Tattva-viveka
Initiation Vows
Narada-kunda Dasi - December 3, 2004 6:47 pm
Somebody mentioned in a post how Swami doesn't always require a 16 rounds promise at initiation, so I would like to know his criteria in this regard and the explanation behind them. What vows do his initiates take, if any?
I know that Puri Maharaj, for example, does not require vows, but simply instructs his disciples what to do. For 2nd initiation he insists on truthfulness as the only qualification.
I would also like to know Swami's stand on the regulative principles. Over the years I have witnessed the struggle with them which devotees face once they are out of the ashram setting. Usually they join and get initiated while they are quite young, idealistic and inexperienced, having no idea that all the things they thought they had dispensed with will need to be faced at some point in one-on-one combat. A great majority then break one or two of these principles. This humbles them, but can also be very discouraging, as it becomes a source of guilty feelings and shame. It can also lead to fading away from devotional association and a feeling of personal failure. One is forced to indulge somehow but cannot reconcile it with their sadhaka identity and vows. There have been mental breakdowns and even suicides as a result of this.
Others try to rationalize the problem away by saying that a vow is only there as an ideal, while the practice is something else. I have always found this hard to accept, since it renders our word, which has divine creative power, meaningless and worthless.
I wonder if it is fair or beneficial to insist on lifelong vows when the initiate is just that -- a beginner who has no idea what awaits him in life. In addition, history has shown that extremely few people have really maintained their vows without a single falldown. One can argue that not everyone should take initiation, but it seems to be a great factor in spiritual progress.
I would very much appreciate hearing from everyone who has something to say on this topic, especially those who have gone through ashram life and are now living and/or working in a non-devotional setting.
Thank you.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 3, 2004 11:06 pm
Somebody mentioned in a post how Swami doesn't always require a 16 rounds promise at initiation, so I would like to know his criteria in this regard and the explanation behind them.
I think rules are not set in stone, but flexible depending on personal situation of the disciple. This is true; Guru Maharaja didn’t require me to chant 16 rounds during my harinam initiation. He knew my personal situation -- work full time, two kids, crazy life of the householder, so he left it open-ended, so I could start with small number of rounds and work myself up from that newer decreasing the number. I probably would have been surprised, but I’ve listened to many CDs with initiations he performed, so I new the drill, and appreciated that personal approach. Point is that rules and regulations have to assist practice, help it, not to be detrimental. For example, if Guru Maharaja asked for a vow of 64 rounds, I would not be able to do it living the life that I’m living, so I would try, fail, feel miserable because I cannot fulfill my promise and don’t make any progress. So maybe it’s better to set less ambitious goal but consistently make progress with small steps.
But being flexible doesn’t mean forgetting basic regulative principles:
1. No Eating of Meat, Fish, or Eggs (plus garlic, onions, and mushrooms)
2. No Gambling (or making a dishonest living)
3. No Intoxication (drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, as well as any drink or food containing caffeine)
4. No Illicit Sex (sex outside of marriage)
plus
5. Do not talk like people in general or hear what they say. You should not eat very palatable food, nor should you dress very nicely. (CC Antya 6.236)
6. Do not expect honor, but offer all respect to others. Always chant the holy name of Lord Krsna, and within your mind render service to Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana. (CC Antya 6.237)
7. Observe Ekadasi
etc.
This some notes on food:
Vishnu-smriti, Penances - LI:2. If a man has (knowingly) tasted any of the (twelve) unclean excretions of the body, or of the (twelve) intoxicating drinks, he must perform the Kândrâyana penance.
3. Likewise, if he has (knowingly) eaten garlic, or onions, or red garlic, or any plant which has a similar flavour (to that of garlic or onions), or the meat of village pigs, of tame cocks (and other tame birds), of apes, and of cows.
4. In all those cases men belonging to a twice-born caste have to be initiated a second time, after the penance is over.
Notice that penance is equal for eating a cow or garlic/onions.
Manu-samhita:5.5. Garlic, leeks and onions, mushrooms and (all plants), springing from impure (substances), are unfit to be eaten by twice-born men.
5.19. A twice-born man who knowingly eats mushrooms, a village-pig, garlic, a village-cock, onions, or leeks, will become an outcast.
Padma Purana, Brahma Khanda 19.10:O sages, one who eats garlic, onions, sigrum (a kind of plant), turnips, bottle gourd and meat, that person should observe a candrayana fast.
Hari Bhakti Vilasa 8.158,159, from Kurma Purana:One should not eat eggplant, banana leaves, sunflower leaves and asmantaka leaves, onions, garlic. One should not eat sour gruel (a thin watery pouriage) or the juice of the tree. One should also give up turnips and beetroots, carrots, kinsuka, forest figs, and white pumpkin. If the twice born persons eat these things, they all become fallen.
Now, according to Srila Prabhupada, and this quote clearly shows his flexibility and dynamic preaching:
This Hari-bhakti-vilasa, also Vaisnava-smrti, that is also imitation of smartaism. It is called smrti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra, depending on... (Srila Prabhupada, Room Conversation -- July 16, 1973, London)
So I’m not sure to what extent we should follow puranic rules regarding food (I remember eating some very tasty prasadam made of eggplant in Audarya). I personally avoid only garlic, onions, and mushrooms. Would love to hear what people think about it.
Madangopal - December 4, 2004 1:35 am
Sorry, not much time right now. I just want to add a note that there is a great lecture by Swamiji under the title of Contemporary Preaching - the regulative principles. It is from February of 2003. It may not be specific to individual instruction, but Swami discusses the objective and proper application of the "4 regs". Good, good stuff. 
Narada-kunda Dasi - December 6, 2004 9:37 am
Thank you, Nanda-tanuja, for the info you kindly shared. Actually just yesterday I took a macrobiotic meal as part of my job-training seminar, and yep, the leeks and onions were half the soup. Seeing your reply, it's like a warning from Krishna. Eating this felt weird after so many years, but I recalled an anecdote told by Tamal Krishna Goswami of a time when he and some Godbrothers in India joined Srila Prabhupada in visiting a lifemember's home. They were served a subji with onions among other things. Tamal Krishna was trying to bring this to Prabhupada's attention, but Prabhupada ignored him a couple of times, only to finally declare, "There are no onions in this subji!!!" Though they were obviously there, plain for all to see. So I guess time-place-and-circumstance...
Your definition of illicit sex as that outside of marriage is interesting. This seems like the only practical solution. What is Swami's explanation of Prabhupada's seeming insistence on sex only for procreation, once a month after 50 rounds?
Just a note on macrobiotics -- I haven't felt that good in years physically, as I did after that meal (never mind the onions). As a matter of fact, by contrast I realized just what I had done to my body through an inappropriate diet -- too many milk products, sugar, etc. There is something to their point that one should feed on plants naturally found in one's environment, observing variables like the season of the year, etc.
Narada-kunda Dasi - December 6, 2004 9:38 am
And thank you, Madan Gopal. Nothing like hearing straight from the source...
Ekanatha - December 6, 2004 1:41 pm
I certainly have no business interfering with Tripurari Maharaja’s initiation requirements of his disciples. Srila Prabhupada was largely very adamant that his disciples follow the standard rules and regulations. There are so many quotes in the Bhaktivedanta VedaBase on this subject, here’s one:
Our principle is to become gradually purified by avoiding the four principles of sinful life, namely 1. no illicit sex, 2. avoidance of all kinds of intoxication, 3. avoidance of all kinds of eating of meat fish or eggs, 4. no gambling. And if one chants Hare Krsna Maha Mantra with a vow of at least 25,000 names daily minimum that will assure him all spiritual advancement. If you have time you can chant 100,000 times daily. I wish that you society's members may take up this vow; it is not very difficult. On that sound background if you read Bhagavad gita As It Is then you'll make rapid progess in spiritual life. In this connection I may quote a verse from Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu by Rupa Goswami
adau sraddha tatha sadhu-sango' tha bhajana kriya
tato nartha nivrttih syat tato nistha rucis tatah
athasaktis tato bhavas tatah premabhyudancati
sadhakanam ayam premnah prahur-bhave bhavet kramah
THIS is the process. Thank you for your letter, and I am always at your service.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Mr. Saxena -- Hyderabad 23 April, 1974
Hare Krishna. Ys Ek
Karnamrita Das - December 6, 2004 2:20 pm
Well Ek you're not only reading but posting. That is brave.
Concering the "4 rules", we can take my favorite or one of my problem vows, "illicit sex". Actually Maharaja defines "illicit sex" for his disciples as outside of marriage instead of only allowing sex once a month for procreation. That seems a reasonable standard considering that most devotees I know can't or choose not to have sex only for procreation. It is interesting to note the Gaudiya Mathas standard in that sex is allowed within marriage---and illicit sex means outside of marriage.
As far as for Prabhupada disciples, are they bound by that standard. That depends on who you ask. A vow is a very seriouns thing, that in the West is not well understood or practiced much. If it is, it is associated with a New Year's resolution, and we know how seriously people take sticking to them.
Taking a vow before Guru and Krsna is a very serious thing. I can rationalize my falure to follow all my vows, saying when I took the vows of intiation I was only 19 years old, and was still seeing "trails" from all my LSD trips, but here I was with no knowledge of what taking a guru meant, saying, never again in my life will I break these four principles. It seemed easy enough, and no one was telling me how hard it would be to practive. I guess that was a good thing, or most of us never would have agreed. So in that way Krsna tricked us, or slipped in at just the right time. If I had to consider intiation now at my age, I could never imagine making such a committment.
Why Prabhupada created a higher standard then his godbrothers we can only guess. Perhaps knowing our promiscuous nature he wanted to give us pause for thought. Anyway, Swami's preaching on this subject is that Prabhupada was very flexible on so many areas and if something wasn't working, he modified it. Swami questions having a standard that no one can follow, and I agree with that.
In our marriage counseling, often a major problem is one person wants to refrain, the other wants to have some facility for sex. To save the marriage we have to make some compromise of regulated sex with the idea of giving it up at some point. Devotees in a marriage may be on different levels of spiritual maturity or material necessity, so eveyone needs to be progressive, yet compassionate and accommodating within reason to make a marriage work.
We still have to know that we need to give this up (sex and the enjoying spirit in general)to be progressive devotees, so it is not a question of "changing" the philosophy but ajusting the details. Details may differ with different gurus, but the general principles are the same.
YS,
Karnam
Vrindaranya Dasi - December 6, 2004 4:04 pm
Guru Maharaja doesn’t recommend eating onions, garlic, and mushrooms, but he does not consider it part of the regulative principles. I don’t think anyone does. About coffee, Guru Maharaja strongly recommends that all his disciples don’t drink it, but he does not consider that one who does has broken the regulative principles.
Also numbers 5-7 that Nanda-tanuja listed are important, but they are not regulative principles that one promises to follow at initiation.
The above quote from Visnu-smrti aside, I’m sure that the scriptures don’t consider eating cows and eating garlic the same.
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Swami - December 6, 2004 5:10 pm
Here are the Bhagavatam verses on the five “regulative principles.” Other than Srila Prabhupada’s application of these principles, the terms (dyutam, panam, striah, suna, jata-rupam) that the principles are derived from have a broader meaning as well.
abhyarthitas tada tasmai sthanani kalaye dadau
dyutam panam striyah suna yatradharmas catur vidhah
punas ca yacamanaya jata-rupam adat prabhuh
tato ‘nrtam madam kamam rajo vairam ca pancamam
Here is something Srila Sridhara Maharaja said on the terms.
Charm for the material world, dyutam, to get money very cheaply, not in the ordinary constitutional way, but by cheating process, this is dyutam. Panam is also like that, intoxication. That is earned by black marketing, panam. The energy I can collect in an ordinary sense, I am not satisfied with that but in some black way I want to amass some energy by panam. This is the meaning of panam. I want to give energy by unfair means. Striyah, that is raso vai sah. He is the center of all ecstacy, but we go to collect that experience of ecstacy in a very cheap way from material things. Suna is also a cheap way to develop the body. The flesh, mamsa, can be more easily utilized for the flesh in me than other vegetables. So it is all very easy, not in a regular and proper way to preserve oneself, but in a cheap way, by cheating, we want to agrandize ourselves.
Gold is such a substance that if one can get control over gold, he can have control over all material prosperity, the dollar, the pound, the rupee, rice, everything. If I can possess gold I can easily get everything. This is cheating. With a small thing like gold, jata-rupam I can control the entire food chain. I can control all the necessities of human beings. Cheap marketing, not a regular life, but in a cheating process. By these five cheating process we can become great, so they must be given up. We must be plain, simple and truthful and live here as a bonafide and sincere member, where we are. You are put in the jail don’t try any other black things to help yourself, but sincerely give your labor as it is ruled and you will be free very soon.
Swami - December 6, 2004 5:32 pm
Incidentally, aside from his decision to restrict his disciple's sexual indulgence to that within marriage for procreation based upon this verse, Srila Prabhupada translated the word striyah in the above verse as "prostitution."
I know a disciple of Srila Prabhupada who was serving in New Dvaraka during the same period that I was. He told the temple president that his vow regarding illicit sex was hindering his service and practice. Srila Prabhupada was there with us at that time. So the temple president asked His Divine Grace about the problem this devotee was having. Without thinking twice, Srila Prabhupada replied, "Then tell him to restric sex within marriage." This Godbrother is still active today, as is she who was his wife at the time.
Jason - December 8, 2004 4:06 am
I really appreciate all these posts. I think it's very honest and important to understand the principles and at the same time know what is practical for the devotee on a case by case basis. I've always been under the impression that initiation couldn't/shouldn't take place unless the devotee IS chanting 16 rounds daily and following the four regs seriously. For me, it's not the reg's that poses some problems as much as it is being able to chant 16 rounds daily. Over time, I've been able to re-arrange my life to find time daily for reading and getting my rounds done. My spiritual master is quite strict on that point.
I often wonder though...in ISKCON, most every initiating spiritual master will require their disciples to chant 16 rounds without fail (in fact, Mahanidhi Swami and BB Puri Maharaja often require more of their disciples). When the disciples eventually comes to their guru with concerns that they aren't keeping up, they are often THEN advised to do what they can.
Though my spiritual master sees the issue of chanting a prescribed number of rounds differently then Tripurari Maharaja does, I think that I would agree that being more open to case-by-case situations is more beneficial to the disciple in the long run.
It's interesting to note the differences between what Tripurari Maharaja considers "vows" and what spiritual masters within ISKCON require.
I think that I've battled with attentive chanting because of the requirements to chant for 2 hours daily. I wonder if better chanting actually comes from slowly increasing rounds?
Some in ISKCON feel that other Vaisnava groups become "loose" by not strictly requiring certain vows at the time of initiation. I don't think it's that way at all.
Thanks for the nice postings,
YS,
Jason
Jason - December 8, 2004 4:45 am
Being born into a 1/2 Italian family....food has always been a BIG thing with me. I love to cook and try new recipes, and since I made a consious choice 2 months ago to go vegan, I've had to re-create plenty of recipes. The fact that food has a close tie to the regulative principles, I wanted to comment and ask a few questions.
I was under the impression that the reason onions, garlic and mushrooms were excluded from a Vaisnava diet was more of a cultural/Ayurvedic diet issue. I know that there are quotes from sastra on the issue; still, I thought it was more cultural? I also thought that since those foods aren't offerable to the deity, and since we aren't (ideally) supposed to be eating unoffered foods, that was the reason the devotee abstained.
So, since I work full time and go to school, and can't always take prasadam that I've taken the time to prepare, is there any harm in having something that might have one of those foods in it? I would not consider offering foods at home that had onions or garlic in it, but if it's in the pizza sauce on that slice between classes....is it sinful?
In regards to the health benefits of certain foods, being vegan, I have to be more conscious about what I can and can't eat as well as what good certain foods will do for me. Garlic does a lot of good for heart health and breaking down fats in foods, etc. It's a beneficial food for maintenence of heart health. Why do we need to abstain?
YS,
Jason
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 8, 2004 7:55 am
I would not consider offering foods at home that had onions or garlic in it, but if it's in the pizza sauce on that slice between classes....is it sinful?It's a beneficial food for maintenence of heart health. Why do we need to abstain?
I don’t think it's sinful per se, but it might adversely affect your practice. The type of food consumed will indirectly influence the vibratory state of the mind and body. For sadhaka it considered to be very important to eat only Sattvic foods which calms and purifies the mind to maintain a balanced/focused state. Because onions and garlic are Rajasic food (making the mind restless and uncontrollable) and mushrooms are Tamasic it’s better to avoid them.
I've always been under the impression that initiation couldn't/shouldn't take place unless the devotee IS chanting 16 rounds daily and following the four regs seriously.
I agree. Aspiring devotee should try if he can handle the routine before making a big step. Tapa should be first. Vow is not a chip thing and breaking a vow is a sin of the soul. That’s why you should be very careful and think twice before making any vows. You say disciples eventually comes to their guru with concerns that they aren't keeping up, but how many don’t because they don’t want to disappoint their Guru Maharaja? How many struggle, fail and just quit? If ISKCON feels that we are "loose" it’s their problem, who said they are empowered to set standards? Their military style of one rule fits all is not something we would like to follow. Besides, lifestyle in 60s and now is quite different; it’s much faster and more demanding this days. So it’s natural and organic that some changes are happening to accommodate that, to keep tradition up to date and successful.
Dayal Govinda Dasa - December 10, 2004 12:53 am
In regards to the Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa, and vidhi in general I suppose, there are many opinions as to how much should be followed, by whom etc.
It seems that every group considers the rules they follow as the only 'pukka' way, as well they should. Guru maharaja has made the point on several occasions that if the Guru tells you something should always be done a certain way, then it should…by you. By following the Guru's instructions in this way we make progress. The difficulty comes when we come in contact with a diferent set of standards which may seem 'un-bone-fide' (as much as I loath the term), or just different from how we have been shown, and seek to find fault and criticise on that basis.
There are principles and there are the execution of those principles. The principles are unchanging but how they manifest in different groups may vary wildly.
I think it is important to recognise differences in Gaudiya groups, but we should celebrate them as a diverse maifestation of Mahaprabhus movement rather than use them as a wedge to drive between us.
So we may eat eggplant, and carrots (heaven forbid!), and others may balk at the idea of such things, but the principle of eating what is offered to the Deity remains the same.
Guru maharaja once had a conversation with Srivatsa Goswami (I believe) of the Radharamana temple (well known for closely following the hari-Bhakti-Vilasa) who mentioned that "you know, we follow the HBV closer than anybody", thereby implying that even they didn't follow it all!
As Guru maharaja explains during initiation, this path is a culture of chanting the name of Krsna (nama dharma) and these principles are there to support the practice and create a favourable, sattvic environment in which to engage in Bhakti.
Unfortunately now, the execution of the principles has almost become more important than the principle itself.
'16 rounds' has often been touted as a magical formula that will wing us back to Godhead. The fact that Prabhupada asked his disciples to first chant 64 (which they couldn't do), then 32 (which they couldn't do), then 16 rounds is often forgotten.
I have even heard it said that the reason why Prabhupada let his disciples eat carrots (again, forgetting the fact that he also ate carrots) was because he thought that it would be too much to restrict their eating in such a way, but that it still didn't make eating carrots alright.
As if telling hippies "no meat, fish, eggs, onion, garlic, carrots, intoxication, sex (essentially), or gambling" would be just one thing too much!!!
"We can do everything else, just let us eat carrots" !
In short, if the Guru tells us to do it, do it, in not, don't , if in doubt, ask.
daso 'smi
Dayal govinda dasa
Babhru Das - December 10, 2004 3:49 am
Too many devotees from different groups get so caught up in the details of their camp that they can't appreciate that diversity. Some just can't abide that some of us offer carrrots and eggplant, for example. And they often are rather condescending about it, making the point that Srila Prabhupada made so many compromises in the interest of "cutting the jungle." Well, when Srila Prabhupada visited Honolulu in 1974, he planned and cooked (as supervisor) a Sunday feast himself. One of the preparations was a baked eggplant and tomato subji that I would swear was a glimpse of the spiritual world. I've never had anything like it since. I saw him cutting the tomatoes and eggplant. That was a lesson in immersion in practical service. This was not a throwaway, compromise dish, but an offering of love to the Panca Tattva, their devotees, and their guests.
Narada-kunda Dasi - December 13, 2004 2:48 pm
an offering of love to the Panca Tattva, their devotees, and their guests.
What about the situation when devotees offer whatever they eat -- including things like soya burgers (or chocolate made by nondevotees for that matter) -- to their home deity? It's a nice principle to offer everything, and I always accept such prasadam, but I just wonder how the deity feels about accepting things he has explained are not what he likes!
Does he just accept the sentiment of letting him eat first? If so, this must be different from accepting the sentiment accompanying the "approved" foods, which are cooked expressly for his pleasure. Somebody was saying the former is aropya bhakti, while the latter is pure bhakti...
Bijaya Kumara Das - December 14, 2004 6:56 am
Our principle is to become gradually purified by avoidingThis topic is a very good one and thank you all for the insights.
It all comes down to association.
Pundriki Vidaniti was and still is a great associate of Sri Chaitanya and to this day I thank His Divine Grace for the purport about Pundriki Vidaniti where Lord Chaitanya tells his devotee to go back and whisper a certain mantra in Pundriki Vidanitis ear and he became maddened with extasy and Lord Chaitanyas' disciple saw that Pundriki Vidaniti was a devotee in disguise.
From this I took strength, that if I just kept at the process prescibed there may be hope for me. At first the medicine is bitter but now it is sweet and I look forward to completing my vows every day and working toward the goals first requested by His Divine Grace.
No one said it would be easy and if it was how valuable would it be ?
Guru Maharaja may have different expections of each of us depending on what He sees we need and can accomplish toward the ultimate goal.
Swami - December 28, 2004 3:04 am
What about the situation when devotees offer whatever they eat -- including things like soya burgers (or chocolate made by nondevotees for that matter) -- to their home deity? It's a nice principle to offer everything, and I always accept such prasadam, but I just wonder how the deity feels about accepting things he has explained are not what he likes!
Does he just accept the sentiment of letting him eat first? If so, this must be different from accepting the sentiment accompanying the "approved" foods, which are cooked expressly for his pleasure. Somebody was saying the former is aropya bhakti, while the latter is pure bhakti...
This is an interesting question. After honoring Kamalaksa’s tofu, etc. fallafal (?) yesterday I got extra inspiration to answer it. First let me say this about Kamalaksa’s creation, “Wow I have never has anything like it!” It was like the high end of Northern California vegetarian cuisine. Delicious!
On to the question. I don’t remember reading that Krsna does not eat chocolate or tofu. I can assure that he has eaten them. I have heard that in Puri that foods that were not growing in India when Sri Krsna was present are not offered, including green chillies. Pujyapada Sridhara Maharaja commented on this saying that it was more or less a physical conception. He is Lord of the universe. His universal diet is bhakti. This is what he actually eats.
I believe that he has adapted to many cultures within India. In the South he seldom gets chapatis; in the North rice is rare; in Punjab he likes corn rotis. Manyyears ago when I first visited Italy the devotees served me many wonderful pasta dishes. I commented that their offerings were delicious, but they replied that they only offer these to visitors, whereas as the had been taught to only offer Indian cuisine to the Deity. I suggested they reconsider. I doubt their version of Indian cuisine was as palatable as their pasta.
Now one can argue that there is more bhakti in offering him things that one knows he likes to eat, things mentioned in sastra. While this maybe helpful for bhajana at some point, we have the example of the most merciful Sanatana Goswami, who offered unleavened bread with no salt to Madan Mohana because this was all he could come up with in terms of ingredients. Madanmohan did of course ask for salt at some point, but you can still get that unsalted bread at Sanatana Goswami’s bhajana kutir. The devotees there have been offering it for the last 500 years plus.
So if we offer with love from ingredients readily available, Krsna will eat.
Swami - December 28, 2004 4:08 am
Sanatana Goswami's offering was some kind of baked bread ball, hardly as palatable as a chapati.
NrsinghaDas - December 28, 2004 8:15 pm
I had heard different "quotes" that Srila Prabhupada had said "soy is not even offerable to pig" and others like that. But when I searched the Veda Base I found this quote.
"I understand you are now expecting a nice child for raising in Krishna Consciousness. In this connection, you should avoid any spicy foods so long the child is within the womb. So far this soy sauce, I have no personal experience with it. I understand soy beans are nice, but I do not know about this soy sauce. "
So soy beans (tofu) should be no problem.
Vrindaranya Dasi - December 29, 2004 12:47 pm
Dear Kamalaksa,
Any way you would share your recipe with us? 
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Syamasundara - December 29, 2004 6:33 pm
Hehe, I thought about that a lot yesterday; who wouldn't after reading GM's enthusiasm?
I was on the fence actually. On one hand it felt a lot like a newly married man nagging at her wife, because what she cooks "Just isn't like mom's", instead of waiting to visit mom to taste her food, and learning to appreciate the new preparations that his wife offers him.
Not like it makes much of a difference, but I like the idea of Guru Maharaja waiting to visit Kamalaksa to taste his food, and like that, with all his disciples. Or at least this was my initial thought, that is, I didn't like the idea of us "competing" and imitating one another to get GM's favor.
But my conclusion was that the devotees are like prisms, and the same white light of bhakti, comes through and out of them with always new colors.
GM likes matar panir and gulab jamun a lot, but my version of them has never tasted like Vrndaranya's or Yuga Dharma's, the latter two always tasted more heavenly to me, and mind you, my matar panir is pretty mean.
Similarly, I am the king of pasta (it's in the genes !), but one of our first days at Audarya, Vrndaranya made this simple pasta (or pasta salad), with Audarya-grown oregano and thyme, avocado, feta and not much more, and I still remember it.
Not to speak of the plain rice (among other preparations of course) that Vraja-lila made for us when we left Eugene. Plain, jasmine rice, not even bhasmati, not a dab of butter, not even salt, but boy…
So, it's encouraging. I read a few days ago:
He is Lord of the universe. His universal diet is bhakti. This is what he actually eats.
I am not sure if it was GM's elaboration or still Sridhara Maharaja's words, but they are really intense.
Our Gurudeva does that a lot. He'll mention some well-known concepts but in such a novel way that you feel like a huge portal is being open in front of you, and he does that so effortlessly, like when Krsna lifted Govardhana.
This is actually a symptom of constant absorption and meditation, to put 2 and 2 together so easily with such complex matters.
Other than all this... so Kamalaksa, you made felafel, tofu, what else? How did you make the tofu? 
Vrindaranya Dasi - December 31, 2004 12:22 am
Shyam, I made a pathetic matar paneer until you taught me your secrets.
Syamasundara - December 31, 2004 12:18 pm
By the way, how do you use the quote feature?
NrsinghaDas - December 31, 2004 4:51 pm
You have to put one before you pu the qoute and then again after your done.
Syamasundara - December 31, 2004 5:04 pm
You have to put one before you pu the qoute and then again after your done.
Hey it works!
Syamasundara - December 31, 2004 5:08 pm
You have to put one before you pu the qoute and then again after your done.
Hey it works!
Oh you can also click on the icon on the right...
Babhru Das - January 1, 2005 6:29 am
Regarding foods said to be unofferable, or those introduced to India relatively recently, I have a couple of thngs to throw into the hopper. Those new foods would, I imagine, include eggplant, tomatoes, and potatoes, all of which came from the Americas. In 1974, Srila Prabhupada planned and supervised the cooking of a Sunday feast (the previous week's feast was awful, and Monday morning Srila Prabhupada made an announcement immediately after Bhagavatam class: "This coming Sunday everyone is invited to a love feast here at the temple [we had been having the feasts at Queen's Surf Park in Waikiki because the temple was not easy to get to then.) I will personally cook and distribute." One preparation he made himself (rather than starting us and supervising) was a baked eggplant and tomato dish that was unlike anything I have ever eaten. Maybe Karnamrita remembers more about this dish.
I have a personal story, too. In 1982, the gurukula headmasters had their annual meeting in Vrindavan during Karttika. After about 3 1/2 weeks staying in Vrindavan and eating temple prasadam, four of us needed to go to Delhi to attend to some business. Apparently that business included lunch at the Vega restaurant. When the lady came to take our orders, I looked at her and said. "I'd like a grilled-cheese sandwich, please."
Laughing, she replied, "I don't think Lord Krishna is eating grilled-cheese sandwiches!"
My response: "In Honolulu he eats them quite regularly!" That cracked her up, but I ended up with a large thali after also striking out on macaroni and cheese.
Narada-kunda Dasi - January 4, 2005 12:25 pm
My thanks to Swami for so kindly replying to my question. It kind of took down a few walls of doubt instilled by "temple training". Funny how these rules end up separating you from the Lord instead of bringing you closer. He is there the whole time, just waiting to be recognized and embraced as the closest person we ever had. I feel bad for rejecting his intimacy due to overattachment to rules and regulations. Fortunately he has been breaking down my false pride.
Nice to hear of the cooking abilities of the various devotees. One who can cook nicely has power over those s/he feeds
Narada-kunda Dasi - January 4, 2005 12:30 pm
The description of Sanatan Goswami's offering is also such a relief -- I like simple food and sometimes wonder if I'm torturing Krishna with my 1 or 2 ingredient dishes...