Tattva-viveka
Jiva Goswami and description of svakiya lila - metaphorical?
Kalpataru Dasa - August 25, 2013 8:26 pm
I asked this question on facebook, but couldn't get the answer. It's about Jiva Goswami presenting svakiya concept of Krishna's pastimes with gopi. I like Swami's explanation of it - that Jiva Goswami was presenting tattva not rasa, and tattva is that Krishna is the husband of gopis (he is even the husband of gopis' husbands). This idea was just easier to accept by contemporary society and vaisnava community. Still deep inside Jiva was of course the follower of parakiya rasa, like Rupa Goswami.
But then the question arises - how to read those pastimes, like for example those in Gopal Campu, where Krishna eventually gets married to the gopis? Should we read them only as a metaphorical presentation of tattva and not as the actual depiction presented by the first hand witness?
Prema-bhakti - September 8, 2013 5:33 pm
I don't have a reply but I'd like to add to the question about Gopal Campu. I have been reading it every night and it is such a wonderful and powerful book. It reads like a literary dance between tattva and rasa. Not sure if I am correct on that though.
I have a question about a quote from it: "Anyone who thinks some of Krsna's pastimes are happy and others are sad is bewildered. How can anyone say that about Krsna's pastimes, santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhurya rasa? Can anyone separate milk and water when they are stirred together?"
This is curious quote to me because the SB describes the pure devotees (relishers) like swans that can extract milk from water. They can taste the different mellows and describe them as differentiated in various ways. It seems here that JG is emphasizing the oneness of all the rasas in terms of them being equally relished and transcendental and not to be seen in mundane terms of happy and sad.
Any comments on this?
Swami - October 19, 2013 2:52 pm
Prema,
I think he is merely saying that one should not have a mundane idea of these relationships, which are all transcendental to the happy's and sad's of this world.
Kalpataru,
There is a married lila of Radha and Krsna in Goloka, but it is not experienced in Gokula, which is the center of Goloka and is our destination. And Sri Jiva's descriptions of the lila in Gopala Campu are centered in Gokula. In terms of tattva they play out in a narrative that which he emphasizes everywhere (his Brahma-samhita tika, Ujjvala-nilamani tika, Krsna-sandabha, etc.): Radha belongs (svakiya) only to Krsna. Thus parakiya (belonging to another) is a spiritual illusion that is at the same time the essence of dharma in that is is most pleasing to Sri Krsna, samsiddhir hari tosanam. Dharma is determined by the extent to which an action pleases Bhagavan.
So, how to understand the narratives in Gopala Campu, where Radha and Krsna are married? Are they real? How can there be a svakiya lila in Gokula? This seems to be your question. But for the most part Sri Jiva does not really play any such lilas out in the text. He merely describes Radha and Krsna as married, and this as part of the setting from which the prakata lila is discussed. In the book members of the lila assemble to hear the bards narrate the prakata lila, and in this setting it is described that Radha and Krsna are married, without going into any detail or narrating any svakiya lilas. Really the entire emphasis in the book is the prakata or Earthly lila and its parakiya. That is the focus, in which the siddhanta that in "reality" Radha belongs only to Krsna is emphasized by way of describing the divine couple as hearing this narrative while being married. Implicit in the text is the idea that the prakata lila is more important and that it is clearly centered on parkiya. Parakiya of course involves wanting to be married, although it is an impossibility int he prakata lila.
I admit that this is a bit confusing as a strategy on the part of Sri Jiva, but this is how the tradition has come to think about it. I will post more on this later.
Swami - October 19, 2013 3:34 pm
Here is that statement of Sri Visvanatha on what Sri Jiva hs done in his tika on Ujjvala nilamani.
"I offer repeated respects to the lotus feet of Çré Jéva Gosvämé, whose ideas are sweet with
mercy, and have the depth of a million oceans. One verse in his commentary, destroying a
multitude of doubts, is most excellent and is very clear. He has said, “I have written
according to my will, but some parts are according to the desires of others. Those views
which are consistent are my views and the rest is the opinion of others.”
"Those which are consistent" are those consistent with the view of Rupa Goswami. VCT follows this statement with lengthy explanation of why parakiya must be present in the aprakata lila. This is his commentary on the first verse of UN.
Guru-nistha Das - October 28, 2013 8:03 pm
Regarding Prema's question about happiness and sadness mixed up like water and milk, it does seem to be that there is the most intense grief in the lila, like nothing that compares to the grief of this world – the grief of separation. And since the lila must consist of both union and separation, the happiness and sadness can't be saparated. Am I stretching it?
Guru-nistha Das - October 28, 2013 8:09 pm
I reread the quote from GC and realized I was definitely taking the point out of context and ended up with a pseudo-rasik concoction 