big.
In the 2nd chapter of the 12th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam there are some general predictions that have already started to come true. There are also others that may or may not come in our lifetime. SB 12.2.8-9:"Harassed by famine and excessive taxes, people will resort to eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. Struck by drought, they will become completely ruined. The citizens will suffer greatly from cold, wind, heat, rain and snow. They will be further tormented by quarrels, hunger, thirst, disease and severe anxiety."
Nitaisundara Das - March 9, 2011 11:38 pm
Oh wow, Family Radio. Sometimes I have listened to their radio station with the old man who came up with this whole 5/21/2011 thing. It will be interesting to see how they react. I want to tune in on5/20 and then on 5/22. Citta Hari does an excellent impression of the guy, by the way...
Nitaisundara Das - March 9, 2011 11:42 pm
From the article: "My favorite pastime is coon hunting," he says, referring to the raccoons he targets in rural Kansas. "I had to give that up, but this is far more important."
God bless America!
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 10, 2011 1:41 am
SB 12.2.8-9:"Harassed by famine and excessive taxes, people will resort to eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. Struck by drought, they will become completely ruined. The citizens will suffer greatly from cold, wind, heat, rain and snow. They will be further tormented by quarrels, hunger, thirst, disease and severe anxiety."
I had a question what else is there to eat apart from the above? The ice age seemed to have occurred in "better" ages before "Kali".
Krsna Caitanya Das - March 10, 2011 3:21 am
I had a question what else is there to eat apart from the above?
That's a good point. On the one hand it doesn't sound so bad, eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. I think maybe the point is that people could only eat what they can find growing wild with a drought and famine going on. I know if I had to survive on what I could find in the woods right now, it would be pretty rough. Also missing is milk and grains.
Here is an elaboration on the above verses from a lecture Srila Prabhupada gave on SB 1.16.22:
"So rainfall will be practically very, very little. Anāvṛṣṭi. And another difficulty will be kara-pīḍitāḥ. One side there will be famine, scarcity of food, no rainfall, and another side, there will be excessive taxation by the government. So people will be so much disturbed. Because you (indistinct) no food. You are... There is scarcity of rain, you cannot produce food. And at the same time, government will give some morsel of food and levy taxes. So durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ [sB 12.2.9], disturbed, yāsyanti giri-kānanam, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being disgusted, they will give up their family and children, separated, and they will go to the forest or the hills. This is another. And another will be, there will be no more available these foodgrains, especially wheat, rice and milk. These will be finished."
When is the ice age said to have happened?
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 10, 2011 8:17 am
That's a good point. On the one hand it doesn't sound so bad, eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. I think maybe the point is that people could only eat what they can find growing wild with a drought and famine going on. I know if I had to survive on what I could find in the woods right now, it would be pretty rough. Also missing is milk and grains.
Here is an elaboration on the above verses from a lecture Srila Prabhupada gave on SB 1.16.22:
"So rainfall will be practically very, very little. Anāvṛṣṭi. And another difficulty will be kara-pīḍitāḥ. One side there will be famine, scarcity of food, no rainfall, and another side, there will be excessive taxation by the government. So people will be so much disturbed. Because you (indistinct) no food. You are... There is scarcity of rain, you cannot produce food. And at the same time, government will give some morsel of food and levy taxes. So durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ [sB 12.2.9], disturbed, yāsyanti giri-kānanam, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being disgusted, they will give up their family and children, separated, and they will go to the forest or the hills. This is another. And another will be, there will be no more available these foodgrains, especially wheat, rice and milk. These will be finished."
When is the ice age said to have happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Major_ice_ages
The next well-documented ice age, and probably the most severe of the last billion years, occurred from 850 to 630 million years ago (the Cryogenian period) and may have produced a Snowball Earth in which glacial ice sheets reached the equator,[32] possibly being ended by the accumulation of greenhouse gases such as CO2 produced by volcanoes. "The presence of ice on the continents and pack ice on the oceans would inhibit both silicate weathering and photosynthesis, which are the two major sinks for CO2 at present."[33] It has been suggested that the end of this ice age was responsible for the subsequent Ediacaran and Cambrian Explosion, though this model is recent and controversial.
A minor ice age, the Andean-Saharan, occurred from 460 to 430 million years ago, during the Late Ordovician and the Silurian period. There were extensive polar ice caps at intervals from 350 to 260 million years ago in South Africa during the Carboniferous and early Permian Periods, associated with the Karoo Ice Age. Correlatives are known from Argentina, also forming in the center of the ancient supercontinent Gondwanaland.
The Karoo Ice Age occurred from 360 to 260 million years ago. It is named after the glacial tills found in the Karoo region of South Africa where evidence for this ice age was first clearly identified. It is thought that this ice age was largely caused by the evolution of land plants with the onset of the Devonian period. The Earth during this time was covered with an immense degree of vegetation compared to earlier times, and this caused a long term increase in planetary oxygen levels and reduction of CO2 levels that resulted in this ice age.
An ice sheet on Antarctica began to grow some 20 million years ago. The current ice age, the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation, started about 2.58 million years ago during the late Pliocene when the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere Within the ice ages (or at least within the current one), more temperate and more severe periods occur. The colder periods are called glacial periods, the warmer periods interglacials, such as the Eemian Stage.
Glacials are characterized by cooler and drier climates over most of the Earth and large land and sea ice masses extending outward from the poles. Mountain glaciers in otherwise unglaciated areas extend to lower elevations due to a lower snow line. Sea levels drop due to the removal of large volumes of water above sea level in the icecaps. There is evidence that ocean circulation patterns are disrupted by glaciations. Since the Earth has significant continental glaciation in the Arctic and Antarctic, we are currently in a glacial minimum of a glaciation. Such a period between glacial maxima is known as an interglacial.began. Since then, the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales called glacial periods, glacials or glacial advances, and interglacial periods, interglacials or glacial retreats. The earth is currently in an interglacial, and the last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. All that remains of the continental ice sheets are the Greenland, Antarctic ice sheets and smaller glaciers such as on Baffin Island.
So it is hard to know how good it was in previous ages and if was just a question of lesser population with nature taking care of things with natural calamities.
Swami - March 15, 2011 4:30 am
The state of the world just got a lot worse. Imagine the pain of the Japanese people now. If you can't, it may catch up to you eventually anyway. When an industrially developed nation goes down, the rest of world will be affected.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 15, 2011 5:00 am
I don't want to argue with it because the state of the world is indeed very bad. However in 2004 also there was a tsunami and we had problems in agrarian less developed economies in Indonesia where most of the affected people lived as they were living in 18th century. The current human population of the world is much more than ever before, so people will be hit by these things. I am not so sure that the current problem and calamities would have been avoided if we were in the 16th century either. Historical record in India is full of people dying of plague, child birth, sati, small pox, famine, earth quakes, malaria, oppression of sudras.
Can we really demonstrate that modern world led to the tsunami and earthquakes and they never occurred earlier when people were living in agrarian economy. It makes sense to strike to balance to live with simple means and use something like renewable energy generation, which is being done in madhuvan.
The state of the world is bad is never denied by any sane person. It is just that whether it is much worse than previous time in every respect. That is a harder question to answer. Yes, according to most devotees this is the worst time and in previous ages everything was a golden utopia but evidence for that is pretty weak even from the scripture itself.
Krsna Caitanya Das - March 15, 2011 4:59 pm
I think that some of the ways that the modern world has more difficulty have to do with technology. In Japan, for instance, there is the problem with the nuclear plants. That would not have been a complication of a natural disaster in the past. Also, in an agrarian society, more people are engaged in agriculture, so you have more food available locally. I think with the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and the first Industrial Revolution onward, there has been a somewhat steady trend away from God and to more and more production of unnecessary stuff. Some of the results being that there is more pollution, more disconnect with nature, more competition for money and resources, etc.
I agree that we can't say for sure whether or not past ages were golden, but I think there is enough evidence to show that the modern way of life brought about by the advance of technology hasn't really done so much to improve life. It has made us dependent on so many artificial things that now there are many more ways that things can go wrong.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 15, 2011 5:32 pm
I think that some of the ways that the modern world has more difficulty have to do with technology. In Japan, for instance, there is the problem with the nuclear plants. That would not have been a complication of a natural disaster in the past. Also, in an agrarian society, more people are engaged in agriculture, so you have more food available locally. I think with the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and the first Industrial Revolution onward, there has been a somewhat steady trend away from God and to more and more production of unnecessary stuff. Some of the results being that there is more pollution, more disconnect with nature, more competition for money and resources, etc.
I agree that we can't say for sure whether or not past ages were golden, but I think there is enough evidence to show that the modern way of life brought about by the advance of technology hasn't really done so much to improve life. It has made us dependent on so many artificial things that now there are many more ways that things can go wrong.
I agree technology is a double edged sword. It has side effects, but people used to die in the cold without electricity generation in Japan in agrarian society. Maybe that was better in one sense. I feel we have to strike a balance, like we are doing in Madhuvan. We just need to see that the population in a country like India was 200 million in 1800 and stayed more or less same till 1900 due to high death rate and it has increased to 1.1 billion people now and that arguably happened only because of low infant mortality rate and vaccination. However, like you pointed out mad capitalism with technology has created a lot of side effects making it unsustainable.
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/india/population.pdf
You can see how not so long back in 2004 there was a tsunami in agrarian countries with no nuclear plants that killed 230,000 people in poor areas that did not even have electricity access. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_O...ake_and_tsunami Can we blame technology for that also? The earthquake was caused by subduction and triggered a series of devastating tsunamis along the coasts of most landmasses bordering the Indian Ocean, killing over 230,000 people in fourteen countries, and inundating coastal communities with waves up to 30 meters (100 feet) high.[5] It was one of the deadliest natural disasters in recorded history. Indonesia was the hardest hit, followed by Sri Lanka, India, and Thailand.
Swami - March 15, 2011 5:50 pm
I don't think anyone is blaming the earthquake on technology.
Also while 230,000 people died from a tsunami in an agrarian society, we have yet to see how many will die in Japan. It seems unlikely that it will reach such a high number, but other effects will be felt around the world that were not felt in the tsunamis/earthquakes of previous times. Japan is the world's 3rd largest economy. Much more than 230,000 people are on edge right now. We do not know how far reaching the effects will be, but more than 230,000 people will at least be affected adversely. That seems certain.
Technology is of course neutral. It needs to be in the hands of sensible people. I my opinion, sensible people are not those who see material acquisition as the goal of life, nor are they religious fanatics, Gaudiya or otherwise. What to do?
I think the "technology or not" argument comes up in this issue with regard to nuclear power. There is room for plenty of sensible technological development short of nuclear power. Lately it had been getting a new lean on life with considerable environmental support, but the fallout from Japan is changing the winds in the other direction.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 15, 2011 6:19 pm
I don't think anyone is blaming the earthquake on technology.
Also while 230,000 people died from a tsunami in an agrarian society, we have yet to see how many will die in Japan. It seems unlikely that it will reach such a high number, but other effects will be felt around the world that were not felt in the tsunamis/earthquakes of previous times. Japan is the world's 3rd largest economy. Much more than 230,000 people are on edge right now. We do not know how far reaching the effects will be, but more than 230,000 people will at least be affected adversely. That seems certain.
Technology is of course neutral. It needs to be in the hands of sensible people. I my opinion, sensible people are not those who see material acquisition as the goal of life, nor are they religious fanatics, Gaudiya or otherwise. What to do?
I think the "technology or not" argument comes up in this issue with regard to nuclear power. There is room for plenty of sensible technological development short of nuclear power. Lately it had been getting a new lean on life with considerable environmental support, but the fallout from Japan is changing the winds in the other direction.
Thank you for your points GM. Religious fanatics need to use contraceptives to control children if they cant control their sexual urge instead of saying that it is God's plan (overlooking the fact that the burden children put on God's natural resources) and similarly capitalist technology monsters need to do their homework when they work out plans. As the article in harmonist showed, we have some good potential in using technology for renewable power. For example, we moved from big dams to micro-turbines now in more and more countries. There is a way to balance out things like you have pointed out.
Swami - March 16, 2011 12:57 am
"How many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes ‘n how many times must the nukes meltdown before they are forever band?"
Some of us were raised on such song.
Madan Gopal Das - March 16, 2011 1:42 am
Yes ‘n how many times must the nukes meltdown before they are forever band?"
Unfortunately I think the answer (my friend) is blowin' in the wind. 
How many lobbyists must be banned from our system before politicians are able to GET the impact of events like this? As long as $ is blowin' in the wind, there may continue to be radioactive clouds blowin' too.
Madan Gopal Das - March 21, 2011 1:43 am
It seems like the only long-term answer to energy dilemma is reducing consumption, and that seems a very hard sell for the general population. Nuclear energy creeps me out but it also doesn't seem there's any "magic bullet" for solving the energy problems of the world. Here's a balanced commentary on nuke energy from a usually pretty thoughtful journalist: link
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 21, 2011 2:31 am
It seems like the only long-term answer to energy dilemma is reducing consumption, and that seems a very hard sell for the general population. Nuclear energy creeps me out but it also doesn't seem there's any "magic bullet" for solving the energy problems of the world. Here's a balanced commentary on nuke energy from a usually pretty thoughtful journalist: link
I had a discussion with my father on this issue who has 40 years experience in the power industry.
He basically said what Madan is saying about consumption.
He made the following points on alternate power
1) Thermal power: Too much of green house emission and very little coal reserves.
2) Nuclear power: This risk of radiation is there. However, when everything works well without earthquakes and tsunami, there is relatively less pollution than thermal power and uses less fuel.
3) Solar power: Very expensive to store energy. No energy available in the night.
4)Wind power: Very clean however needs a very reliable wind speed all through the year and it is hard.
Anyway nuclear power is not so much of a demon as it made out to be. Tsunami and Earthquake combination was just a bit too much.
Madan Gopal Das - March 21, 2011 12:49 pm
While nuclear energy is "clean" energy, it is hardly clean or healthy when nature intervenes. One thing I thought was humorous in the video I posted was that he emphasizes that in the "decades" we've been utilizing nuclear power there have only been a few major accidents. That's great and all, it does have a better track record for illness and deaths related to usage, accidents, maintenance, etc. What I think is interesting however is the lack of future consideration. We've only been using nuke power for decades... but nuke waste disposal is an enormous problem, and the stuff lasts for up to a million years!!! How are you going to successfully pass your maintenance problems on to 100's of generations in the future who are going to navigate their own share of political and natural disasters?
The only answer is go within, AND go without - without an unsustainable modern lifestyle.
Gaura-Vijaya Das - March 21, 2011 1:52 pm
While nuclear energy is "clean" energy, it is hardly clean or healthy when nature intervenes. One thing I thought was humorous in the video I posted was that he emphasizes that in the "decades" we've been utilizing nuclear power there have only been a few major accidents. That's great and all, it does have a better track record for illness and deaths related to usage, accidents, maintenance, etc. What I think is interesting however is the lack of future consideration. We've only been using nuke power for decades... but nuke waste disposal is an enormous problem, and the stuff lasts for up to a million years!!! How are you going to successfully pass your maintenance problems on to 100's of generations in the future who are going to navigate their own share of political and natural disasters?
The only answer is go within, AND go without - without an unsustainable modern lifestyle.
Yes perhaps so. People need to live in Finland and other cold countries without heat and without using automobiles. Will that really happen?
All this hue and cry about war in the modern world is as if there was no war before. All history is full of it as described in the Puranas.
Yes it is hardly clean when nature intervenes, but you will be cleaned anyway when nature intervenes. 
There are lot of technical challenges involved in using renewable energy and it is not so easy to replace everything. Also will people be willing to pay more for gas and power, if it becomes very expensive? No, they will complain that govt is not helping them much and increasing the prices.
People need to forego a lot and introspect to see their own consumption levels. Are people so unhappy about rich people at the top looting too much only because they want other to get their share in the enjoyment? If yes, there was no enjoyment for anyone apart from the Kings before. All others had to serve and tolerate even if they cannot enjoy the same facilities as a king. They let the king enjoy taking him to be representative of God and being content within themselves. I don't think most devotees will be able to live in that kind of system, given how left leaning they are.
Social justice, equal wealth distribution and concerns for these are a very modern phenomenon.