Tattva-viveka
What is intuition?
Vrindaranya Dasi - September 4, 2004 12:48 am
During prasadam, Citta Hari and I were pondering the question, "What is intuition?" We realized how deep, how many facets this question has. Therefore, I wanted to make a new thread to discuss just this topic. Other questions we thought of are:
Are there two kinds of intuition-material and spiritual?
Is there a stage at which one can genuinely experience intuition?
I open the floor to our exalted feeling philosophers...
Audarya-lila Dasa - September 7, 2004 6:24 pm
This is a great question and one well worth some attention. I'm not sure that I would classify intuition as a 'feeling' approach. I believe it is a natural process of human creativity and without it we wouldn't progress. Some people classify it as inspiration and I think that is a fairly good definition.
My experience is that in contemplating a question often times an answer comes to mind that just 'fits' and it isn't arrived at through a rational process. Without contemplating the question, however, the inspiration to solve it would not arise. The inspiration also comes to one who is well informed in the basic knowledge surrounding the particular question being asked. For instance, the inspiration to arrive at the idea of relativity that Einstein had would not have come to someone who was not trained in mathematics and physics. This is a generality and obviously not true in every sense, but I think it applies to most cases.
I will relate one experience of intuition I had in answering a question someone posed about whether or not the spiritual master personally comes back to bring his/her sisyas home if they don't come home in this life time.
When I was contemplating this question an impression came over me that it didn't make any sense that the Guru would necessarily personally come back for his/her sisyas because that would effectively mean that he/she would always remain in the material world and never return to the nitya-lila. I just 'knew' that this must be correct, but I didn't have any sastric pramana at the time to back it up. I searched for some backing and found it in the small booklet 'Golden Staircase' by Sridhara Maharaja. In that book he is essentially asked this same question and his answer is as I mentioned above. The pramana he gives is from the Srimad Bhagavatam where Krsna says that the acharya is none other than himself. Here is the excerpt that confirmed my initial intuition on the question:
Devotee: I don't know if this is correct, but I have heard it
said that if the disciple is not spiritually successful, then the Guru
may not return back to Godhead but may remain in this
brahmanda (universe). He may not return to Krsna until the
disciple can also go.
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: If that is the case, then no Guru
can ever return to Krsna at any time, because the continuation of
the disciples will go on, so he will have no final result at any time
in his life. But we cannot think that it is so. Sometimes he may be
deputed himself, or others also may be deputed in that case. But
the inner instruction and inner feeling and paraphernalia will be
such that in any case the disciples will have no trouble. The
officer may change, but the function will go on smoothly. So the
Guru may return - the nama-guru, mantra-guru, sannyasa-guru
- they are all Gurus, but we must recognize something similar in
them, and hence we are given the statement about the ontological
aspect of Guru: saksadd haritvena samasta- "I Myself appear as
the Guru, who is simultaneously and inconceivably one with and
different from Myself."
Krsna says, acaryam mam vijaniyat: "You should look
there for Me. I am there. I am your Guru. With My different
types of sakti, by the jivas' recruitment or by any other way, it is
My function to take you up to a different place. In every case I
am there. I am there in My Madhura-rasa sakti, or Sakhya-rasa
sakti, My Vatsalya-rasa sakti, Dasya-rasa sakti, and in a general
way also." Sometimes one may be recruited by the Ramanuja
Sampradaya and then be converted to join the Krsna
Sampradaya, the Gaudiya Sampradaya. That is also possible.
We are to remember the eternal link.
Devotee: So if someone says that the Guru himself will
personally come back - that is a mundane conception, a wrong
conception?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes. The main thread is there, but it
will not always appear in the same form. Although to the
beginners one may say that "he will come back," ultimately we
find that a disciple may even be transferred into another section,
and then another section, so that he may gradually reach his
destination. According to the unfolding of his inner necessity, the
departmental change may occur. And he will always perceive his
own Guru in newer and newer ways. At first sight he perceived
his Guru to be of one type; then again with progress he will see
the same Guru in another way, and thereafter another new
characteristic will be found in his Gurudeva. The disciple will
feel, "I could not detect so much in my Guru in the beginning. I
saw him in one particular way, but now I find that he is
something more, and then he is still more." In this way there is
divine unfoldment.
In this world there is unfoldment, and in the higher domain
also there is unfoldment. So avesa, the Guru is something like
saktyavesa. There is the "chance contingency" saktyavesa who
is deputed according to a particular time, place, or circumstance,
and there is also the permanent saktyavesa; but in all cases,
according to the necessity of the situation and by the divine
dispensation of the Lord, the disciple will be connected, and he
won't feel any distrust, it is the presence within. He will quench
the thirst for the full progress of his heart, there will be divine
unfoldment within his heart, and again he will begin a new thirst.
And that new thirst will be quenched by whom? His Guru. It
will be quenched by his Guru and he won't have any feeling of
unscrupulousness or anything else. As his internal thirst is being
satisfied, he will feel, "There is my Gurudeva."
Wherever there is unfoldment - gradual unfoldment and full
attention given to that - then we can understand that from the
upper side there is Guru. Gurudeva is my guide; and as I
progress, guidance of different types will be necessary for me.
Always new guidance, and my progress will take me into
different places, and there a new type of guidance, a new life, will
again come. In this way dynamic life is going on, and the main
thread is there: raso vai sah - the pure rasa, pure ecstasy. And
my inner heart will approve: "Yes, I want this. This is my fate;
this is my fortune." Otherwise, if any madhyama-adhikari is
appointed as Guru and has so many disciples, and if he is to
come back again and again, then he could never enter into
nitya-lila. But that cannot be so. In any case, whoever is
connected with a genuine Guru will be satisfied, because the
Lord is present there.
So acaryam mam vijaniyat is not in name only; it has a
very specific purpose:
acaryam mam vijaniyan, navamanyeta karhicit
na martya buddhyasuyeta, sarva deva-mayo guruh
(Bha: 11.17.27)
Krsna says, "Don't try to limit the Acarya! You may have
come up to a high position, but will you then think that you have
surpassed that Acarya through whom you received your initial
instruction in spiritual life? No, navamanyeta don't think that
there is less in him, don't consider him to be of lower position.
Navamanyeta - I Myself was there! I was there in your primary
teacher, in your 'college-level' teacher, and I am there in your
'post-graduate professor' also! So navamanyeta, don't look at
only the outside. I Myself am your guide in different forms. It is
I."
Sarva deva-mayo guruh: the Acarya has got more
spacious characteristics than that of the ordinary, general
Vaisnava. Krsna says, "For you, I am there. And mayanukulena
nabhasvateritam - I am backing so many Acaryas. There are so
many Acaryas, and I am working through them. The Acaryas are
like helmsmen in so many different boats, and I am the favorable
wind helping those boats to make progress. So don't limit the
Acarya - try to see him on the same level as Me."
I searched for some confirmation of my intuition from higher authority because I know my own position and without higher backing I know I am lost. Until one is very advanced and able to hear Krsna speaking to him/her personally then we must always seek confirmation of our insights from higher authorities. Guru Maharaja told me that an advanced devotee can get inspiration and spiritual insight by reading books but that others, who are less advanced, will need to read the books under the care and supervision of such an advanced vaishnava.
I'll end with this - since this is a living tradition and each of us are meant to 'have a life' as Guru Maharaja says - it should be fairly obvious that we are meant to grow and develop inspiration and insight. As we focus our hearing and chanting and we contemplate deeply what it is we are involved in there should be some genuine inspiration and intuition that comes to us - that's what makes us alive as true sadhakas. Krsna himself has said that he will maintain what we have and provide what we lack - what does that mean? Obviously there are many answers - but one which comes to mind quickly in the context of this thread is that Krsna will inspire us from within and give us insight.
Your servant,
Audarya-lila dasa
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - September 20, 2004 3:49 am
Because intuition is defined as the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference, I think that intuition is one of the ways of getting instructions from your caitya-guru, the personal inner guide.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.47
krsna yadi krpa kare kona bhagyavane
guru-antaryami-rupe sikhaya apane
Krsna is situated in everyone's heart as caitya-guru, the spiritual master within. When He is kind to some fortunate conditioned soul, He personally gives one lessons to progress in devotional service, instructing the person as the Supersoul within and the spiritual master without.
Gopisvara Dasa - October 1, 2004 10:15 pm
Very nice question Vrndaranya,
I think Audarya Lila prabhu has the right idea.Trust in what conclusion seems right and then verify it with scripture.When it is confirmed in that way our faith is strengthened and our preaching has more conviction.
We have gathered through our mind and senses millions of experiential inputs throughout our lives. Sorting through all of that to arrive at definative conclusions is tantamount to the IRS knowing exactly what is going on in everyone's tax return.One would simply burnout under the overwelming strain of complexity.
All of the information is stored in our memory banks and can be accessed through the higher faculty of intuition.It is like the difference of doing a computer search as opposed to sorting through unlimited numbers of websites.
But to access this, one must quiet the mind and enter into a meditative space.I personally had meditated for several years before I could conclude that Krishna was god.As I mentioned in my profile I had been searching and accumulating philosophical inputs(some correct and some erroneous)for years before I realized Krishna was the summum bonum.I attribute the ability to expedite the awakening to meditation.
Of course philosophically we can say that connection with a Vaishnava or Vedic literature can instill faith and awaken sukrti. That is also going on in a parallel way.But it is our quiet mind that allows us to recognize what is taking place.I think both are required.
We all have experience of devotees who have an intellectual command of the philosophy but have not yet married that knowledge to what their intuition is(or isn't) telling them. They sound very dogmatic or artificially inspired.
It is like what Guru Maharaja says about tapa.It means knowledge as well as austerity.It is through the suspension of sensual and mental activity that we can arrive at knowledge.
As a meditator in the 70's I always felt very happily intuitive.Then upon taking up this glorious path replete with knowledge I began to buckle under the weight of all that heavy knowledge without the benefit of meditation which I had forsaken due to it not(at least I thought) being part of our program.It was like continuing to eat but renouncing the ability to digest and assimilate.
Of couse japa is a form of meditation but only if it is very attentive. Japa while driving and doing things that require our attention may be remembering to some extent but it is certainly not meditation. I actually feel more meditative in kirtan.And sometimes I still find benefit in closing my eyes and going within and getting in touch with the breath.
As for Vrndaranya's other question,"Is there material as well as spiritual intuition?" I would say yes.An example would be Edison discovering the light bulb.Intuition is neutral.Like the example of the computer search.You can search spiritual topics or mundane topics.
Another type of spiritual intuition would be insight from the Paramatma.He may enlighten as he sees fit and also helping those with less intellectual prowess to see as well.(carry what they lack)Some may argue that the Paramatma is also guiding the likes of Edison.Since we are all spirits and from the highest vantage point everything is spiritual this may be the case.In fact,as I understand it the supersoul guides us regardless of our proclivity,sanctioning things to different degrees.
Bhakta Ivar - October 14, 2004 2:23 pm
I think intuition can be described as making wise decisions without a rational basis. Intuition means one acts on the basis of extremely subtle or vague impulses, such as inauspicious signs (not necessarily from some Vedic list) or physical sensations ("It didn't feel right").
Intuition develops when one regularly listens to these subtle warnings or messages, acts upon them, and gets some experiences that such irrational acts often have a very positive outcome.
It's hard to tell where intuition ends and where it becomes clearvoyance. I would say that both intuition and clearvoyance are not directly linked to devotion to God, either way. Thus we have very rational devotees, and highly intuitive atheïsts.
As I see it, ISKCON developed itself through perseverance and determination to spread a message. These were very strong traits of both Srila BV Swami Prabhupada and his spiritual master.
It seems intuition has never been a desirable trait in ISKCON, judging from the child abuse, initiation of sexually inclined men into the sannyasa order etc.
I have no idea what is the Sanskrit word for intuition. We are encouraged not to listen to our mind, but how to distinguish between mind and intuition?
It is often said that women are more in touch with their intuition, but the patriarchal dynamics of Indian culture looks down on them, as being less intelligent (as mentioned in several BBT publications).
These are just some of my thoughts.
In a horoscope intuition is indicated by a positive connection between a personal planet, such as the Sun, (a full) Moon, ascendant or Mercury, and Neptune. Neptune is of course no Vedic planet, but neither is intuition a Vedic concept. I have seen by practical experience that Neptune, a strong Moon and the sign Pisces are important factors, either in a natal chart or a transit chart.
When I joined ISKCON in 1993 there was a strong positive connection between transitory Neptune and my ascendant (this I learnt only last year). So it was a decision based on intuition, not on escapism, no matter what outsiders may have thought.
More on this subject on My Webpage
Ivar
Gopakumardas - October 14, 2004 6:51 pm
Some of my thoughts on the matter for what they're worth.
I think what we call 'intuition' is potentially several things. For some people it is merely unexplainable unconscious feelings coming to the surface and nothing more then a defense mechanism of our maladapted psychology. In other words it's our 'mind' saying "think like this.. or behave like this" to avoid feeling or experiencing something painful.
For other people I think 'intuition' is wishful thinking.. or wantful thinking. eg "I think Prabhupada would support me on this one (because it's really what I want)". This can ussualy be seen through by those not attached to the desired result.
For some people I think 'intuition' is an authentic 'gut feeling' based on instinctive warnings and signals the body has built in to predict harm emotionally and physically. eg. Don't get into that elevator with that man... you feel funny about him.
For other people I think 'intuition' is just the intellect making some moral/ethical claim on the individual giving some energy towards "right behavior" rather then allowing someone to behave on a 'feeling state'. This can be seen as "a deep hunch of what's best."
For some it may be a real clairavoyance.. or a 'tapping into' information that is available on some subtle psychic level (subtle body matter). It is like percieving who has a good vibe or bad vibe, what kind of day its going to be, or that something bad has just happened.
In a very rare and spiritually well-developed personality we may find that someone (yogi) has made contact or is able to recieve impressions from 'paramatma' or the indwelling Lord. This soul may get real impression about what is best to do in a matter or how to think about something, or how to proceed spiritually. For the most part these experiences can be confirmed with scriptural support.
If the person claiming this is of questionable integrity or is lacking in spiritual qualification it would be imperitive to rule out whether or not his/her claims are better accounted for by one of these other more basic bio-psychological experiences of 'intuition'.
What do you guys think?
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - October 14, 2004 11:51 pm
If the person claiming this is of questionable integrity or is lacking in spiritual qualification it would be imperitive to rule out whether or not his/her claims are better accounted for by one of these other more basic bio-psychological experiences of 'intuition'.
And who would be a judge of that? This is very dangerous grounds. God has His plan for everyone, and if it is His will to talk to fallen person, I’m sure He can do that. Gods love and compassion is not based on spiritual qualification. Don't judge, and you won't be judged.
Gopakumardas - October 15, 2004 4:45 am
And who would be a judge of that? This is very dangerous grounds. God has His plan for everyone, and if it is His will to talk to fallen person, I’m sure He can do that. Gods love and compassion is not based on spiritual qualification. Don't judge, and you won't be judged.
You will be the 'judge'. But this 'judgement' is called the faculty of discrimination. One should look for certain characteristics in the person who is claiming spiritual intuition.
If I tell you that 'god' wants us to chant japa and meditate on an all-pervasive blue light you may want to say, "where do you get that from? What is your statement based on?" If I argue, "An intuitive hunch" then you can't argue back... unless you also know that what I say is scripturally unfounded and I am an inconsistent sadhaka in the early stages of bhajana kriya. Then you can know that what I am saying may not be valid. Then you may check with a sadhu.. and she will confirm... Gopa's insight is not dependable. Make that discrimination... or 'judgement'... and when I get my feelings hurt by it, I will become more humble for it. Its a win win situation.
So yes,... with kindness and care one should discriminate between people and the value of what they say. Or else we would be following our every crackpot whim and emotional dysfunction. Most of us won't deny that people are slaves to their psychology for the most part and only rare souls have real insight into the desire of the Absolute independant of selfishness. Real feeling for the Absolute is rarely achieved. That rare soul has intuition. This is how and why we choose guru, because he/she is qualified and their 'intuition' is likely valid.
God's love and compassion is unbounded, and his love and compassion are not dependant on qualification... But we shouldn't count on that and throw out all guidelines for discriminating between what is real and what is imagined.
Someone who has had real intuition needs no external confirmation for this. But if one really wants to hear the desire of god it can be heard in the resonant sound of sadhu sanga and guru sanga. 'Dangerous grounds' is placing too much emphasis on our own 'insight' rather then that of an advanced person. I hardly think discriminating between qualified and unqualified people is "judgement" in the sense you quoted it.
Bhakta Ivar - October 15, 2004 11:46 am
> In a very rare and spiritually well-developed personality we may find that someone (yogi) has made contact or is able to recieve impressions from 'paramatma' or the indwelling Lord. This soul may get real impression about what is best to do in a matter or how to think about something, or how to proceed spiritually. For the most part these experiences can be confirmed with scriptural support.
It seems in the Gaudiya Vaisnava lineage we do not define a spiritually well-developed personality on the basis of their contact with paramatma. We value a learned person, who is humble an has a serving attitude, and who understands the importance of preaching.
If we add intuition to the list of essential qualities of an enlightened soul, certain individuals we may now regard as highly advanced may no longer be so.
Obviously no one ever heard Paramatma say: "Forget about that gurukula-system! It won't work and will have disastrous results!" And: "Don't give this person sannyasa! It will drive him to suicide!"
Perhaps we should "add" intuition to the list, but that will create some difficulties. ISKCON has made the list very simple: one should come to the morning program, chant 16 rounds, read the books two hours a day and follow the regulative principles. Thus anyone with a strong Saturn (the planet of discipline) may become Guru. Jupiter (wisdom) and Neptune (intuition) are not essential.
Ivar
Gopakumardas - October 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Having true spiritual insight, whether we refer to it as intuition or not, is critical in a guru. One's guru should be at the highest stages of sadhana bhakti at least or best if the guru is a bhava or prema bhakta. This means the guru is being invested with sambhanda jnana or knowledge of one's constitutional position and 'what is what'. The guru should be getting empowered from 'the other side', from the higher sector. Krsna consciousness goes from up to down. Yes, this is required of a guru.
With all due respect, I hardly think ISKCON's standard for who should be a guru is a model to emulate.
Bhakta Ivar - October 15, 2004 4:47 pm
Having true spiritual insight, whether we refer to it as intuition or not, is critical in a guru.
True spiritual insight is not the same as intuition. If we discuss intuition, we should stick to the general understanding and meaning of the word.
The guru should be getting empowered from 'the other side', from the higher sector. Krsna consciousness goes from up to down. Yes, this is required of a guru.
This is the disciplic succesion. It is not required that a guru gets subtle messages, or hears the voice of God in his head. It is not at all necessary for a guru to have such a direct line of communication, or to have prophetic dreams etc.
This means the guru is being invested with sambhanda jnana or knowledge of one's constitutional position and 'what is what'.
That is received through scripture and parampara, not through some mystical process.
The main point is this: A bonafide guru, a self-realized person, a pure devotee of Krishna, will sometimes make mistakes, die in an accident or do other things which might have been warned against by intuition. Such mistakes do not disqualify the guru in any way. That's why it's important to not associate mystical or psychic abilities with spiritual advancement. The only qualification is proper understanding and practice of the siddhanta, as well as the ability to confer that understanding on disciples. If a guru has a well-developed intuition, that is nice, but not essential.
Ivar
Gopakumardas - October 15, 2004 6:03 pm
True spiritual insight is not the same as intuition. If we discuss intuition, we should stick to the general understanding and meaning of the word.
That is what we are discussing.... the meaning of the word. I am expanding on what I listed as the many possible meanings of the word 'intuition' as it refers here. I am not discussing clairvoyance or any of the other possible meanings when I say a guru should have this quality. I am discussing a true communication with caitya guru or supersoul which happens with purified souls. It does not happen in the "hey supersoul.. how ya doing?" kinda way. How exactly it works must be discussed by someone who has this level of purity.
This is the disciplic succesion. It is not required that a guru gets subtle messages, or hears the voice of God in his head. It is not at all necessary for a guru to have such a direct line of communication, or to have prophetic dreams etc.
That is not what I was referring to. I was referring to the relationship that exists between a purified soul and bhagavana Sri Krsna. For the bhakta his/her ista devata (Chaitanyadeva and Govinda) takes the place of the supersoul in his/her heart. Yes, they do recieve communications... sometimes through dreams, bhajana, voices, impressions etc. This is discussed by different sadhus in our line and throughout our scriptures. Yes, it is necessary that the guru have a link or exchange with the Absolute. Any spiritual realization a guru or pure soul may have is full of knowledge. So he/she is truly the 'intuitive' we speak of. This is a very mystical tradition. It is NOT good enough that someone just chant their rounds and rise early. For that matter many neophytes can be guru. Spiritual realization, with all the insight (not clairvoyance) this includes, is expected from a sadhu. Expecting less then a guru in final stages of sadhana or a bhava bhakta as guru will result in discouragement. Clairvoyance (or psychic knowledge) is not required, although scripture I believe does refer to this as a possible side-affect of the realized soul, or a mystic power. Bhaktas are not interested in this... but they may possess it.
That (sambanda) is received through scripture and parampara, not through some mystical process.
Guru parampara is not a dead thing... it's life comes from the power and relationship each member establishes with Sri Krsna. This is our siksa parampara of pure devotees.
Knowledge comes through the scripture, parampara (sadhu, guru) and mytical realization. This is what we seek. That is the mysticism of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.
A bonafide guru, a self-realized person, a pure devotee of Krishna, will sometimes make mistakes, die in an accident or do other things which might have been warned against by intuition. Such mistakes do not disqualify the guru in any way.
True, they do not. This is a question of one's prarabhda (manifest karma) or in the case or pure devotees (already liberated although embodied) a play of the Absolute to teach something or further fuel the pure devotee's bhajana. No argument here.
That's why it's important to not associate mystical or psychic abilities with spiritual advancement.
Psychic abilities are not necessary as already mentioned above. Mystic insight is important.
Again, the discussion is about the different meanings we can attribute to 'intuition'. I shared mine. The higher end of 'intuition' is what I consider the mystical 'intuition' a sadhu has based on his purity and realization in Krsna/Gaura lila which is full of knowledge.
The only qualification is proper understanding and practice of the siddhanta, as well as the ability to confer that understanding on disciples.
This is the least qualification. Spiritual realization, with all the knowledge this comes with, is better. In my opinion, this is the real qualification. The rest is included therein.
Shyam Gopal Das - October 15, 2004 6:27 pm
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, intuition is among others:
"quick and ready insight" and also "the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference"
I don't see why this definition could not refer to spiritual insight attained through the mercy of Sri Guru. Couldn't this be what we call realization? Doesn't intuition drive on the force of faith? And depending on our faith, our intuition can take a material or spiritual nature influenced by the gunas
As Krishna says in BG 17.3 "One's faith corresponds with one's mind, O Descendant of Bharata. A person is made of his faith. One is whatever his faith is." Thus the nature of one's mind has an effect on the nature of one's faith. One's mind can be one's friend or enemy, and in that way influences our faith. When we conquer our mind through spiritual discipline, Srila Prabhupada writes in the purport of BG 6.7: "the effect of controling the mind is that one automatically follows the dictation of the Paramatma or Supersoul." Isn't that real intuition?
The only qualification is proper understanding and practice of the siddhanta, as well as the ability to confer that understanding on disciples.
But how do we get proper understanding and practice? I'd say through practice in faith.
Babhru Das - October 15, 2004 8:25 pm
What an interesting topic. And what interesting places it can take us when discussed among devotees! And there have been some thought-provoking insights provided so far.
This is a topic that has some interest for me for a couple of reasons. According to all the personality-type tests I've taken (like Myers-Briggs), I'm more of an "intuitive" than "sensing" person. Also, when I was in graduate school, I was a member of the first-ever graduate seminar on the place of cognition and affect in the writing processes. Affect generally refers to things such as emotions, attitudes, beliefs, and motivation. We discussed intuition along the way, and I think one of my classmates wrote his MA thesis on the place of intuition in the creation of C. S. Lewis' Narnia tales. Somewhere in a box in a closet, I probably have some of the material we used or developed in our discussions. I'll try to make some time to look to see if there's anything there that may be helpful to our discussion here.
One of the things that makes intuition hard to define is that it is inherently so subtle that it's hard to measure. It's a "fuzzy" thing, which makes some folks uncomfortable discussing it. My understanding of intuition is that it's a generally non-rational way of knowing things. Swdeish phsychologist Pirjo Bigerstam, relying on Jung, calls intuition an "unconscious sensing way of acquiring knowledge." Because it's a non-rational way of knowing, it may be that it could be understood differently from different perspectives, so among devotees it may be congruent with the sort of inner dictation one gets that can't be empirically confirmed.
Anyway, that's a top-of-the-head response. Maybe I can make a more meaningful contribution by asking good questions when I have more time.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - October 15, 2004 9:10 pm
Or else we would be following our every crackpot whim and emotional dysfunction.
You mean like Nimai pandit? Just crying and dancing like a madman? 
It's all a matter of perception.
This is a very mystical tradition. It is NOT good enough that someone just chant their rounds and rise early.
Completely agree!
Gopakumardas - October 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Gopa said:
Or else we would be following our every crackpot whim and emotional dysfunction.
Nanda Tanuja said:
You mean like Nimai pandit? Just crying and dancing like a madman? It's all a matter of perception.
No Nanda- Tanuja... not like Nimai pandit. More like all those apasiddhanta splinter groups who have had their own idea of what being a follower of Mahaprabhu meant independant of the writings of Rupa Goswami and other Gaudiya authorities. More like modern day ritviks who 'just know" that there is no other guru other then Prabhupada from here on even though it has no basis. They are going on 'intuition', the kind I define as 'wishful or wantful thinking'. It may even be an expression or compensation for feeling abandoned or let down by Prabhupada for all the events that transpired since his departure. It is not 'intuition' in the highest sense.
See the spirituality of Mahaprabhu was undeniable and many spiritual authorities confirmed this such as Advaita acarya, who despite being a senior and advanced Vaisnava, fell at the feet of Mahaprabhu. Advaita even went as far as to preach apasiddhanta to have Mahaprabhu publically declare his superior position over him. If such a confirmed spiritual 'madman' has a whim... that we follow. Only then...
This came up with Nityananda Prabhu. People could not accomodate his 'spirituality' or authority given what appeared to be his avadhuta "madman" expressions. That is a valid concern. We would be wary of such a person's intuitions. But Chaitanyadeva made it very clear not to mistake or underestimate Nitai's spirituality. So there is the confirmation. This is discrimination. It keeps us from straying off the path. We seek higher authority for confirmation on things like 'intuition'. It is our job to recognize qualification in authority figures. You are here... so I think you do.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - October 15, 2004 10:46 pm
Well said!Gopisvara Dasa - October 16, 2004 8:39 am
Because there is a meaningless,ficticious horoscope in the newspaper doesn't mean astrology is not real. Anymore than a bogus guru makes real gurus nonexistent. What may pass for intuition is only what people who have little experience of intuition, can surmise.
I think it was Gopa who mentioned the rtviks.If those people had used their intuition they would never have come to that type of conclusion.This is a perfect example of someone out of touch with this higher faculty.They are always quoting things that are taken out of context.Intuition is a nonrational way of knowing, bypassing and thereby making unneccessary the overwhelming task of sorting through unlimited data.
It is related to common sense.But because intuition and common sense are largely lacking in society, it is more of an uncommon sense.And therefore is associated with clairvoyants and unusual people.But really it is everyone's birthright.It only requires tapping into it.The rishis or seers meditated and performed tapa,separating themselves from external distractions and were able to see the reality that was already there obscured only by their own misapplication of will.
You can read all the books and still not understand them.Intuition is a way of extracting the essential meaning from all the information you have gathered.This is what we find so attractive in a spiritual teacher.He is not simply parroting what he has heard.Like a paramahamsa, he is able to extract the essential meaning and very pragmatically apply it in a relevant way.
There are so many who have read all the books etc. and come to erroneous conclusions.These are examples of those who are not in touch with this higher faculty.To sort everything out without it, is such an enormous task that out of defeat or just laziness they default to the group think and subscribe to absurd theories such as rtvikism,which aren't very thoughtful.That is just the point; without intuition you can't possibly sort it all out.
Conscience is a related form of intuition.You don't have to have read neccessarily all the scriptural injunctions to get a sense that something your doing is wrong.
In summary,intuition is a higher way of knowing and like anything valuable takes some application to achieve it.I believe that is why meditation is mentioned early in the Gita so one can apply oneself in that way and make better use of what is to come in later chapters.
I think the Sanskrit word for intuition is Prajna.If someone has a Sanskrit dictionary maybe they could look it up.
Gaura Haribol,
Gopisvara dasa
Madangopal - October 16, 2004 12:01 pm
Just getting the general idea of the thread, I wanted to give a few thoughts.
First of all, I don't think ritvik is an example of someone using intuition. Yes intuition is irrational, but it refers to FEELING, or premonition. Ritvik is not a feeling that one is right, it is a conviction and acted upon with more and more conviction it becomes fanaticism.
An example: I may feel that my wife is really upset though not displaying any behavior that demonstrates such. That is intuition. Somehow I have this impression. Now if I go to her and ask, she emphatically denies that anything is wrong but I insist that there is, I am convinced I am right... That is conviction without reason. With the ritviks they are convinced they know what Prabhupada wanted despite his statements to the contrary. If they just felt it, they would be open to opposing opinion.
As for the role of mysticism, feelings, sentimentality, there is definitely a place for such in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Devotional feeling is the essence of the process. But it is not cheap, and acting on such a platform must be earned and not abused. I find the preaching and example of Prabhupada to defer to the rational and practical end of things in order to avoid the pitfalls of sentimentality. We should aim to balance both ends of this spectrum so as not to become sahajiyas or cynics.
Babhru Das - October 16, 2004 4:47 pm
Madangopal, I think Gopisvara asserted that the ritvik conclusion is a result of not relying on intuition.
I looked up prajna in my Monier-Williams, and it gives wisdom, intelligence, knowledge, discrimination, and judgment at synonyms. Perhaps Bhrigu could help with this, because I can see how intuition could be implied in wisdom. The others seem like more analytical ways of knowing to me.
I find great appeal in the connection suggested between conscience and intuition. And regarding intuition (and conscience, perhaps) as irrational, I prefer to use non-rational to avoid negative connotations in irrational.
And I really like the connection suggested by Gopisvara between intuition and commone sense. In his poem "Saragrahi Vaishnava," Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes, "Man's glory is in common sense." It's a wonderful, too uncommon, faculty.
Madangopal - October 16, 2004 5:27 pm
More like modern day ritviks who 'just know" that there is no other guru other then Prabhupada from here on even though it has no basis. They are going on 'intuition', the kind I define as 'wishful or wantful thinking'.
I was commenting on the idea above...
I'm wondering about the similarity of conscience and intuition. Intuition strikes me as an inner feeling or instinct. Like sense perception, but on the inside. Possibly a function of the mind.
Conscience has always felt to me like an inner voice, a guide. Possibly a function of intelligence. Could intuition be suggested as a by-product of conscience? If one is in touch with conscience they become more intuitive?? Hmmmm.
Madangopal - October 16, 2004 5:31 pm
Cambridge Dictionary definitions:
conscience:
the feeling that you know and should do what is right and should avoid doing what is wrong, and that makes you feel guilty when you have done something you know is wrong
intuition:
an ability to understand or know something without needing to think about it or use reason to discover it, or a feeling that shows this ability
Babhru Das - October 16, 2004 5:59 pm
More like modern day ritviks who 'just know" that there is no other guru other then Prabhupada from here on even though it has no basis. They are going on 'intuition', the kind I define as 'wishful or wantful thinking'.I was commenting on the idea above...
Right--gotcha! I guess I didn't go that far back in the thread. It may work if "wishful thinking" were included in intuition. I'm not sure it is, though.
There are specialized dictionaries and encyclopedias for many fields of study. If I go into town today, I'll check to see if our univiersity's little library has a dictionary of psychological terms, or an encyclopedia of psychology. These would have more complete definitions than a general dictionary, and maybe even discussions. For example, we may find a brief definition of a word that is also used as a legal term in our American Heritage dictionary, but we would find much more information about how that term is used by lawyers and judges in Black's Law Dictionary. A dictionary of psychological terms does pretty much the same thing, and a psychology encyclopedia would have even more infromation. I've seen them at larger university libraries, but ours serves a university with about 3,000 students and a community college with about 2,000.
Gopisvara Dasa - October 16, 2004 8:45 pm
"If one is in touch with conscience they become more intuitive? Hmmmm"
Yes, this may be the case.When one's conscience advises one to avoid drugs,alcohol,meat,etc.,they are in a better position,as these things cloud the mind and obscure our perception of reality.The ultimate prayojana(goal) of conscience and intuition is going back home.Conscience tells us when we are getting off the path and intuition gives us insight as to the best way to proceed.
Common sense and intuition inform us of our immortality.But unfortunately most people are preoccupied in superficial endeavors and are not receptive to the inner impressions.Or to external messages(such as the rising and the setting of the sun)for that matter.
When,through the death of a loved one,etc.,one begins to recognize their own immortality and become more philosophical and inward,they create a favorable environment for intuitive perception, as well as hearing from sadhus etc.
Vrindaranya Dasi - October 17, 2004 2:21 pm
Someone recently was telling me about an article on intuition in Yoga Journal. The author’s example of intuition was that when she met her ex-husband, she had a strong feeling that she shouldn’t get involved with him. She ignored this feeling and ended up having a difficult six-year marriage. The article highlighted similar situations, although her story was the example of “spiritual” intuition.
What Gopisvara said about intuition coming from the subconscious mind rings true to me. Artists are commonly described as intuitive, and they obviously greatly tap into their subconscious minds. The subconscious mind stores all of our memories and, as I understand it, categorizes memories and makes connections like a vast filing system. The “files” are mainly stored in the form of pictures.
I started to wonder how much of our experiences from past lives is also included in our subconscious. Perhaps what we call the “subtle body” is the subconscious. Given the Yoga Journal example of intuition, one might conjecture that either the woman had some subconscious past-life memory of the man who would become her husband or else the man had some characteristic that she wasn’t consciously aware of that her subconscious had categorized as potentially problematic. The subconscious then sent a danger signal. I favor the latter explanation.
I would love to hear more thoughts about the subconscious mind.
Seeing intuition as messages from the subconscious both increases my appreciation for it and shows that, although it is a highly useful tool, it is not infallible, based as it is on pratyaksa (direct sense perception). I’m basing this on the assumption that the subconscious is a vast memory bank that is able to categorize. Any thoughts on this?
I think that intuition on spiritual matters is based on memories and impressions of a spiritual nature. I don’t think that it would be messages from the Paramatma, because the Paramatma is described as a “witness.” The Paramatma witnesses and responds by facilitating our desires. It doesn’t take an active role in shaping and especially changing our course (our desires do the shaping). When we desire spiritual progress, the Paramatma sends the guru, who is the external representation of the Paramatma. At the stage of asakti, the Lord takes a seat in the heart. But the instruction one receives at this level is better described as communion than intuition.
Dayal Govinda Dasa - October 17, 2004 4:15 pm
A couple of things struck me when reading Vrindaranya's post.
1. There is so much sensory information presented to us in everyday life, moment to moment, that the conscious mind filters much of it out and leaves us with a manageable amount of stimuli to deal with. People to do this to a greater or lesser extent.
Maybe what is happening with 'intuition', at least part of the time, is that some of the information that the conscious mind doesn't recognise or acknowledge is made aware to us subconsiously. Thus we make choices subconsciously based on information we didn't even realise we had at our disposal.
Maybe people who are more 'intuitive', are just more aware of the information taken in by the subconscious than others.
2. I remember reading about a study conducted in Haunted houses and other places where people have reported feeling very uncomfortable and ill at ease. The study found that people often had these experiences when in an area where there was either overhead power lines, or a subliminal hum caused by nearby heavy machinery, or an underground stream etc etc.
Basicly, the subtle body can detect things in the environment that we are not consciously aware of and as such, finding no reason for feeling uneasy, we put it down to 'intuition' and our mind makes up the rest.
Maybe others have had experiences which they initially put down to 'intuition' but later found that there was a rational explanation for their feeling or choosing in a particular way.
Stories anyone?
daso 'smi
Dayal Govinda dasa
Gopisvara Dasa - October 17, 2004 8:54 pm
In trying to understand what intuition is,it may be helpful to identify what it is not. When one goes to a place and feels something,whether pleasant or disturbing,they (if they are sensitive) may be picking up impressions from the akashic records of that place.Everything that happenned there is recorded in the akash.
This may or may not be intuition depending on your definition.Another thing is when circumstances converge to a similar arrangement as a previous experience.This could act like an uddipana(catalyst) to an earlier insight that may have reccessed into the subconcious.A sort of deja vu.This can also happen in a negative way when the circumstances converge to remind you of,and thereby restimulating a distressful emotion,called an engram in the Dianetic theory.
The first(positive) example could be considered intuition,while the latter is an example of a state where the intuition is more or less shutdown.
The central theme is that we have innumerable inputs of information stored in our subconscious,far more than we could ever entertain at any given time.Intuition is a way of accessing the most relevant items.
The subconscious may contain things we've forgotten as well as things we are not ready to look at. An example could be someone who has conflicting desires with their spiritual path. If they are in denial of this they are constantly pushing down the awareness every time it comes up.In this regrettable condition there is no scope for intuition.This is different,of course,from recognizing their desires and chosing not to act on them.
Intuition can assist us in going home.The eightfold yogic path can help foster intuition.
Yama/niyama; avoiding those things that obscure our intuition.
Pratyahara;withdrawing the senses from that which could distract one.
Meditation,etc.
With all this talk of intuition , it may seem that the importance of guru is being minimized.That is not the case at all.Intuition simply helps us to gather the essence of what we have heard and express it in the most relevant way,rather than simply parroting.In fact intuition helped lead us to guru.Thank God for intuition!
Gopisvara dasa
Bhakta Ivar - October 18, 2004 1:15 pm
Any spiritual realization a guru or pure soul may have is full of knowledge. So he/she is truly the 'intuitive' we speak of. This is a very mystical tradition. It is NOT good enough that someone just chant their rounds and rise early. For that matter many neophytes can be guru. Spiritual realization, with all the insight (not clairvoyance) this includes, is expected from a sadhu.
I agree that this would be most desirable, yet from the outside we can never assess whether a person has a mystical connection with Sri Krsna Caitanya. We can, however, assess a person's knowledge, wisdom, practice and behaviour.
I agree wholeheartedly that rising early is no qualification for becoming a guru. To me the main qualification is that the guru can inspire one to make progress, and help one overcome the different obstacles on the path, such as ignorance, confusion and doubt. A guru should be a good teacher first.
I also agree that we are in a very mystical tradition. Gadadhara Pandit accepted his guru upon seeing his mystical realization. Yet we have been warned by Bhaktivinoda Thakura and his followers not to search for a mystical guru, but for a guru who understands the truth of our parampara and who can teach others in that regard. Of course, understanding the truth implies mystical realisation, yet I would not consider intuition a necessary part of that realisation. Rather love, humility and surrender.
Ivar
Vrindaranya Dasi - October 18, 2004 2:38 pm
Very clear and insightful post, Gopisvara!
Swami - October 18, 2004 3:29 pm
from the outside we can never assess whether a person has a mystical connection with Sri Krsna Caitanya. We can, however, assess a person's knowledge, wisdom, practice and behaviour.
The nine preliminary symptoms of bhava appear in the mature stage of asakti. These are cited by Visvanatha Cakravarti as external signs to look for as evidence of such a connection. Srila Prabhupda writes:
"Srila Rüpa Gosvämi also says that when one becomes an advanced devotee, he understands that he should be reserved and perseverant (ksäntih) and that he should engage in the service of the Lord and not waste time (avyartha-kälatvam [Cc. Madhya 23.18-19]). He should also be detached from all material attraction (viraktih), and he should not long for any material respect in return for his activities (mäna-sünyatä). He should be certain that Krsna will bestow His mercy upon him (äsä-bandhah), and he should always be very eager to serve the Lord faithfully (samutkanthä). The wise man is always very eager to glorify the Lord by chanting and hearing (näma-gäne sadä rucih), and he is always eager to describe the transcendental qualities of the Lord (äsaktis tad-gunäkhyäne). He should also be attracted to those places where the Lord had His pastimes (pritis tad-vasati-sthalepritis tad vasati sthäle). These are symptoms of an advanced devotee.
Bhakta Ivar - October 19, 2004 3:59 am
But is it really possible for a seeker or a disciple to perceive whether the qualities mentioned (ksantih, avyartha-kalatvam, viraktih, mana-sunyata, asa-bandhah, samutkantha, nama-gane sada rucih, asaktis tad-gunakhyane, pritis tad-vasati-sthale) are not merely external but truly internal? Although I must admit, some of these qualities, such as avyartha-kalatvam, can hardly be maintained externally unless grounded internally.
Swami - October 19, 2004 8:04 pm
But is it really possible for a seeker or a disciple to perceive whether the qualities mentioned (ksantih, avyartha-kalatvam, viraktih, mana-sunyata, asa-bandhah, samutkantha, nama-gane sada rucih, asaktis tad-gunakhyane, pritis tad-vasati-sthale) are not merely external but truly internal?
The most merciful Srila Rupa Goswami has cited examples of persons exhibiting these symptoms to help guide us in accessing if they are present in a contemporary devotee.