Tattva-viveka
Truth
Kishore Krishna Das - February 24, 2019 4:11 pm
Haribol, pranams sanga.
i am thinking about truth, and it's connection to the atma. I have heard, that which is true is that which is real, or eternal, and thereby connected to the sat quality of the jiva. But my question is whether the aspects of truth in relation to knowledge, wisdom and understanding are related to the cit quality of the jiva?
side comment: it seems that of the three qualities of the jiva, the cit quality is the hardest for one to define or grasp. Maybe someone has some thoughts on this.
Dulal Chandra Dasa - February 24, 2019 9:03 pm
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam11.11.3, Commentary by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura
vidyavidye mama tanu viddhy uddhava saririnam
moksa-bandha-kari adye mayaya me vinirmite
TRANSLATION
O Uddhava! Understand that vidya and avidya are my saktis. They are created by my maya, are without beginning, and create liberation and bondage for the living beings.
C O M M E N TA R Y
"What is this avidya, by which the jiva develops a false relationship with the gunas?" Both vidya and avidya are my saktis (tanu), by which liberation and bondage are produced. Vidya produces liberation and avidya produces bondage for the embodied beings. These are created by my great sakti, maya. Moreover, because they are aspects of maya, metaphorically, they are said to be created by maya. But they are without beginning (adye).
(commentary inline quote)
na tasya kalavayavaih parinamadayo gunah
anady anantam avyaktam nityam karanam avyayam
Prakrti is not subject to the six kinds of transformation caused by the influence of time. Rather, it has no birth, no death, no existence, no increase, no change, and no decrease. It is the cause of the universe. SB 12.4.19
(tika continues)
Medical scriptures also say sumso 'sti prakrtir nitya: the prakrti of the Lord is eternal. Like maya, her modes, vidya and avidya, are eternal. Maya thus has three modes: pradhana, avidya and vidya. Pradhana creates the coverings (upadhi—subtle and gross bodies), which are real. Avidya creates the imposition of the body (adhyasa), which is false. Vidya destroys the false identity. These are the three products of maya.
Dulal Chandra Dasa - February 24, 2019 9:16 pm
Attached is a portion of Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's 28th Anuccheda of the Paramātmā Sandarbha wherein the intrinsic quality of consciousness and bliss are discussed.
As for the jīva having the capacity to know, that is mentioned in the 35th Anuccheda:
"Moreover, by the very same statement it is further shown that the capacity to know [jnatrtva, quality no. 18] also belongs even to the pure atma [by virtue of its being a knower of the presentational field]. And this cognitive capacity, being a natural attribute of the eternal self, is also eternal and thus does not undergo modifications."
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 25, 2019 7:20 pm
It is said that sat is existence and asat is that which does not exist (that which is temporary). Sat is existence or eternality, but consciousness is existence with knowledge (cit). Cit is the capacity to know, or cognize. In this way, truth is more related to cit.
At the same time, the three aspects of sad-cid-ananda are all “truth,” and Srila Prabhupada refers to the Supreme Absolute Truth as sac-cid-ananda vigraha.
Guru Maharaja has paraphrased Jiva Goswami In Paramatma-sandarbha as saying, “A light bulb is self-luminous, svayam-prakasa, whereas, objects like a table require a light source to be seen. Therefore, they are not self-luminous. But a light bulb is not self-aware and we thus refer to it as "inert." The atma, on the other hand, is not only self-luminous but also self-aware. Furthermore, the atma illuminates itself and other objects, and it is also conscious of itself. For this reason, the atma is called cid-rupa, or inherently of the nature of consciousness.”
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 25, 2019 7:30 pm
In relation to "that which is true is that which is real, or eternal, and thereby connected to the sat quality of the jiva," it is also important to remember that truth exists independently of the jiva's capacity to comprehend truth. It is certainly not the case that everything that is true is connected to the fact that the jiva exists (sat).
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 25, 2019 8:08 pm
The first quotation of Dulal Chandra indirectly highlights the fact that there are different levels of knowledge, as well as different levels of truth. The quotation is not speaking of transcendental knowledge, but rather the vidya of sattva-guna. Such knowledge can at the optimum result in self-realization, whereas bhakti (raja-vidya) is required for liberation.
Kishore Krishna Das - February 26, 2019 2:32 am
Thank you for the helpful comments, helped me solidify my understanding of cit. I am reflecting on how nuanced the idea of truth is. The definition I found was, "that which is true". So I looked up true, and the first definition was "in accordance with reality". Interesting to note that there is an inherent accordance, or obedience to reality. This connects nicely to how a devotee is sometimes called sattam (I believe that's the word).
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 26, 2019 2:24 pm
In the second verse of Srimad Bhagavatam (and elsewhere), devotees are called satām. Srila Prabhupada said, “Satām means those who are trying for having eternal life.”
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 26, 2019 2:31 pm
Satya means true, real, honest, virtuous.
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 26, 2019 3:01 pm
"In this way, truth is more related to cit."
Not according to Wikipedia, apparently:
-
sat (सत्):[9] In Sanskrit sat means "being, existing", "living, lasting, enduring", "real, actual", "true, good, right", "beautiful, wise, venerable, honest", or "that which really is, existence, essence, true being, really existent, good, true".[9][note 2]
Satchitananda is therefore translated as "Truth Consciousness Bliss",[3][15][16] "Reality Consciousness Bliss",[17][18] "Existence Consciousness Bliss",[2]
Brahma Samhita Das - February 26, 2019 9:32 pm
Gurumaharaj often say that cit (conscious awareness, or wisdom ) presupposes sat (someone to be consciously aware, or wise) and ananda (the bliss of wise love) presupposes both sat and cit. (paraphrase)
cid seems to bridge sat with ananda.
a reflection:
drawing a triangle begins with a dot, (sat) like a seed sown in the soil of the canvas. Sprouting a line seeking itself, guided by wisdom (cid) , closes the triangle (ananda) the primeval form (vigraha)
two triangles in juxtaposition, centered with klim form the hexagon (sat-kona) of Goloka
what a mystery!
Brahma Samhita Das - February 26, 2019 10:55 pm
7 hours ago, Vrindaranya dasi said:
- sat (सत्):[9] In Sanskrit sat means "being, existing", "living, lasting, enduring", "real, actual", "true, good, right", "beautiful, wise, venerable, honest", or "that which really is, existence, essence, true being, really existent, good, true".[9][note 2]
Satchitananda is therefore translated as "Truth Consciousness Bliss",[3][15][16] "Reality Consciousness Bliss",[17][18] "Existence Consciousness Bliss",[2]
interesting to see that sat also means beautiful!.
that which is true is beautiful
the sun reveals the world "as she is" beautiful
satyam shivam sundaram
I was searching the origin of this famous aphorism without success... from where it comes?
Swami - February 26, 2019 11:33 pm
KIshore said:
"I have heard, that which is true is that which is real, or eternal, and thereby connected to the sat quality of the jiva. But my question is whether the aspects of truth in relation to knowledge, wisdom and understanding are related to the cit quality of the jiva?
I don't know where you have heard that whatever is true is connected to the jiva because the jiva is sat. That sounds like you are saying that the jiva is the source of truth. Scripture tell us that we jivas are a unit of sat, a unit of truth or eternity, not the source of it. And many of us are untruthful for that matter.
I much appreciate Dulal pointing us to the Sandarbhas. Best to study such texts in detail before trying to draw deeper meaning out of what little we know.
Kishore also said:
"it seems that of the three qualities of the jiva, the cit quality is the hardest for one to define or grasp. Maybe someone has some thoughts on this."
What is hard to understand about cit? It means that the jiva is not inert. It can cognize. We exist (sat). We are aware that we exist (cit). And we exist ultimately to love or taste bliss (ananda). Thanks also to Vrindaranya for the clarity and representing the scripture as well as thinking philosophically within the parameters of the siddhanta.
Need to learn the sastra before writing a commentary. And as far as commentaries go, I have written about sat cit ananda at some length in the third chapter of Sacred Preface.
Swami - February 26, 2019 11:58 pm
"cid seems to bridge sat with ananda. "
Hmmm. . . . not really
"a reflection:
drawing a triangle begins with a dot, (sat) like a seed sown in the soil of the canvas. Sprouting a line seeking itself, guided by wisdom (cid) , closes the triangle (ananda) the primeval form (vigraha)
two triangles in juxtaposition, centered with klim form the hexagon (sat-kona) of Goloka
what a mystery! "
Mixed metaphors are like rasabhasa—triangles, soil, canvass. Then you appear to have sat seeking itself, but the jiva is a unit of sat cit ananda seeking its source. The two triangles that form the hexagon of Goloka have nothing to do with the jiva's nature. This poetry would not pass Svarupa Damodara.
It is good to use your intelligence but there is just so much to learn in terms of what has been said by our acaryas before needing to come up with something that has not been said. Keep trying.
Kishore Krishna Das - February 27, 2019 1:42 am
To add to the list, I also speak very loosely, and often don't take the time to properly convey what little I do know, expecting others to somehow make sense of it.
i will try my best to duly consider whether I understand a subject enough to speak about it. And then duly consider how to best convey my thoughts on it.
Thank you for your advice, and patience
Brahma Samhita Das - February 27, 2019 2:14 am
2 hours ago, Swami said:"cid seems to bridge sat with ananda. "
Hmmm. . . . not really
"a reflection:
drawing a triangle begins with a dot, (sat) like a seed sown in the soil of the canvas. Sprouting a line seeking itself, guided by wisdom (cid) , closes the triangle (ananda) the primeval form (vigraha)
two triangles in juxtaposition, centered with klim form the hexagon (sat-kona) of Goloka
what a mystery! "
Mixed metaphors are like rasabhasa—triangles, soil, canvass. Then you appear to have sat seeking itself, but the jiva is a unit of sat cit ananda seeking its source. The two triangles that form the hexagon of Goloka have nothing to do with the jiva's nature. This poetry would not pass Svarupa Damodara.
It is good to use your intelligence but there is just so much to learn in terms of what has been said by our acaryas before needing to come up with something that has not been said. Keep trying.
thanks Gurumaharaj. That was good for me to hear!
I need to learn the tattva...
what is your recommendation to get a structure of ones studies?
excuse me for this rasabasa. I will stop writing and use that time for reading!
Vrindaranya Dasi - February 27, 2019 2:51 am
Thanks for your posts, Guru Maharaja. It seems that whether spiritual truth is more connected with the sat or cit aspect of the svarupa-sakti has not been conclusively established. I was hoping you could confirm whether the following understanding is correct.
It seems that when sat is defined as truth, it is “truth” in the sense of eternal existence: that which exists eternally is real or “truth.” However, when we are speaking of truth in the sense of siddhanta, then such “truth” is connected with the samvit (cit) aspect of the svarupa-sakti. So, for a jiva to understand siddhanta, he or she must take shelter of the samvit potency of the svarupa-sakti (in bhakti). The cit within the jiva gives that jiva the capacity to understand the transcendental knowledge (this capacity must be coupled with taking shelter of the samvit potency). The transcendental knowledge itself comes from the samvit potency of the svarupa-sakti.
Here is a verse which substantiates this understanding:
CC Madhya 6.159
ānandāṁśe ‘hlādinī,’ sad-aṁśe ‘sandhinī’
cid-aṁśe ‘samvit’, yāre jñāna kari māni
ānanda-aṁśe — in the part of bliss; hlādinī — the pleasure potency; sat-aṁśe — in the part of eternity; sandhinī — the sandhinī potency; cit-aṁśe — in the part of knowledge; samvit— the samvit potency; yāre — which; jñāna — as knowledge; kari māni — we accept.
“The three portions of the spiritual potency are called hlādinī [the bliss portion], sandhinī [the eternity portion] and samvit [the knowledge portion]. We accept knowledge of these as full knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Purport of Srila Prabhupada
To acquire knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one must take shelter of the samvit potency of the Supreme Lord.
In the above verse and purport, it says that samvit is the knowledge (cit) portion of the spiritual potency. Srila Prabhupada says that to acquire knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one must take shelter of the samvit potency. Therefore, knowledge, siddhanta, or “truth” of this nature comes from the samvit/cit potency.
Swami - February 27, 2019 10:24 am
Excellent post, Vrindaranya. Good example of how to explore the sastra for answers when discussing topics and then putting together a conclusive answer or arriving at the siddhanta.