Tattva-viveka
Fallen Guru
Arthur12652 - August 29, 2004 8:35 pm
I am pretty new to this forum but I feel already that I am among friends, so I will broach a subject that I am concerned about. I was initiated by a "prominent" disciple of Srila Prabhupada who is still alive, who still considers himself a devotee and guru but who has been expelled from ISKCON and who, I suspect, is more concerned that he was caught than that he did anything wrong. You must understand that I have completely fallen away from Vaishnava spiritual practice and therefore I know I am in no position to criticize anyone, much less someone who was so intimately associated with Srila Prabhupada no matter what he has done since that time. For this and so many other offenses, I am very sorry.
As I begin to renew my spiritual practice, I feel the need to address the issue of Guru and decide what course is appropriate for me. Although at one time I was among a large community of devotee and have read quite a bit about the ISKCON-guru controversy, I have not heard what I consider the guiding principle(s) that would help me know what to do in my specific case. If I were in California I would approach H.H. Tripurari Swami Maharaj for advice, because what I have read him say about guru and the books he has witten and that he recommends (i.e. Sri Guru and His Grace and Follow the Angels) seem to be very wise and compassionate. I live in the Southeast so that is not possible. Neither can I visit my old guru, who lives in New York now and even if I did I doubt that I would be willing to follow his advice.
Some more possibly relevant information: I suspect that when I was initiated my guru was already engaging in the kind of activities that eventually led ISKCON to expell him, he just hadn't been caught. So, was I initiated by a bonafide guru? Also, my initiation was at a time when Srila Prabhupada had recently disappeared and the custom was to seek initiation from the closest of the 11. I did not have a very personal relationship with my guru having been brought to him by another devotee who I considered my true spiritual friend. I have spoken to him fairly recently (he now initiates within ISKCON) and he did not recommend re-initiation, but the bottom line is that I am just uncomfortable with this other person as my guru. I realize that my situation is a result of my karma and that Guru is One, but as fallen as I am I just feel that I need the personal connection with a spiritual master I can admire and grow spiritually by his association.
I guess my questions are, do any of you have similar experiences or know of others who do, and what have they done and has it been a good decision? Again I beg your forgiveness for my many offenses against any and all Vaishnavas and for bringing such a personal and elementary question into such an august forum. Thanking you in advance,
Your servant,
Arthur (a.k.a. Akrura dasa)
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - August 29, 2004 9:59 pm
I’m not in a position to give any opinion on the subject, but I can give you a quote from Srila Jiva Gosvami’s Sri Bhakti-sandarbha (Anuccheda 238):
3. The qualities of a bona fide spiritual master are described in Srimad Bhagavatam (11.3.21). If one's spiritual master does not have these qualities, and is envious of advanced devotees, and thus refuses to allow his disciples to honour and worship other devotees, the disciple should leaves such a pretender spiritual master is not at fault. He has not disobeyed the teachings of the scriptures. The truth is that such a pretender spiritual master and his disciple both fall into calamity. This is described in the following words of Sri Narada-pancaratra:4. "A spiritual master who speaks wrongly, without logic, and a disciple who hears wrongly, without logic, both go to a terrible hell for a long time that seems not to end."
5. Such a spiritual master should be worshipped from afar. If the spiritual master hates Vaisnavas, he should be rejected. This is described in the Smrti-sastra: "A spiritual master who is materialistic, unaware of what should and should not be done, and deviated from the true spiritual path, should be rejected."
Since many ISKCON gurus have committed grievous offences at the lotus feet of Srila Sridhara Maharaja their disciples can act in accordance with scriptural injunctions by rejecting them. Therefore "re-initiation" becomes "real initiation".
Arthur12652 - September 1, 2004 8:49 pm
Thank you, Yuri, for your thoughtful response to my question. It was very helpful.
To those of you who have not written, is this subject inappropriate or uncomfortable to discuss? If so, please accept my apologies. I am just trying to make a very important decision about my spiritual life and I thought that this group would be able to give me several perspectives to consider. I realize that it is a very personal subject and that no one wants to say anything that might be misunderstood. In any event, thanks for listening and for your support, even if it is given silently.
Vrindaranya Dasi - September 1, 2004 9:41 pm
Dandavats,
It is wonderful to have you on Tattva-viveka. 
Since this is such an important decision, I would definitely suggest that you write Guru Maharaja personally about it. You can do this through the Tattva-viveka forum (check on "Members," then navigate to "Swami," and select "Email.")
Yuri gave solid, scriptural advice and since this is such an important and sensitive issue, I personally felt a little cautious about saying anything else--it's not the kind of thing you want to give wrong advice about.
Guru Maharaja gave analogy once that you might find encouraging: When a representative of a company promises someone some goods, takes their money, and then doesn't deliver the goods, the company takes extra special care of that customer, giving not only the goods but special treatment, the company's very best representative, etc. Similarly, if a guru fails to live up to his or her part of the spiritual relationship, then Krsna gives extra mercy to the disciple, trying to make up for the deficiency of the representative.
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Babhru Das - September 1, 2004 10:05 pm
I haven't written anything yet because it is such a senisitive issue, and I was reluctant to say anything without carefully considering the situation. I think each situation is unique and therefore institutional policies won't help, especially since they change frequently. I think you did well to ask this other devotee, but, as much as I respect him (if my guess is right ), he may feel somehwhat constrained by those same shifting policies. AS Vrindaranya says, Yuri's advice is solidly based on scriptural instruction, but I believe each case deserves--and requires--individual consideration. I think Vrindaranya is right to advise that you ask Tripurari Maharaja directly. We may be able to kick gerneralizations around on the forum, but it seems you need help deciding how to proceed now.
Audarya-lila Dasa - September 1, 2004 10:26 pm
I agree with the overall instruction given so far on this issue. I was in a similar situation as you Arthur. I joined Iskcon in 1978 just after Srila Prabhupada finished his manifest lila. I joined in Berkeley California. At the time I joined the mission was still in some turmoil. Satsvarupa Maharaja was the GBC of Berkeley when I joined. Not to long after that, the 11 were anounced and the world was divided up and we ended up with Hansadutta in Berkeley. I took initiation from him and used to go by the name Aniruddha dasa. I left Iskcon for good in 1983 and went to school so that I could develop myself and engage in a meaningful career. Up to that point all I was qualified to do was sell and, if anyone knows me or my nature very well, that was not an option. I did it as service to Krsna and Guru, but that's as far as I was willing to take that line of engagement.
At any rate I always identified myself as a devotee - but I distanced myself from devotees - rather an odd combination! As I matured as an individual and as I looked at my prospects in life I began to realize that I needed help. At one point I had resigned myself to living a life of belief in Krsna and meager practice without any guidance. Needless to say, that was a low point for me.
Regarding my diksha in Iskcon - it was similar in many respects to your own. I accepted the person that was presented to me. I was young and naive and I didn't think too much about the possiblility that I was making a mistake. My reading of the the scriptures and the encouragement of those around me lead me to believe that I was doing the right thing. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and in retrospect it would have been far better for me to have taken a much slower road. But I did what hundreds of others did and it seemed right to all of us at the time.
Since initiation is a two sided afair and there are many nuances to the whole affair I have to honestly say that my first initiation was very much a heart opening experience. The person who I accepted as my spiritual master at the time has proven himself to be unqualified to help me in the way I need help, but I still appreciate whatever help he gave me and I pray that Krsna will help him.
I don't want to get too much more into my personal journey in this post, but I will say that Lord Nityananda led me to my Guru Maharaja, Swami B.V. Tripurari, and that it was a very natural thing for me to want to be initiated by him and follow him. As Yuri pointed out, there is scriptural precedent for this, but really for me, I just followed my heart.
Your servant,
Audarya-lila dasa