Tattva-viveka

What Books Should We Be Reading?

Prema-bhakti - March 7, 2013 8:14 pm

I am interested in a reading list of Gaudiya literature. What books should we really learn well and study to understand the Gaudiya Siddhanta?

Madan Gopal Das - March 8, 2013 2:43 am

I am interested in a reading list of Gaudiya literature. What books should we really learn well and study to understand the Gaudiya Siddhanta?

You've probably heard GM say many times that everything is in SB, CC, BRS and... oops, I forgot the last one! Gita?? Just heard another class recently where he said that even when he read other books, they reference back to these four.

Prema-bhakti - March 8, 2013 1:15 pm

You've probably heard GM say many times that everything is in SB, CC, BRS and... oops, I forgot the last one! Gita?? Just heard another class recently where he said that even when he read other books, they reference back to these four.

Yes, true. I guess I find it difficult to deeply penetrate SB or study it well because it is so daunting in size and there is much in there that doesn't really apply to suddha bhakti.

I find Madhurya-kadambini, Bhakti-sandarbhas as well as BRS much more approachable.

I heard that Srila Narayana Maharaja recommended Jaiva Dharma as a book that was an essential book wherein one can learn the entire siddanta.

I don't wantto sound like I want to cut corners here, I guess I am trying to hone in on essential reading.

Madan Gopal Das - March 8, 2013 1:51 pm

GM alao references Jiva Goswami (I think) as suggesting that in the 5 potent processes of bhakti (mathura-vasa, bhagavat-sravana), that bhagavat sravan means 10th canto.

I like your list. Add Brihad-Bhagavatamrta, the first book of our sampradaya and whew, that's a good mix! Know those books through and through and life is perfect. "Then go back to Benares and try to learn Srimad Bhagavatam!"

Could always add BVT's Saranagati and Narottama Thakur's Prarthana for simple sutras, booster shots of tattva and bhava combined.

Gopala Dasa - March 8, 2013 3:57 pm

Yes, true. I guess I find it difficult to deeply penetrate SB or study it well because it is so daunting in size and there is much in there that doesn't really apply to suddha bhakti.

I've only recently become more interested in the Bhagavatam as a result of reading BRS and CC and beginning to pay attention to the ways in which SB verses are introduced as supporting evidence.

I think another aspect of the question you pose is *how* we should be reading. I sometimes end up chasing a verse or even a single word (I did that recently in response to your nistha question , PB -- sorry still no insight from me) across a couple or more books, commentaries, GM's sangas, etc. This may not work for everyone, especially since we sometimes feel like there is need to "finish" a book by reading it cover-to-cover. That's how I'd handle a novel, perhaps, but with the Gaudiya literature it's more an experience of going in spirals across and through the canon (or as I prefer to think of it, pursuing lotus leaf-shaped tangents) rather than proceeding in some linear way through a single text. (Of course, there is value in dedicated study of one book at a time, too.)

Prema-bhakti - March 8, 2013 4:20 pm

I've only recently become more interested in the Bhagavatam as a result of reading BRS and CC and beginning to pay attention to the ways in which SB verses are introduced as supporting evidence.

I think another aspect of the question you pose is *how* we should be reading. I sometimes end up chasing a verse or even a single word (I did that recently in response to your nistha question , PB -- sorry still no insight from me) across a couple or more books, commentaries, GM's sangas, etc. This may not work for everyone, especially since we sometimes feel like there is need to "finish" a book by reading it cover-to-cover. That's how I'd handle a novel, perhaps, but with the Gaudiya literature it's more an experience of going in spirals across and through the canon (or as I prefer to think of it, pursuing lotus leaf-shaped tangents) rather than proceeding in some linear way through a single text. (Of course, there is value in dedicated study of one book at a time, too.)

Thanks Gopal. Although I see merit in what you say about "going in spirals" (and I do read and study like that), I also think there is great merit in reading GV literature 'cover-to-cover. Many of the books are written in a progression and context that is important to imbibe. One who reads that way, I believe is more apt to catch "the spirit" and as a result the siddhanta.

Swami B. A. Ashram - March 8, 2013 6:20 pm

I like both ways. I recommend for straight-through reading the method that Swami suggests sometimes: Read through the verses, letting the purports go at first, so you get a sense of the shape and direction of the chapter(s), then, when you're ready, go through the purports later. It can really help.

Shyamananda Das - March 8, 2013 11:53 pm

http://swamitripurari.com/2006/01/qa-how-to-study-the-scriptures/

Gurumaharaj gives a nice technique in this Q&A: Pick a text and read. When you come across a reference in a commentary, go to the referenced verse, read the ten preceding and the ten following verses. If another verse is referenced in one of those commentaries, do the same thing again, and so on.

Here's another thing I found on the subject: http://swamitripurari.com/2000/12/srimad-bhagavatam-studying-with-the-heart/

Acyuta Dasa - March 9, 2013 3:14 pm

Nice topic, Prema-bhakti.

Btw, is there a specific translation of BRS that devotees recommend?

Madan Gopal Das - March 9, 2013 3:30 pm

Btw, is there a specific translation of BRS that devotees recommend?

Bhanu Swami's translation with commentary of Jiva G and VCT.

Swami B. A. Ashram - March 9, 2013 6:18 pm

I'm with Madan. Bhanu Swami's is the best we have.

Acyuta Dasa - March 9, 2013 11:16 pm

Thanks. And thanks to Syamananda for the lecture and Q&A suggestions.

Prema-bhakti - March 10, 2013 1:26 am

Just came across this quote again by Srila Prabhupada. I like his statement on studying from every point of view.

>"I want you leaders especially to become absorbed in the philosophy of

>Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and become yourselves completely

>convinced and free from all doubt. On this platform you shall be able to carry on the

>work satisfactorily, but if there is a lack of knowledge or if there is

>forgetfulness, everything will be spoiled in time. So especially you must

>encourage the students to read our books throughout the day as much as

>possible, and give them all good advice how to understand the books, and

>inspire them to study the things from every point of view. Better to boil

>the milk very vigorously and make it thick and sweet - that is the best

>progress. So let us concentrate on training our devotees very thoroughly in

>the knowledge of Krishna consciousness from our books, from tapes, and by

>discussing always, and in so many ways instruct them in the right

>propositions."

>(letter to Hamsaduta, 22nd June, 1972.)

Citta Hari Dasa - March 13, 2013 11:37 am

This list I think would have one pretty well covered:

Gita

Bhagavatam

Caitanya-caritamrta

Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu or the BRS-bindu by VCT

Jaiva-dharma

Madhurya-kadambini

GM's Siksastakam

Brhad-Bhagavatamrta

Harinama-cintamani

Upadesamrta

Guru Maharaja of course stresses the "big four" since they are the source books all the Goswami granthas are derived from. But I agree Prema, the Bhagavatam in particular can be daunting due to its size and the puranic format does include some not-so-relevant material. For that reason I mostly read the 10th Canto with VCT's commentary.

Prema-bhakti - March 13, 2013 1:56 pm

This list I think would have one pretty well covered:

Gita

Bhagavatam

Caitanya-caritamrta

Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu or the BRS-bindu by VCT

Jaiva-dharma

Madhurya-kadambini

GM's Siksastakam

Brhad-Bhagavatamrta

Harinama-cintamani

Upadesamrta

Guru Maharaja of course stresses the "big four" since they are the source books all the Goswami granthas are derived from. But I agree Prema, the Bhagavatam in particular can be daunting due to its size and the puranic format does include some not-so-relevant material. For that reason I mostly read the 10th Canto with VCT's commentary.

Yes. And I would add SB First Canto with VCT commentaries and as you say Tenth Canto.

Citta Hari Dasa - March 13, 2013 6:12 pm

Yes. And I would add SB First Canto with VCT commentaries and as you say Tenth Canto.

First Canto, no doubt. I'll have to get me a copy!

Swami - March 13, 2013 11:33 pm

First Canto, no doubt. I'll have to get me a copy!

There are some contradictions in Jaiva Dharma regarding the so called inherent/dormant svarupa, and then the propaganda concerning a choice from tatastha. The two ideas go together. Talking about one leads to the other, but I am not trying to start something here :rolleyes: .

Bhrigu - March 14, 2013 1:00 pm

I am a bit surprised by the criticism of the Bhagavatam here. Which sections are not so relevant for pure devotion? Take the chronology of kings in the 12th canto for example. How is that concluded? On a note of vairagya: "My dear King Parīkṣit, all these kings I have described, as well as all other human beings, come to this earth and stake their claims, but ultimately they all must give up this world and meet their destruction." etc. How could we ever understand the Sandarbhas, for example, without a firm grounding in this text?

But yes, the size is a bit daunting. I like Swami Tapasyananda's four volume ed, which only has the devanagari (separate) and a straight translation (though somewhat advaitic -- may not be the best for a beginner).

Madan Gopal Das - March 14, 2013 2:03 pm

I also cringe a little when parts of the Bhagavatam are spoken of as not relevant to suddha-bhakti, but I'm guessing that we all understood for the most part what Prema was referring to. When you take the vast amount of information included in SB, mixed with attendance of years of classes on one verse a day, call and response repetition of the verse, saying word for word translation, purports by Prabhupada taking you off on tangents of his modern day preaching against science/government or just the modern way of life - with that type of reading of SB from a microscopic view, the big picture of bhakti can sometimes get lost. You see the results, because at times devotees get distracted with proving as fact things the Bhagavatam only casually mentions. I think Prema's list and SB reading aims at an essentialist conclusion. I wouldn't suggest devotees forego a full reading of SB (or several), as GM has many times said he's read it dozens of times, but I think what is relevant in SB may change for us as we travel the bhakti marga. It may not be criticism of Bhagavatam, but rather practitioners mining SB for what is precious to them at any given point on their path. SB is vast, and offers a variety of truths, and will change what we find most important with our progress, to the point that as Mahaprabhu's vision was, every syllable is speaking about Krsna.

Overall, I agree, there is tons and tons of great tattva woven throughout, and wonderful verses have been picked out and selected by our acaryas and consistently preached on from first to twelfth cantos. But I do think 1st canto is a great foundation of bhakti tattva, and 10th canto is the sweetest mix of tattva and lila.

How could we ever understand the Sandarbhas, for example, without a firm grounding in this text?

Couldn't it also be said the other way around? How could we understand SB without the insights into it that we get from the Sandarbhas? As Gaudiya Vaisnavas we are really reading SB from the understanding the Goswami's have given us...

Bhrigu - March 15, 2013 9:37 am

You are right, Madan-da, on both counts. This atomistic kind of SB reading that we do is useful, of course (I love thinking of favourite verses, for example), but it does distract from experiencing the whole of the text. I recently finished another read-through of the text, and was again blown away by the power and poetry of the book. Reading the 12th canto, for example, is such a powerful experience after going through the whole text, seeing how all the threads are finally tied up. And yes -- when I wrote that Swami Tapasyananda's version is "somewhat advaitic", that really mostly reflects the text itself. There is so much abheda in especially the 11th and 12th cantos that unless you have a grounding in Sri Jiva's philosophy, you might easily flip over too much to that side of the bheda-abheda equation.

Does anyone have any experience of Sripad B.P. Yati Maharaja's Bhagavatam translation? I have heard that Edwin Bryant (Advaita Dasa) plans to do the whole thing (he did the 10th canto already, of course), but I have no idea when that will appear.

Prema-bhakti - March 15, 2013 5:04 pm

I am a bit surprised by the criticism of the Bhagavatam here. Which sections are not so relevant for pure devotion? Take the chronology of kings in the 12th canto for example. How is that concluded? On a note of vairagya: "My dear King Parīkṣit, all these kings I have described, as well as all other human beings, come to this earth and stake their claims, but ultimately they all must give up this world and meet their destruction." etc. How could we ever understand the Sandarbhas, for example, without a firm grounding in this text?

But yes, the size is a bit daunting. I like Swami Tapasyananda's four volume ed, which only has the devanagari (separate) and a straight translation (though somewhat advaitic -- may not be the best for a beginner).

My comment wasn't meant as a minimization of the Bhagavatam. Maybe it would have been better to say some sections are more relevant than others. I am not learned or realized so although I am sure that in the eyes of a tattva-vit or a rasika-vaisnava they would all be relevant, I find a read through daunting. Many devotees seem to get confused emphasizing certain sections and therefore misrepresenting the siddhanata. That's all I really meant.

Prema-bhakti - March 15, 2013 5:04 pm

I am a bit surprised by the criticism of the Bhagavatam here. Which sections are not so relevant for pure devotion? Take the chronology of kings in the 12th canto for example. How is that concluded? On a note of vairagya: "My dear King Parīkṣit, all these kings I have described, as well as all other human beings, come to this earth and stake their claims, but ultimately they all must give up this world and meet their destruction." etc. How could we ever understand the Sandarbhas, for example, without a firm grounding in this text?

But yes, the size is a bit daunting. I like Swami Tapasyananda's four volume ed, which only has the devanagari (separate) and a straight translation (though somewhat advaitic -- may not be the best for a beginner).

Prema-bhakti - March 15, 2013 5:06 pm

There are some contradictions in Jaiva Dharma regarding the so called inherent/dormant svarupa, and then the propaganda concerning a choice from tatastha. The two ideas go together. Talking about one leads to the other, but I am not trying to start something here .

I am not sure why this comment about Jaiva Dharma is here in CH's response to the First Canto of SB and VCT's commentary.