Tattva-viveka
Other Lineages of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the West
Valerio Giannini - November 30, 2004 11:09 pm
Seeing Srila Bhakti Hridoy Bon Maharaja's picture in Berlin, I was charmed by that young gaudiya preacher in white dress sitted at his desktop and writing by typewriter. I wondered so many times if his disciples (like Vamana das - Walter Edilitz) and grand-disciples carried on his mission in the West. I read Our family the Gaudiya math by BA Paramadvaiti Svami. He says Bon maharaja and other preachers established centers in England and London. But are they still active preaching centers? Did they give birth to gaudiya lineages other than Bhaktivedanta-BhaktiRakshaka lineages, though small and unknown to us? I know only Sri Vasudeva Gaudiya Math in London, whrere the first western vaishnavi lived. That center is now managed by Gaudiya Mission. But it is practically impossible to locate the other ones by web search. Perhaps some of you may know more than me. Are they active or not?
Valerio
Bhrigu - December 1, 2004 5:41 am
Dear Valerio,
Bon Maharaja and Bhaktipradipa Tirtha Maharaja established a centre in London in 1933. For a time, they also had a small centre in Bournemouth. The London centre functioned under their leadership until 1935, after which Aprakrita Bhaktisaranga Goswami took over for a couple of more years. After he returned to India, the active programmes were over. Bon Maharaja had plans for building a temple and even managed to collect the money for it from a Maharaja, but the war stopped all such plans. Some English disciples remained, such as Vinodavani Dasi. She was a staunch supporter of the Gaudiya Mission, and testamented her house in a London suburb to the them. Three Indian brahmacaris manage the place now. They have beautiful Gauranga and Radha-Krishna murtis and very sweet aratis and kirtans. Practically no outreach -- they just cater to part of the Bengali community in London. But do visit them if you have the chance. Dharmadasa Brahmacari, the pujari, is an extremely sweet and sincere devotee.
The centre in Berlin was basically just Bon Maharaja. He stayed in Berlin for a year or so and published a book in German, but when he had to leave there was nobody to continue the preaching. And then the war came -- the house where the centre was situated was bombed and destroyed.
Walter Eidlitz never established any centres, but he had a circle of students in Sweden where he lived after returning from India. Some are still active Gaudiyas. There is one Nitai Dasa who took initiation from Haripada Dasa Babaji and who spends time at Radhakunda yearly.
I don't know about Sadananda. He was Eidlitz's shiksha-guru, but I suppose he must have had students in Germany also, some of whom would probably still be alive. Even some of the persons who corresponded with Bon Maharaja might be. I hope somebody would research these things before it's too late.
Your servant,
Bhrgu
And another picture for your interest. Bon Maharaja at a preaching program in Caxton Hall, London. Lord Zetland presiding.
Babhru Das - December 1, 2004 6:28 am
Goursundar (the original ISKCON Goursundar) and Tarun Kanti went to Vinoda-vani's place looking for a Bengali Jaiva Dharma. Tarun said she was nice, but she was the whole show.
I used to have a kirtan recorded in London in the '30s, which I had downloaded from Vipramukhya's site. I lost it in my move, I guess, and it had disappeared from the site by that time. I was disappointed because really liked it.
Valerio Giannini - December 1, 2004 3:14 pm
Brighu, Babhru, tahnk you so much for your replies. 
I think this topic is more important than we can imagine. First it's our history, contemporary vaishnava history. Second it's really useful to try to understand why their preaching didn't have a huge following like Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhara Maharaja's.
Isn't there any connection between the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, established by Bon Maharaja in Vrindavana and in London, and the Gaudiya Math devotees in London Brighu spoke about? Is it possible that they could be willing not to be identifed with other gaudiya groups just like some devotees said on this forum? As far as I can understand, Bon maharaja and other preachers had a very different approach than Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada went to the West in saffron cloth and preached vedic culture very loudly and to the general public - call it mass preaching if you like it. While Bon maharaja had a more "elitarian" preaching. But what was those devotees' spiritual standard? If they are active, are they gurus or not?
Walter Eidlitz never established any centres, but he had a circle of students in Sweden where he lived after returning from India. Some are still active Gaudiyas. There is one Nitai Dasa who took initiation from Haripada Dasa Babaji and who spends time at Radhakunda yearly.
I don't know about Sadananda. He was Eidlitz's shiksha-guru, but I suppose he must have had students in Germany also, some of whom would probably still be alive. Even some of the persons who corresponded with Bon Maharaja might be. I hope somebody would research these things before it's too late.
Any more?
So in England, Sweden, and Germany either there are o there could be "unknown" gaudiyas, living their spiritual life differently than us. It would be interesting to know how they interact with society at large. Are they monks? Are they lay practitioners?
Thanks! 
Valerio
Bhrigu - December 1, 2004 4:52 pm
Isn't there any connection between the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, established by Bon Maharaja in Vrindavana and in London, and the Gaudiya Math devotees in London Brighu spoke about?
No. Bon Maharaja established the "Gaudiya Mission Society", with Lord Zetland as president, in London. The Institute of Oriental Philosophy was something completely different. Originally the idea of that was a Vaishnava university, but today it is more or less a "grade school" in Vrindavana, with little Vaishnava elements, if any.
The devotees in London belong to the Gaudiya Mission, another Gaudiya Matha, which keeps to itself and doesn't mix with others.
Bon Maharaja, Tirtha Maharaja and the others also generally wore saffron, but yes, their type of preaching was different. They generally tried to emulate the preaching methods of Vivekananda. You can't really compare their preaching to Prabhupada's, since the situation was so different. There was no counter culture in those days, a lot of rasism, tension before the war, etc.
So in England, Sweden, and Germany either there are o there could be "unknown" gaudiyas, living their spiritual life differently than us. It would be interesting to know how they interact with society at large. Are they monks? Are they lay practitioners?
They would be lay practicioners in that case, but it is unlikely that there will be more than a handful of them. Most of the new converts drifted away from Gaudiya Vaishnavism when their gurus left for India/ died. I'm quite sure that there are no western guruparamparas coming from these persons. It would be quite exciting if there were a lot of underground "old" Gaudiyas in the West, with gurus and monasteries and all, but unfortunately there aren't.
Valerio Giannini - December 1, 2004 9:59 pm
Anyway, it would be interesting to know from them what gaudiya preachers did. At least for historical purposes. But I guess there must be some deeper explanations for Bon's and others' "failure" in that preaching task. Usually, when speaking with Iskcon devotees, I heard unfair words toward those great souls and pioneers. Now I would like to hear what this vaishnava community thinks about it. Bon maharaja toured all the most important universities in Europe, just to give an example. So he planted the seed of bhakti in some way. So people who heard from him got some bhakti-sukriti. Should we count these sukritis as a seed that is now bearing fruits? In other word, had Bon's and others' preaching a positive role in spreading the message of Lord Caitanya in the West, life after life?
Valerio
Bhrigu - December 2, 2004 8:06 pm
Yes, we sometimes hear that they were not surrendered enough/ did not have enough faith/ were interested in name and fame, etc, but I think that only Krishna knows the reason why it didn't work out. Perhaps he wanted to teach all the "big guns" of the Gaudiya Math a lesson in humility by letting "Abhay Babu", an ordinary grihastha in everyone's eyes, get so much more success than any of the earlier preachers had ever dreamt about.
I also agree that the early efforts should be documented. I have started doing it and hope to some day write a book on the subject, but there are many loose ends to tie up before that. Especially in Germany and the US.
Some sukriti was certainly spread. My professor heard Bon Maharaja give a lecture at the univeristy in Uppsala, Sweden in the early 60's. He doesn't remember a word of it, but he told me that it somehow still stuck in his mind!
Valerio Giannini - December 2, 2004 9:07 pm
I think that only Krishna knows the reason why it didn't work out.
Krishna and His pure devotees. The pure devotee does not live on the material plane. He lives in Krishna.
hope to some day write a book on the subject, but there are many loose ends to tie up before that. Especially in Germany and the US.
Perhaps you can create a website to gather materials that will be useful to your work. Both an ftp and an http. Something like the open software community is doing.
My professor heard Bon Maharaja give a lecture at the univeristy in Uppsala, Sweden in the early 60's.
So war didn't stop everything. They came back in the afterwar. I heard that even Srila Bhakti Kumud Santa maharaja and others preached in the west in the 60s and the 70s. How does it fit with our knowledge of Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada's international campaign? Was he really the only one?
And, besides this, and going very very far, can we say he was fully successful only because he initiated many disciples and there are about 10000 active members in Iskcon? In my humble opinion spiritual success is not based on the number of disciples. But on the quality of disciples, their actual self realization. Apart from the fact that 90 % Prabhupada disciples left Iskcon form different reasons (some simply left, while others went on with their spiritual search under another guru) what's the quality of these thousands of members?
V.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 2, 2004 9:21 pm
Can we say he was fully successful only because he initiated many disciples and there are about 10000 active members in Iskcon?
He was successful because he was Shaktyavesh.
Valerio Giannini - December 2, 2004 9:47 pm
Ok. I was not questioning his empowerement to awake many fallen souls. I was wondering and asking what those souls did after they were awaken by him. Or in other words if his preaching style or teaching method beared permanent and mature fruits on a wide range. I mean: many started, but a few finished. And why so many left? This is not to criticize Prabhupada but just to understand. Bon maharaja and others had very few followers in in the West and those followers gave up after their gurus came back to India. Prabhupada had many followers but many gave up after his departure from this world, some kept, and a few of these attained perfection. Now I wonder what the next stage will be in preaching in the west and what the results will be.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 2, 2004 11:59 pm
I was wondering and asking what those souls did after they were awaken by him.
Who can judge that? Srila Prabhupada use to say that the mission would be successful even if only one disciple would achieve perfection. The organization he left behind is still very strong if not in spirit but certainly in money despite issues it’s been having. Huge number of temples, published books, he opened doors to all other sampradayas and Acharyas to come to the West. He was a very special person, there is no question about it, he is a part of the Vaishnava history and will be remembered forever.
Many started, but a few finished.
I don’t know about that, Hare Krishna was part of 60s, part of the counterculture, it was hip, it was cool, and so that’s OK if bystanders leave. Now, some of good people left too because of the disappointment or because of the lack of good guidance, but thank to Guru Maharaja and other advanced souls and their "relief effort" some of those people coming back, just read biographies of the people on this board.
Now I wonder what the next stage will be in preaching in the west and what the results will be.
How about just boiling the milk for a while?
Karnamrita Das - December 3, 2004 2:34 am
This is actually Nrsingha .
Just to add a little to the discussion, I heard a talk where Srila Sridhar Maharaj was telling about Bon Maharajs preaching in the west. When he went to Germany there was an arrangement made for him to meet with Hitler. When he went to see him he said Hitler was paceing back and forth very intensley in his corridor looking half mad. But when they told him that Bon Maharaj had come he looked up and then said for him meet with someone else on his behalf.
He would have been an interesting addition to Gaudiya Vaisnavism 
, but I dont think I would have wanted him as my temple president.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 3, 2004 6:57 pm
He would have been an interesting addition to Gaudiya Vaisnavism
Highly unlikely -- he was much more into Tibetian Buddhism (Shambhala/Agharti) and the Thule Society (Thule/Vril).
Valerio Giannini - December 4, 2004 12:50 pm
Wow ! There is enough stuff for an exciting movie ! Or, at least, a book. Brighu, why don't you write a kind of novel about it? It could be called "The hidden history of western gaudiya-vaishnavism"... 
Joking apart, a book would be interesting. But I don't know if such details could be dealt with without having the reader get the eyebrows down and doubting about the purity of Gaudiya Mission. Western people see the nazis as 100% demons. I agree with that opinion, as they were not devas but asuras. And asuras have their gurus, initiation, rituals, knowledge, and evereything else but use it against God. Just as we read in the Puranas and Itihasas, they have the same "technology" like the devas but bringing the opposite result: challenging and hating God instead of serving and loving Him. It would be very difficult to make people understand why Bon maharaja would approach such a big demon. On the other hand it is easy to understand why the demon avoided directly speaking with a vaishnava. Demons know they could lose their power by the acts of vaishnavas.
But in my humble opinion the task of writing that book is worth the effort.
V.
Bhrigu - December 5, 2004 12:40 pm
Actually, I don't think that the Hitler anecdote is true. Bon Maharaja doesn't mention it in his own writings, neither is there anything about it in the Nadiya Prakasha or the Harmonist. He did try, however, to get Goebbels as the guest of honour at the Vyasa Puja celebrations of Sarasvati Thakura in Berlin 1935 (it was even announced prematurely in the Harmonist), but was not successful. Schultze (Sadananda) wrote several letters to Goebbels secretary, using the phrase "Heil Hitler!" at the end, as people were supposed to do at that time...
In retrospect, this seems terrible, but at that time the Nazis had not yet committed all the atrocities that we know of today, and much of what they had done was still unknown. They were generally seen as extreme and somewhat uncultured, but as a necessary bulwark against the communists. The policy of the Gaudiya Math was also always to cooperate with the temporal authorities. The Harmonist had a full-page picture and a tribute to one British king (I forget who) after his death, lavishly praising him. The British administrators loved them for that, but it cost them dearly after Independence.
Anyway, I hope that I'll be able to write that book one day.
Valerio Giannini - December 5, 2004 3:07 pm
But, according to Nrisinga Prabhu, Srila Sridhara maharaja himself told that story. How can we be sure the anecdote was not true? Can we suppose Bon m. didn't write it down as an editorial choice? When did Srila Sridhara maharaja tell that story? In which talk? Sidhara m. could have told it during the 80s, much time after the war, when people could accept the fact by a different viewpoint. Checking could be useful.
Valerio
NrsinghaDas - December 5, 2004 9:00 pm
I have an Mp3 cd that was sent to me by the devotee who runs the www.guardian-of-devotion.de website. It must have been burned by him and dosent have any dates on it but each track has numbers for a title, this is track# 9 called 81 12 02 76, I think it means 1981 dec,2, but I dont know what the 76 is for.
Anyway Lord Ramachandra said even if Ravana surrendered to Him, then He would protect him. So if by good fortune Hitler became sraddhavan then that eclipses all other considerations (at least in my mind). Real sraddha is hard to come by so if he were to get it then good for him .
I tried to post it a couple times but I kept getting "You cannot upload this type of file" its a winamp media file, as far as I know I can do real one or windows media. Does anyone know how to do it?
Valerio Giannini - December 5, 2004 10:25 pm
Anyway Lord Ramachandra said even if Ravana surrendered to Him, then He would protect him. So if by good fortune Hitler became sraddhavan then that eclipses all other considerations (at least in my mind). Real sraddha is hard to come by so if he were to get it then good for him .
I'm not qualified to write about such highly spiritual topics as what Lord Ramacandra ar any other Vishnu-tattva would say or do in this connection. But as far as I know (very little), Vishnu kills demons to give them sayuja-mukti, because they never surrender to Him. Real demons never surrender to Vishnu. Either they are killed by Vishnu or by vaishnavas or they suicide, as was the case of the nazi demons. This is not to support any kind of violent action performed by anyone proclaiming oneself as vaishnava. We can never be sure readers really understand what we mean. Om santi santi santi.
Valerio
NrsinghaDas - December 6, 2004 3:51 am
Iam not a Ramayan expert, but I remember hearing that when Ravanas brother was found by Hanuman and captured then brought before Lord Rama, he said he was actually coming to surrender, but Hanuman wanted to kill him anyway. Still, Lord Ramachandra gave him shelter. Then he told Hanuman "Even if Ravana himself came and surrendered I would protect him!".
As far as I understand that is the general principal of all Vishnu tattva murtis, to give protection to anyone who surrenders. I maybe wrong about that, but I dont think so.
Mercy is higher then justice. Sridhar Maharaj gave an example, saying "Oh Iam so fallen, the most fallen. I have no shelter, no hope. I have come to your special department of causless mercy, if you are to judge me I have no hope. Please do not judge me.Give me grace." but if while praying in this way we say "why are You giving your mercy to him? Hes not qualified!!" then we do not actually understand causless mercy, it completley overrides any want for justice.
What Iam saying is that demon or deva, both are karmic and cannot be attributed to the soul. Actually Lord Caitanya said all that is, is the religion of the mind therefore it is all inauspcious. The proper angle of vision is that all jivas are eternal servents of Krsna, and everything that falls short of that conception is wet or dry stool.
Take for instance Bali Maharaj. Before he surrendered to Lord Vamana, if you were to take the opinion of the devas they would have only harsh words for him, so much so that Hitler would look like a peanut to them in comparison. But Lord Vamana excepted him and now he is glorified by the Srimad Bhagavatam. If someone were to say about Bali now what the demi-gods would have said about him then, it would be sadhu ninda. !
That is the miracle of saranagati !!!