Tattva-viveka
confused about ekadasi...
Shyam Gopal Das - January 4, 2005 12:59 pm
The iskcon calender says ekadasi is on Thursday but Narayan Maharaj's calender says it is on Friday for Amsterdam. I'm confused. What to do now?
Guru-nistha Das - January 4, 2005 2:31 pm
Observe both 
Bhrigu - January 4, 2005 5:12 pm
Seriously, I think the question on calenders should be given some thought. The calender used in ISKCON uses a slightly different way of calculation than the GM one does. It is common that they differ one day. In practice, this separates the two groups quite efficiently, since they thus cannot have common festivals, etc. Which group do we want to identify ourselves with more?
Citta Hari Dasa - January 4, 2005 5:32 pm
Guru Maharaja follows the Sri Caitanya Saraswata Matha Calendar since it has dates for Srila Sridhara Maharaja (of course) and the Iskcon calendar doesn't.
Madangopal - January 4, 2005 7:11 pm
Consulting SCS Matha's calendar on their website I only saw dates for Navadvipa and California...
Following the great sage Bhrigu, maybe Bhrigupada prabhu could demonstrate how the proper calculation is done for someone a little tech savvy. That person could then make an Audarya calendar computer program like ISKCON has!
I see unlimited Audarya projects manifesting in the future: The Audarya calendar, the Audarya songbook, many releases of the Audarya bhajan band, the Audarya travelling festival, Audarya offspring centers in many parts of the world, the Audarya not-so-falafel cookbook!
Shyam Gopal Das - January 4, 2005 7:13 pm
hmmm I can't find a Sri Caitanya Saraswata Matha Calendar for Holland/Amsterdam. When are you following ekadasi, Bhrigu?
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - January 4, 2005 9:22 pm
Following the great sage Bhrigu, maybe Bhrigupada prabhu could demonstrate how the proper calculation is done for someone a little tech savvy.
The timing of this discussion is pretty amazing, because I've finished reading "Dearest to Visnu" book by Bhrigupada yesterday and already started to put together some calculation algorithms. First of all we need to find out if methods listed in the book are approved by Guru Maharaja (if he follows the Sri Caitanya Saraswata Matha Calendar we need to make sure that methods in the book correlate to methods used by Matha), then I need to work with Bhrigupada on algorithms (assuming he is interested).
Bhrigu - January 5, 2005 11:26 am
I've been following the ISKCON calender, Shyamagopala. I'm not very tech-savvy, but I do know the theory behind how to calculate Ekadasi according to the Hari-bhakti-vilasa. I suppose a program following it would be as bona fide as you'ld get.
The problem is, nobody else seems to follow the HBV. Most Gaudiya Mathas follow the Navadvipa calender, but for locations outside of India, it will not always be so accurate. ISKCON was the first (sometime in the 80'ies) to calculate Ekadasi separately for every temple. I don't know if the SCS Math does that also. Before we put together our very own calender, more research should be done on this topic.
And Madangopal, you forgot the Audarya book on arcana! There certainly seems to be enough to do for a few more days.
Mathura-natha Das - January 5, 2005 11:45 am
I found the Vaishnava calendar of Shri Chaitanya Saraswat Maths swedish version, and on that it says Ekadashi is on Thursday. Now, I don't know how they calculated the dates, anyhow if your are interrested and can read swedish check ut:
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - January 5, 2005 8:11 pm
The calender used in ISKCON uses a slightly different way of calculation than the GM one does. It is common that they differ one day.
I have done detailed comparison of calendar created by Vaishnava Calendar Program v.4.01 (ISKCON) and calendar downloaded from Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math website for year 2004-2005 (Sri Gaurabdha 518-519) for San Jose/Santa Cruz, California. The ekadasi fasting/breaking fast data is identical which makes me think that calculation methods used are identical as well.
Shyam Gopal Das - January 5, 2005 9:19 pm
The question then is which calculation method do the followers of Narayan Maharaj use? (their calender is downloadable from purebhakti,com)
Vrindaranya Dasi - January 6, 2005 2:10 am
Nanda-tanuja, it is wonderful that you want to do a program for calculating Ekadasis for our group. Thanks for taking that on!
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - January 6, 2005 3:48 am
The question then is which calculation method do the followers of Narayan Maharaj use?
I'm trying to contact Bhudhara das to find out what he was using.
it is wonderful that you want to do a program for calculating Ekadasis for our group
I'll do my best, but so far it looks like Vaishnava Calendar Program v.4.01 is pretty sufficient.
Bhrigu - January 6, 2005 9:52 am
I'll do my best, but so far it looks like Vaishnava Calendar Program v.4.01 is pretty sufficient.
OK. Then we just have to decide on which holy days to add to it and if any need to be subtracted. Also, I have never figured out the way the calculate the time for breaking the Ekadasi. In the HBV, it is in between sunrise on Dvadasi and the end of the Ekadasi tithi, preferrably at midday.
Here are a couple of dates that I think should be added:
Srila Sridhara Maharaja's avirbhava + tirobhava
Srila B.P. Puri Maharaja's a + t
Guru Maharaja's Vyasa Puja
I also think we should add the a & t days for the other main associates of Srila Saraswati Thakur. Any other suggestions?
Gauravani Dasa - January 10, 2005 2:04 pm
Just got this from PAMHO, dated Jan 5:
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I have made a program to convert the raw vaishnava calendar output of
vcal.exe into a .ICS format which is imported into calendar programs
like Microsoft Outlook. This means you can put the vaishnava calendar
into PDA's, palmtops, smartphones and even Ipods. Nowadays many
devotees use these devices and it is nice to have the vaishnava calendar
easily available without typing it in manually.
I want to put it up on some site for free distribution for the devotee
community.
The software is not released yet because I don't have any Beta testers.
If any devotees are willing to help me by running the program for the
vaishnava calendar text file of their city and then importing it into
their PDA then please email me.
your servant,
Amala Gaura das
Gauravani Dasa - November 11, 2005 4:51 am
From PAMHO on Oct 27 2005:
Hare Krishna! PAMHO. AGTSP!
VCal, the calendar calculation program, originally written by Shyamasundara
Das and later substantially upgraded with the additional efforts of
Markandeya Rishi Das, has been with us for more than 20 years. It was a real
ISKCON pioneer, making it possible, quite early in the movement's history,
for devotees in far-flung areas of the world to know when to celebrate all
the vaisnava holy days -- when to fast and when to feast. Before VCal came
to our rescue, every year there was a big mystery -- which day will be Rama
Navami, Janmastami, etc.? No one knew until the day of Gour Purnima. Then,
the Caitanya Math would publish its Sri Navadwip Panjika in Bengali. There
was a mad rush to the Yogapith to get a copy. Then Bhakticaru Maharaja and
others would painstakingly translate it into English, and slowly it would
travel by post around the world to the major centers, etc. Usually you had
to guess the day of Papamocani Ekadasi, the first of the year, and if you
were lucky you got the posted calendar in time so you didn't miss observing
Rama Navami.
With the advent of VCal, things improved greatly. The BBT in Sweden would
calculate the holy days for all the established ISKCON centers and send the
printouts by post, well in advance of the vaisnava new year on Gour Purnima.
Not only that, but the calculations were customized for each location. We
now could observe Ekadasi fasting and other days when we were supposed to
according to the scriptural rules, instead of when our unvaisnavic Western
calendars dictated.
Later, as computers became more common, the BBT allowed us to have our own
copy of the VCal program and run it at our convenience. And that system has
served us well for many years.
But the pioneer has gotten old.
Because VCal was written in the early 80's, its programming language is out
of date, and it no longer makes sense to maintain and update the code. So,
the GBC Vaishnava Calendar Committee (members Bhanu Swami, Markandeya Rishi
Das, and this fallen soul) has embarked on a modernization process.
The first step in this process can be seen at:
Along the way we have also made some adjustments to the calculation system
used by VCal in order to take advantage of our very latest research. A full
explanation of the adjustments is available at the site.
So devotees are encouraged to use this site now, whenever possible, for
their calendar calculation needs.
Contact email: vcal@iskcongbc.org
Your servant, Bhaktarupa Das
PS. If you need festival reminders sent to your inbasket, or if you use one
of the common desktop calendar programs to inform you of the holy days,
you'll want to visit www.vaisnavacalendar.info. This site is fully
synchronized with vcal.iskcongbc.org, whereas other vaisnava reminder
programs available on the web are not.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - November 11, 2005 3:38 pm
This is the correct link: http://www.iskcongbc.org/vcal/
Bhrigu - November 12, 2005 11:03 am
As far as I understood from reading the website, they will later make a more "flexible" version, allowing for adding the appearance date of gurus, etc. Otherwise, one may contact them by e-mail for a special version. Of course, there is no telling how long that will take. Perhaps Babhru or some other senior devotee could email Bhaktarupa Prabhu, if we just could first make a list of the extra listings we need. What is missing in VCal? Off hand, I can think of these days:
* app of Guru Maharaja
* app/ dis of Srila Sridhara Maharaja
* app/ dis of Srila BP Puri Maharaja
Anything else? I would love to add the app/ dis dates for other important disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur as well, but perhaps that's just me...
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - November 12, 2005 2:55 pm
Overall the application missing a lot of features which I would expect to see in the new generation of vcal. Such as:
1. It should be a standalone application, which should not require browser to run. A lot of people do not have internet connection, but have computers. Dependency on the connectivity is a bad thing.
2. Output should be better formatted, it looks old and clunky.
3. Need to have an ability to import data into most common calendar application (MS Outlook).
4. Need to have an ability to create calendar not only for 3 listed years, but for any year.
5. Need to have an ability to create calendar for any location, not just for listed once.
6. Need to have an ability to add any celebration date based on specified rules.
I would give them a benefit of the doubt and would hope that they will continue development and introduce some of those features in the next phase. Otherwise I’m very happy to see this conversion happening.
Bhrigu - November 12, 2005 3:48 pm
So do you think that we should wait for the next version then?
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - November 12, 2005 11:43 pm
Absolutely not! We have to tell them what we want. They might listen especially if it’s coming from senior devotee such as Babhru.
Bhrigu - November 13, 2005 4:37 pm
OK. Perhaps we could compile a list of dates that could easily be added into the program as it is today, and a separate one with more general suggestions for how to improve the program. They are not likely to do that just for us anyway.
Any more missing dates?
As for improving the system, I would like the program to give the year not only CE and Gaurabda, but Bengali and Samvat year as well. Years since the birth of Krishna would also be nice.
Babhru Das - November 13, 2005 7:39 pm
Let's come up with a list, and I'll submit a humble request to Bhaktarupa. We're acquainted, and we have corresponded occasionally over the years, so he might at least give me a hearing.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - November 13, 2005 10:38 pm
Anybody else has anything to add? Speak now or forever hold your peace
Babhru Das - November 14, 2005 1:22 am
Going back over the thread, and looking again at their site, it looks to me as though the best we may be able to get right now is addition of locations, which individual devotees might request. We could ask for Guru Maharaja's and Srila Sridhar Maharaja's dates to be calculated, but I believe that Nanda-tanuja's list isn't realistic right now. It looks as though that's what they also hope to achieve, eventually. And I wouldn't hold my breath even for those two dates, even if I ask. I'd guess that Bhaktarupa may point out that the program is a GBC-sponsored project, for the benefit of ISKCON's members. Until we can change the hearts (or at least the minds) of more ISKCON leaders so they can accommodate devotees' faith in GM and SSM, I doubt that they'd make their appearance dates part of their Web page. For now, we may just have to be satisfied with the old VCal and input significant dates into our calendar programs ourselves.
In the meantime, perhaps we should thank Bhaktarupa for his efforts and encourage swift progress in the improved vaishnava calendar program. If monetary support is needed, those of us who have the means may want to offer some token support, which may help loosen their attitude toward us a little.
For myself, I'm happy I don't have any followers who want to know my "vedic" birthday. I was born on the dark ekadashi of the Adhika masa, and I wouldn't know what to tell anyone to do the other years.
Bhrigu - November 15, 2005 5:00 pm
Until we can change the hearts (or at least the minds) of more ISKCON leaders so they can accommodate devotees' faith in GM and SSM, I doubt that they'd make their appearance dates part of their Web page.
I'm sure you are right about that, but if I understood their webpage correctly, the can (while devotees are waiting for the next, more flexible version) make customised versions incorporating the dates for individual gurus. They wouldn't put that on the webpage, just send it to the person who asked for it. It's not that Sridhara Maharaja's dates would become a part of the offical ISKCON caledar -- that would be quite a bit too optimistic.
Anyway, no harm in trying. More dates, anyone? Otherwise, I think we could stick with the ones mentioned already. Who knows the "vedic dates" for them (e.g. Gaura Navami of Keshava)?
Plus Babhru's avirbhava tithi, of course.
Bhrigu - November 19, 2005 6:57 pm
Since nobody's come up with more dates, let's stick with these:
* app of Srila BV Tripurari Maharaja (does anyone know the Vedic date?)
* app/ dis of Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja (app: ? dis: Amavasya, Sridhara)
* app/ dis of Srila BP Puri Maharaja (app:? dis: Gaura Caturdasi, Padmanabha)
The last date is according to Swami BB Tirtha's Sri Chaitanya: His Life & Associates, and differs (by a month) from that given in the Tattvaviveka calendar. What's the source for that date? I don't know which one is correct.
Babhru Das - November 19, 2005 8:15 pm
Actually, we could calculate Swami's with the old vcal program. All we need are the time, date, and location. 12 March 1949, in New Jersey. If we have the time and the city, even I could do it.
Nevertheless, we can ask Bhaktarupa to help, too. If he consents, it will be good for them to cooperate in this small thing.
Madangopal - November 19, 2005 8:41 pm
Holy Name Hospital!! Teaneck, NJ.
Lat. 40.52 N
Lon. 74.00 W
Madangopal - November 19, 2005 8:59 pm
If someone has the time, or if Guru Maharaj wants to let us know I can calculate this better. The only holy name hospital I found was in Teaneck, NJ. Not knowing what the time was, my calculation with old vcal turned this up... (I just put 12 noon as the time, just to get the day.)
The point in time, 12-03-1949 at 12:00 o'clock, in Teaneck,
occurred in the Trayodasi tithi in the Gaura paksa of the
Govinda masa in the Gaurabda year 462. (The tithi had elapsed
53.9 %). The naksatra was Aslesa. (The naksatra had elapsed 93.5
%).
Babhru Das - November 19, 2005 11:40 pm
Teaneck sounds right. The name of the hospital is easy for us to remember, isn't it? Now all we need is the time of birth.
Of course, we may also need to supply that information for Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Puri Maharaja's calculations (which we could also do on vcal, if we had the data).
Bhrigu - November 21, 2005 5:00 am
Of course, we may also need to supply that information for Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Puri Maharaja's calculations (which we could also do on vcal, if we had the data).
Easier than that would probably be to just ask some of their disciples about the correct "Vedic" dates.
Syamasundara - November 21, 2005 8:25 am
Rama-priya - November 22, 2005 11:21 am
Since nobody's come up with more dates, let's stick with these:
* app of Srila BV Tripurari Maharaja (does anyone know the Vedic date?)
* app/ dis of Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja (app: ? dis: Amavasya, Sridhara)
* app/ dis of Srila BP Puri Maharaja (app:? dis: Gaura Caturdasi, Padmanabha)
The last date is according to Swami BB Tirtha's Sri Chaitanya: His Life & Associates, and differs (by a month) from that given in the Tattvaviveka calendar. What's the source for that date? I don't know which one is correct.
Filling calendar in Tattvaviveka I used calculation from the site of Narasingha Maharaja, but there is calculation probably only for India. Therefore for calculation for area of San Francisco I used site www.purebhakti.com because only there I could find calculation for different areas in the world.
Now after reading this discussion I don't know which calculation should I use, from which site in order to fill calendar properly. I'm sorry that I join this discussion so late.