Tattva-viveka
Is the holy cow really holy for us
Yamuna Dasi - September 27, 2012 10:31 am
Dear devotees,
Recently I came to know a farmer of an eco farm, who is having cows and sheep. I have to admit that even though I am a vegetarian for 25 years, I was amazed to learn from him those things which I would like to share with you. I have to admit that till now I was really not realizing this very simple truth which he told me, and it was the following - by consuming milk and dairy products we inevitably have to perform a mass killing of cows and economically this is practically inevitable. There are two reasons why:
1. In order to give milk the cow must have calves, but half of the calves born are male, so they are sold to the butcher to be killed because bulls are of no use thus there is no reason why to be fed and taken care of. Just very few bulls are kept for procreation, all the rest are slaughtered for the meat.
2. From her 25 years of life (aproximately) the cow is giving milk for about 8-10 years anf then stops. Those cows who don't give milk any more are sold to the slaughter houses for meat.
By buying milk and dairy products we are of course supporting the milk and dairy products production, and it is going in THIS way. Thus we participate directly in the mass slaughtering of cows because milk production business and meat producing business are directly connected.
This made me ask myself the question: if we know this and still do it, then is the holy cow really holy for us if we are killing her male calves and herself also when she stops giving us what we want, her milk? Isn't this a hypocracy? Maybe most of us didn't think about this simple calculation and reality and were not aware about it because if meat eating is an obvious killing, milk consuming is not that much obvious killing, but in reality it is. We the humans are just incredible expoiters of just anything and everything and the moment in which we don't find somebody useful, we just kill him. What does this have to do with the love which we preach about?
If milk and dairy products production is such a bloody business, isn't it then more noble from our side not to be part of it and not to consume dairy products if the cost of these products is mass killing of cows? Of course we may say that we are offering the milk to Krishna and thus we do some good for the cows, but who sais that this is not a hypocracy? If we know that thus we support a killing business why should we support it by being it's clients and thus paying to the killers and take that bad karma of killing cows? I don't believe that we can be karma-free in this action just because we are closing our eyes for the cruel reality of milk production and offer the milk to Krishna before taking it. Isn't it more sincere if we claim to respect the holy cow then not to participate in her killing?
I hope you will share some thoughts and feelings on this. It really shaked me a lot.
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 27, 2012 8:04 pm
The best would be to eat diary products from protected cows. But it is not always possible. If you feel bad about buying milk from the shop, go vegan.
Yamuna Dasi - September 27, 2012 9:35 pm
Protected cows would mean cows whose male calves are not going to the slaughter house and also that when the cows stop giving milk they will also not go to the slaughter house. Do such cows exist at all?
Economically no farm can do it, because this would mean all the time to take care for growing number of bulls and old cows from which the farm has zero profit and a lot of expences to maintain them. The profit of such a farm would not be able to cover the ever growing expences and will go to bancrupcy. Do you know such a farm exists? Where?
Bhakti-rasa - September 28, 2012 12:21 am
Protected cows would mean cows whose male calves are not going to the slaughter house and also that when the cows stop giving milk they will also not go to the slaughter house. Do such cows exist at all?
Economically no farm can do it, because this would mean all the time to take care for growing number of bulls and old cows from which the farm has zero profit and a lot of expences to maintain them. The profit of such a farm would not be able to cover the ever growing expences and will go to bancrupcy. Do you know such a farm exists? Where?
Audarya in California and Madhuvan in Costa Rica, Balabhadra's farm in West Virginia, Gopalnandani and Krishnacaitanya in North Carolina, - those I know personally - who have protected cows. You have to plan on 20 acres for every milking cow (at the most). A cow's life span is around 20 years. A cow needs 1 acre of grass. If you have a calf every year for 20 years, by the time the 21st calf was born, the first original cow would have come to her natural death. (a cow can give milk for more than 1 year so you may not need to have a calf every year, but you should have the plan in place). So after 20 years, you will have a heard of 20 cows with 1 always milking.
Cows and bulls also offer more than milk - ox power, and manure, and the simple pleasure of taking care of Krishna's cows. Ox power is an important aspect of cow protection and an agrarian lifestyle.
Yamuna Dasi - September 28, 2012 7:17 am
In your calculation there are many mistakes:
1. The cow is not giving milk during all her life. From about 20 years of life it gives milk (and respectively calves) for about 10 years.
2. Ox power might be used maybe for agricultural purposes but it also requires man power involved and nowadays it is not economically effective to do it. If you use ox power to plough for example, first you will not be able to produce enough grains to cover the expences of the man power and maintaining the man and the ox.
3. The oxes also cannot work all their lives so you will have to maintain them even after they are not capable of being used for plaughing (for example).
4. Maintaining cows and bulls means also a lot of expences for the farmer for the obligatory vaxines and veterinary doctor. One is not allowed by the law to produce milk and dairy products and selling them if he is not following those requirements.
5. You calculate the feeding of the cow by grass this means free grazing, but this is not possible all the year at least not in most of the countries where there are 4 seasons, so during the whole winter time there is no grass at all. Thus the farmer has to prepare huge quantities of dry grass plus to buy a lot of grains to be able to feed the cows during the winter time and this means a lot of work and expences for him. He must build huge dry and protected places where to keep in good condition the dry grass for all the winter for all his cows and oxes, and for example a single cow needs more than one ton of dry grass for one winter + grains which the farmer has to buy or produce and also have big built spaces to protect it in huge quantities for the winter time. He also will have to build more and more houses for the growing number of cows because in the winter they cannot survive if you leave them without closed shelter or food.
6. In a natural way the male calves born are aproximately half of the calves born, but the man needs more the milk of the cow than the ox power (if he would be able at all to find good and profitable application nowadays for ox power). But if he wants not to sell the male calves to the butcher, he will have to maintain a lot of oxes and not not so many milk giving cows. This will be the proportion which will come in a natural way, which means that he will have less than 1/4th of milk giving cows and the other 3/4 will be oxes and old cows.
7. The growing number of cows and oxes will force the farmer to expand and build all the time more and more houses for them and protected buildings for their food, and economically he would not be able to do it and will go to bancrupcy.
All these calculations were given to me by that eco farm owner. They show very clearly that practically there cannot be milk production without the elimination (killing) of the male calves and the old cows. The bancrupcy of such a farm is inevitable economically.
I have few questions:
1. Do the farms which you mentioned don't sell out their male calves?
2. If so do they find enough work for the oxes which to be enough to cover at least the expences of maintaining the oxes in their active lifetime and when they are old?
3. Do they maintain 50/50 % cows and oxes because this is the natural proportion of birth?
4. Do they maintain all the old cows and oxes?
5. Do they manage financially by themselves or they need to survive only on financial help from outside which has to be ever growing?
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 28, 2012 10:41 am
In your calculation there are many mistakes:
1. The cow is not giving milk during all her life. From about 20 years of life it gives milk (and respectively calves) for about 10 years.
Cows when properly maintained can give milk for almost whole their life. Only for commercial reasons farmers do not keep older cows. If someone needs milk only for the family one cow can fullfill their needs for many years without having a baby every year. I`m not speaking theory. I have even seen heifer giving milk (2-3 liters a day!) few months before she calved her first time. And on Polish ISKCON farm they had 23 years old cow who was giving milk in spite of injections to stop it (vet said it was not good for her health). Guiness record was the cow still giving milk when she was over 30!
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All these calculations were given to me by that eco farm owner. They show very clearly that practically there cannot be milk production without the elimination (killing) of the male calves and the old cows. The bancrupcy of such a farm is inevitable economically.
This is your answer- this guy is doing business with money earning as the only goal. Therefore other solutions seem too expensive to him. There are people though who think differently.... and there are such people even among nondevotees. If I have time I will search for great story of a farmer (perhaps from France) who decided all his animals deserve pension. So from each liter of milk and each egg he saves some money for future maintnance of the animal. And his business is going well.
I have few questions:
1. Do the farms which you mentioned don't sell out their male calves?
2. If so do they find enough work for the oxes which to be enough to cover at least the expences of maintaining the oxes in their active lifetime and when they are old?
3. Do they maintain 50/50 % cows and oxes because this is the natural proportion of birth?
4. Do they maintain all the old cows and oxes?
5. Do they manage financially by themselves or they need to survive only on financial help from outside which has to be ever growing?
I know of some cows and oxes being sold to devotees, vegetarians or pet shelters (I don`t know what the exact name for such a place is where kids can come and play with animals) so they will live long and happy life. Oxes can be used in fields but not only. They can pull the carts or can be used for back rides, press oil. Well trained animals can be even film stars. 
Working oxes live much shorter then milking cows. In India selling medicines made of cow dung and urine is a great business. So many opportunities!
Yamuna Dasi - September 28, 2012 12:55 pm
1. The fact that a cow can give milk for more than 10 years or even for 30 years is a complete exception, not a rule. Even if we take this little percentage of exceptions into consideration, still these remain just exceptions and don't change much the final review.
2. Of course male calves can be sold to some places where people would enjoy meeting the enimals, but there is just not such huge demand of male calves to be bought neither for contact with animlas purposes, nor for work. Thus remains valid the question what to do with just 50 % of the born calves which are male?
3. Of course some work or use (like cow dunk or ploughing) can be found for the oxes as well, but the real question remains - can this work (which nowadays is practically very economically uneffective) and cover even the cost for maintaining the oxes? The simple answer is not. Not every farmer is a greedy parson running only after profits. For example this eco farmer who I met is not is not, but the calculation which I gave is to show that economically such an idealistic farm for milk production cannot survive financially if it doesn't sell out the male calves and the old cows. And we know that they are sold to butchers, because there is no need of so many oxes and no need of old cows so there are not enough good-willing buyers who would buy oxes and old cows for other purpose but killing them for meat.
Even for the exotic purposes which you have mentioned that the bulls can be used, like ploughing or transport, if the calculation is made, you will see the facts - that it is much cheaper for a farmer to plough with the machines than with oxes, because if he decides to plough with oxes, he will need a lot of man power, which also has to be paid and maintained, he will need more time to do the job, and he will be able to plough much less territoty than if he would by just using machines. Thus the so called oxe-power for work will be complete loss for him, not a profit at all. And if there will be no profit, but rather loss, from where would he take the money for maintaining the oxes and the people who worked with them on the field? Cow dunk is a remaining product from farming, so medicines-producer can either take it for free from the cow-farms, or buy it at very low price. But if he takes it for free or at low price, how could a cow farm have enough money from this low price to maintain the cows and the oxes? The price of cow-dunk (either for medical purposes or for using on plants) cannot cover the expences for the maintenance of the animals.
It is nice what that farmer in France did, that in the price of every product from his farm he includes certain porcentage for the "pencion" of the animal, but please note that this is done only for the animals which he maintains, i.e. which bring him direct profit, i.e. cows and female chicken. No oxes and no male-chicken, because they don't give milk and eggs. Which means that this is not solving the problem because 50 % of the animlas born will have to be sold to the butcher. He puts on pencion only the other 50%. And even this is practically impossible, because if he would have to include the true "percentage for pencion" in the price, then he would have to sell every product of his farm for 3-4 times higher price because less than this would not be able to cover the pencion of the animal. So the final result will be:
1. only 50 % of the problem with killing the animlas is solved
2. prices of his products will be so high, that he would hardly find enough clients to buy his products, and thus he will not be able no only to grow, but even to maintain
We can speak of exotic and rare applications, but this remains theory if no farm in the world could have done it till now. And this would mean to be able to maintain itself, we don't even speak at all about being profitable, just to MAINTAIN itself - the animals and of course the pople who work there. A milk-producing farm which can be able to close the cirlcle of milk-production without killing cows or selling cows to the butcher.
This is why I asked those 5 non-theoretical, but very practical questions and they still stand unanswered. Does somebody know such a farm in which:
1. The farm doesn't sell out their male calves?
2. If so do they find enough work for the oxes which to be enough to cover at least the expences of maintaining the oxes in their active lifetime and when they are old?
3. Do they maintain 50/50 % cows and oxes because this is the natural proportion of birth?
4. Do they maintain all the old cows and oxes?
5. Do they manage financially by themselves or they need to survive only on financial help from outside which has to be ever growing?
And if we cannot find even ONE farm in the world who is able to close this karma-free (killing-free) milk-production cycle, wouldn't it be more fair from our side to admit the fact that it is NOT POSSIBLE to produce milk and dairy products without mass killing of cows?
Is it so difficult for us to give a sincere answer to this question? If this is indeed the truth let's admit it and not to try to cover it with exotic theories which just not work if one tries to put them into practice.
Truth is very important, otherwise we would live either in ignorance or in hypocracy.
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 28, 2012 4:30 pm
And if we cannot find even ONE farm in the world who is able to close this karma-free (killing-free) milk-production cycle, wouldn't it be more fair from our side to admit the fact that it is NOT POSSIBLE to produce milk and dairy products without mass killing of cows?
Is it so difficult for us to give a sincere answer to this question? If this is indeed the truth let's admit it and not to try to cover it with exotic theories which just not work if one tries to put them into practice.
Truth is very important, otherwise we would live either in ignorance or in hypocracy.
Yamuna, go vegan if you feel so, but why do you need to be so dramatical about it?
We have cows in our asrams in US and Costa Rica and none of them, male or female is killed. I guess ISKCON UK has a project of karma free milk, where female cows give milk and retired cows and bulls are adopted by life members (maybe someone from UK knows details?). Their karma free diary products are expensive and that allows to also use older cows who give less milk. Polish ISKCON farm has milking cows and maintains old cows and bulls. Radhadesh has herd of old cows and bulls. And I`m sure there are many such places around the world. It will never be main stream business for organic farmers who are non devotees. It also needs good management and long term vision.
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 28, 2012 4:40 pm
1. The fact that a cow can give milk for more than 10 years or even for 30 years is a complete exception, not a rule. Even if we take this little percentage of exceptions into consideration, still these remain just exceptions and don't change much the final review.
with regard to 30 years, I agree. It is exception because most cows don`t live that long. But 10 years is no exception and nothing strange. It is like saying that it is complete exception to find a woman of 40 who becomes mother. And as I mentioned- cows do not have to calf every year to give milk. I give my word of agriculture engeneer of village background that it is possible against your second hand story from comercial farmer who has never seen 10 year old cow because he sends them to slaughter house before that age.
Yamuna Dasi - September 29, 2012 12:03 am
You were asking me why am I so dramatic about it?
Don't you really see nothing dramatic or at least sad that milk production is mass killing of cows and the vegetarians and even the devotees are not aware of it? That milk production and meat production are practicaly one business.
I find it not just dramatic, but even hypocritic if we close our eyes for this fact.
WE are blaming the non-vegetarians that they close their eyes for the fact that behind their steaks there is a murder, but it is just the same about the milk, behind the glass of milk there is also a murder. And the very few exceptions which you said that MAYBE exist are just confirming the fact rather than denying it.
Regarding your remarks that such ISKOCN farms maybe exist and that they maybe are able to do it, a friend of mine who lived for 5 years in Vrindavan and I spoke with her today, she told me that she was visiting last time the ISKCON farm (I don't know the name) and she told me that it was full of old and ill cows and the devotees were not able to manage and find the balance of how to be able to keep it.
This seems to confirm what I said, that economically it cannot be managed. And if even the devotees cannot find a balanced answer and solution of how to produce milk without killing cows, obviously we cannot expect the other so called by you "commercial farmers" to do it.
This means that if we consume milk we do kill cows.
And the point is not if I will become a vegan or not, the point is why we are not aware of this fact and why we don't admit it?
We speak so openly and directly against meat eating and against animal killing, but we keep complete silence about the fact that milk production means mass cows killing.
The real question would be if I have to use your words, why are we so dramatical about meat eating when consuming milk and dairy products is practically the same involvement in killing? I am with the devotees for 25 years and I never heard anybody even to mention it. I had to meet a "commercial farmer" from an eco farm to tell me this simple truth and ask me the real question which obviously makes me so dramatic: how come that you vegetarians didn't ever think and realise this? Are you so blind or so stupid? Or you just prefer to blame the meat eaters and feel happy that you are pious and not invovled in killing when actually you are? You are just like ostrich birds, who think that if they hide their heads in the sand and keep silence, they will become invisible.
Yamuna Dasi - September 29, 2012 8:22 am
Do you know what is the opinion of the vaishnava Gurus on this topic? As I said I never heard anybody even to mention it for 25 years.
What makes me even more sad is that we are discussing problems like "shouldn't there be sex shops for devotees" or "shouldn't it be officially blessed the gay marriage", which finally are topics just about our sence gratification, but we don't even MENTION a problem like this, that by consuming milk we perform a mass killing of cows. Did we become so self-centered? Did we become so far from the real problems being deeply inloved just in our tiny self-centered issues completely not even mentioning that there are much bigger problems around us which concern other beings? How come that on our path back home back to Godhead we are deviating so much as losing interest and sensitivity for others and the ability to distinguish between smaller and bigger, egotistic and non-egotistic?
The question is not if I will become a vegan or not. The question is not to hide our heads in the sand thinking that the question is not a valid one. How does the vaishnavas in general see this problem and what we should do about it? It is obvious that the milk we consume is produced by mass killing of cows, and as the Shastras say 5 kinds of persons take the responsibility for killing: the one who kills, the transporter, the seller, the buyer and the consumer. They all take part of the karma for the action and participate in the killing.
If in ancient times maybe it was possible to produce milk without killing cows but nowadays it is not possible to do it because nobody needs ox-power for poughing and transport and nobody is able to maintain non-milk giving cows and oxes, then maybe if the times and circumstances had changed, we have also to reconsider our opinion about the milk consuming.
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 29, 2012 9:54 am
The question is not if I will become a vegan or not. The question is not to hide our heads in the sand thinking that the question is not a valid one. How does the vaishnavas in general see this problem and what we should do about it? It is obvious that the milk we consume is produced by mass killing of cows, and as the Shastras say 5 kinds of persons take the responsibility for killing: the one who kills, the transporter, the seller, the buyer and the consumer. They all take part of the karma for the action and participate in the killing.
If in ancient times maybe it was possible to produce milk without killing cows but nowadays it is not possible to do it because nobody needs ox-power for poughing and transport and nobody is able to maintain non-milk giving cows and oxes, then maybe if the times and circumstances had changed, we have also to reconsider our opinion about the milk consuming.
Yamuna, you are very wrong in your assumptions. Guru Maharaja`s projects are the answer to this problem that devotees were aware of for years. You just noticed it now and think you discovered sth new and try to show youself as the only messiah who wants to enlighten everyone. Yes, we are aware of the problem. We have been aware of it and discussed it long before you realized it. It cannot be addressed globally. But one can change something locally, so do it instead of trying to find guilt in others.
Yamuna Dasi - September 29, 2012 2:30 pm
Tripurari Maharaj wrote about this problem?
Can you please give me a link so that I can read his opinion. Sorry, I was really not aware that he raised this topic before.
I am not trying to be a Mesiah, I am angry to myself that for 25 years I didn't even think of making this simple calculation to realise the truth about milk production. And I have to admit that I am surprised and hurt that our Gurus didn't tell us. I prefer to face the truth than to live in ignorance.
For so many years I was finding the vegans to be just over dramatic by thinking that somebody tortures the cows in order to take their milk. Somehow the vegans are rather speaking about other aspects, that humans don't need milk and dairy produts and that these products are not healthy. This is something that I didn't find real proof about so their point remained for me over-emotional and unnecessarily dramatic. They would do much better if they rather point out to people that milk production means inevitable killing of many cows, rather than trying to prove that milk is against human health. This will make their point much more substantial in the eyes of many vegetarians.
What do you mean that it cannot be changed globally?
Why do we speak globally against meat eating but we don't dare to even mention globally the real problem about consuming milk and dairy products? We are trying to change the world globaly by preaching vegetariansm so why do we hide the other part of the truth? How do we put the border if both are killing? Don't we dare to tell people the truth and to advice them everybody to think about it and take his decision based on moral and personal conscience? But first to let them know the facts. Because how can one think and take a decision if he doesn't see the facts and nobody talks about those facts?
Vegans seem to be more sincere and brave than the devotees. And this is sad.
How can people who don't speak about God have more compassion for the "holy cow" than those who worship Gopal Krishna...
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 29, 2012 4:25 pm
Tripurari Maharaj wrote about this problem?
Can you please give me a link so that I can read his opinion. Sorry, I was really not aware that he raised this topic before.
Not sure if he wrote specific articles (you may check Audaria Diary website) But there were many discussions about it in asrams and during Swami calls and also on internet and I`m rather surprised to see someone who is in touch with our sangha and never heard of it. Many members of our sangha were involved in online discussions about it. I remember discussion on dandavats.com, maybe someone else remembers more. Just google it and you will see it is not new topic for the devotees in different sangas.
I am not trying to be a Mesiah, I am angry to myself that for 25 years I didn't even think of making this simple calculation to realise the truth about milk production. And I have to admit that I am surprised and hurt that our Gurus didn't tell us. I prefer to face the truth than to live in ignorance.
You did receive all what is neccessary to search for truth and make decisions for yourself. Gurus are not meant to give you detailed instructions on every aspect of life.
For so many years I was finding the vegans to be just over dramatic by thinking that somebody tortures the cows in order to take their milk. Somehow the vegans are rather speaking about other aspects, that humans don't need milk and dairy produts and that these products are not healthy. This is something that I didn't find real proof about so their point remained for me over-emotional and unnecessarily dramatic. They would do much better if they rather point out to people that milk production means inevitable killing of many cows, rather than trying to prove that milk is against human health. This will make their point much more substantial in the eyes of many vegetarians.
I agree
What do you mean that it cannot be changed globally?
Why do we speak globally against meat eating but we don't dare to even mention globally the real problem about consuming milk and dairy products? We are trying to change the world globaly by preaching vegetariansm so why do we hide the other part of the truth? How do we put the border if both are killing? Don't we dare to tell people the truth and to advice them everybody to think about it and take his decision based on moral and personal conscience? But first to let them know the facts. Because how can one think and take a decision if he doesn't see the facts and nobody talks about those facts?
Vegans seem to be more sincere and brave than the devotees. And this is sad.
How can people who don't speak about God have more compassion for the "holy cow" than those who worship Gopal Krishna...
One thing is certain- whether one is meateater, vegetarian, vegan, fruitarian- some violence is involved. This is sad reality of material life. Agriculture means killing. Eating means killing. You can`t say you don`t know about it. Everybody knows it. If you insist on proof from sastra- jivo jivasya jivanam.... This is the way world is. The only thing we can do about it is to be less involved in exploatation. Since you discovered area that people are not enough informed of, you can tell them about it. Do it, don`t expect that sadhu`s suddenly give up preaching about Krishna to engage only in exposing animal cruelty. It is not their goal. Srila Prabhupada was ready to allow his disciples to eat meat if they could not survive otherwise in former Sovet Union. Why? Because Holy Name has more power to change people`s hearts then tones of books and articles about mistreating the animals.
I don`t understand your stamement about vegan being better then devotees, there are plenty vegans among the devotees.
Yamuna Dasi - September 30, 2012 8:03 am
Thank you for the patience and good will answering my questions. Sometimes the good attitude and care of the answerer give some peace to the heart of the one who is asking, even if not able to give peace to the mind and the conscience.
Actually all these turbulences in my mind and conscience gave me the oportunity to think deeper about the real questions behind them and draw some conclusions.
Finally our goal it to have our own personal relation with Krishna, to feel it and to dive deeper in these waters of mutual love. All religions preach about the importance of the morals and ethics and somehow that THIS is the way to deserve and receive God's attention, by becoming moral persons. But what I can see more and more clear through the Scriptures, through Mahabharata and Ramayana is that following the path of moral and ethics has nothing to do with attracting Krishna's attention. Those who attracted his attention were doing horrible things from the point of view of morals and ethics, practically all of them. And still they had their personal relation with Krishna.
I started asking myself is really the follwoing of moral something that brings us closer to God ot it has nothing to do with it. Does it makes us more pure? Does it prepare our souls for having our relation with him? When finally the fact is that we cannot be neither completely moral, nor completely pure. We just make some little attempts in that direction and this is all what we can do. Maybe just our good intention counts in his eyes.
And then the real and final question comes, if following the path of moral and ethics is not the way to attract Krishna's attention and love, then WHAT is the real thing that can do it? We are like lovers, who want to attract the attention of their beloved somehow in order to have the relation. So WHAT can we do for it? Praying, chanting, studying shastra and meditating, searching...
If his mercy is really causeless none of these really matters.
Braja-sundari Dasi - September 30, 2012 10:58 am
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Finally our goal it to have our own personal relation with Krishna, to feel it and to dive deeper in these waters of mutual love. All religions preach about the importance of the morals and ethics and somehow that THIS is the way to deserve and receive God's attention, by becoming moral persons. But what I can see more and more clear through the Scriptures, through Mahabharata and Ramayana is that following the path of moral and ethics has nothing to do with attracting Krishna's attention. Those who attracted his attention were doing horrible things from the point of view of morals and ethics, practically all of them. And still they had their personal relation with Krishna.
I started asking myself is really the follwoing of moral something that brings us closer to God ot it has nothing to do with it. Does it makes us more pure? Does it prepare our souls for having our relation with him? When finally the fact is that we cannot be neither completely moral, nor completely pure. We just make some little attempts in that direction and this is all what we can do. Maybe just our good intention counts in his eyes.
And then the real and final question comes, if following the path of moral and ethics is not the way to attract Krishna's attention and love, then WHAT is the real thing that can do it? We are like lovers, who want to attract the attention of their beloved somehow in order to have the relation. So WHAT can we do for it? Praying, chanting, studying shastra and meditating, searching...
If his mercy is really causeless none of these really matters.
This is very interesting topic. Thank you Yamuna for reminding it. I think we discussed it somewhere in one of Classrooms topics. I cannot find it at the moment but as far as I remember the conclusion was that we cannot deserve mercy. bhakti comes to us on her own. But when we receive this preciuos invitation to the realm of bhakti we can show we care about it, especially by serving sadhus who are dear to Krishna. So although the mercy is not based on any effort from our side still our effort can attract it.
Yamuna Dasi - September 30, 2012 11:16 am
"although the mercy is not based on any effort from our side still our effort can attract it."
Again we reached the shore of achintya-bheda-abheda tattva. Seems that only those who don't get drawn in these waters can reach the other shore.
Since bhakti is the active love, love in action, of course we will be searching something, anything that we can do to attract his attention and have our relation with him. By reading and hearing what were the personal mystical experiences of other soul-lovers with him we start craving for this relation because we fell that there is so much taste in it, and we dream the same to happen to us one day. All the rest is just a fine tuning for the soul to be ready for this moment.
Since in this topic I was quite dramatic, decided to share something that can give some pleasure to the devotees maybe.
Let me see where to open such a topic, "The perfect action".