Tattva-viveka
health & vegetarianism
Jagannatha - January 28, 2005 4:39 pm
Some of you know that I have recently been diagnosed with a bone disease. The disease is caused by lack of blood flow to my hip joint and so the bone is dying. I am under the care of an excellent surgeon and an acupuncturist/herbalist. In my case, my caregivers both agree that the disease is most likely caused by an underlying blood condition. It seems that my blood is very stagnant and poor in quality and quantity. Besides the bone disease, the acupuncturist feels it is also the cause of headaches, memory problems, fatigue and other maladies I experience.
The acupuncturist is giving me herbs to try to build my blood, but she feels very strongly that all of my conditions can be, and should be, addressed by eating beef. She feels that nothing builds the blood like beef (and lamb) and that it is essential to my healing. She has recommended I take a beef broth every day, and also to eat organic beef.
She was a strict vegetarian herself for 12 years, and is a committed Buddhist, and understands the spiritual implications, but through her own experience and practice of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, she has come to the conclusion that a vegetarian diet is not healthy for people with certain afflictions, in particular, blood diseases.
I wanted to bring this up to see what you might think about this situation.
Syamasundara - January 28, 2005 5:21 pm
Boy, a beef broth diet... that would make ME unhappy, but I don't have a degenerative desease.
As Sridhara Maharaja says, eating meet is too easy and cheap. We are made of blood, let's eat blood. I am no physician for sure, but I know that red blood cells are produced by bone marrow, so how could your bone disease be caused by poor blood in turn?
I'll tell you a couple more things in private...
Narada-kunda Dasi - January 28, 2005 5:52 pm
Each dhatu (like bone marrow, blood, etc.) has also a psychological manifestation. If you work on one level, you improve the other. Poor blood is lack of zest for life. Poor marrow is lack of deeper meaning or sense in life. If you do some self-searching, you can find out what experiences brought you to this condition, and what underlying attitude caused these experiences. Then by embracing a different attitude (after understanding the reasons for it and its implications), the rest of your system is brought into balance.
By embracing full faith in bhakti, the energy thus accessed "trickles down" to other levels of existence (mental, physical). This is what Prabhupada means by defining faith as firm belief that through practicing bhakti-yoga, everything is attained. It is true.
Please do not believe this story about the beef. A devotee I know recently gave blood to a friend after the latter had a car accident, and the doctor commented his excellent blood. He's been vegetarian for around 15 years. Besides, meat is so toxic nowadays.
Better try some quality dietary supplements like Green Magma and Spirulina. A lot of people I know have benefited through their use.
By succumbing to this meat propaganda, you will hurt your soul. It does not fit with your chosen path in life. It seems like a test and a way to help you become more determined and discriminating.
Good luck
Audarya-lila Dasa - January 28, 2005 6:37 pm
The best thing to do is educate yourself. You should ask your acupuncturist what the essential ingredients in beef and lamb broth are that she feels are so essential for your blood. Don't believe everything you hear and don't think that just because someone is a health care provider that everything they say is backed by good science. My daughter's doctor is a good person but his opinions regarding nutrition that he has pushed off as authoritative to her based on his standing as a doctor are flat out wrong and go against a large body of conclusive scientific evidence. I mention that as a simple example to back up my point.
You should read some scientific journals outlining your condition and it's causes. Ask your physician where you can find more information.
You mentioned that the condition is caused by poor blood flow - that's different than there being something unhealthy about your blood. Get more information and learn all you can about the cause of your disease. It may be that there are some good yoga postures that will help improve the blood flow to your hip region. Exercise in general gets the heart beating faster and the blood flowing.
Although I agree with Narada-kunda dasi that we should chant with faith - I don't agree with the concept in general of 'faith healing'. Diseases of the body have direct physical causes and should be treated as such. Of course when your mind is peaceful and you live a stress free, healthy and balanced life your body will naturally function better.
At any rate, before you buy into the idea that you need to eat beef or drink beef broth for your health you need to educate yourself more. Find out if there is any actual scientific basis for this claim and what exactly it is that is helpful about beef for your condition. I'm sure you will find that if indeed there is a good scientific basis for such a claim there are also alternative sources for the important ingredients in beef that make it helpful for people with your condition.
Bhrigu - January 28, 2005 6:40 pm
I also think that you should ask for other opinions. I have a hard time believing that only beef would work. Still, if that actually is the truth, perhaps you should take it. Sanatana Goswami mentions in his commentary to the Hari-bhakti-vilasa that it is forbidden to eat meat on Ekadasi, even in the form of medicine, so apparently vegetarians were allowed to use meat products if prescribed as medicine on other days. On the other hand, we hear that Prabhupada as a child would not eat chicken broth, even though his mother tried to force him on their doctor's orders.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - January 28, 2005 10:33 pm
Please ask second opinion! Your general practitioner should send you to hematologist.
Robertnewman - January 29, 2005 3:12 am
Audarya-lila has a good point, but it's also true that scientific knowledge is incomplete. If nothing else helps, I suspect you'll have to make a hard choice: is your health worth more than the lives of the cows and/or lambs that would have to die to supply your body with what it needs? If you decide that it is, then I think you should make the experiment and see if eating red meat really makes a significant difference. I for one would not condemn you under such circumstances, and I don't think anyone steeped in the real spirit of Vaishnavism would either. Vegetarianism is important to transcendentalists (and compassionate people in general), but I don't think it's actually at the core of bhakti.
Vamsidhari Dasa - January 29, 2005 9:51 am
Dear Prabhu,
I am sorry to hear about your condition but that lady's suggestion horrifies me because it has no scientific base. There are many medications you can take made out of human blood to do this and you should deffinitelly seek different MEDICAL advice. I do not have time to get into detail and I just stumbled on your post during a sleepless night so forgive me. But please what ever you do do not go on a beef diet with no real reason. Hope this helps. Good luck to you.
Vamsidhari dasa
Swami - January 30, 2005 2:52 pm
A Godbrother of mine, Pust Krsna dasa, is a bone surgen or something like that. He lives in Santa Cruz California. I will try to get in touch with him and ask his advice. What exactly is your disease called? Brhama, do you know how to reach him? He is serviing with Govinda Maharaja at this time.
Jagannatha - January 31, 2005 12:21 am
My condition is called avascular necrosis (or osteonecrosis). Thanks for any info that can be provided. I'm going to schedule an appointment with a hematologist as well. Thanks for everyone's help!
Bhakta Ivar - April 26, 2005 11:11 am
Just an example:
Solgar VM-2000, take two tablets a day, as well as:
Solgar Gentle Iron, one tablet a day.
That strengthens the blood much more effectively than red meat or whatever some may recommend.
There are other brands that have great supplements. Make sure the iron is in the form of Iron bisglycinate.
Use Ginkgo, Hawthorn, Bromelain etc. to improve blood circulation.
Ivar
Bhakta Ivar - April 26, 2005 11:16 am
As far as vegetarianism and blood disease is concerned, there are many vegetarian food supplements. Yes, vegetarian people, especially children, risk not getting all nutrients for strong blood, specifically iron. But there are many supplements that provide such nutrients. Especially those on the spiritual path must make sure their nervous system is properly nourished throughout life.
Ivar
Bhakta Ivar - April 26, 2005 11:19 am
Green Magma and Spirulina are great! But they contain very little iron. They are not the first choice. Also Chinese medicines, like Don Quai, may be helpful, but they cannot replace direct iron supplementation. It's iron that brings up the meat issue. Besides being a good source of iron (hem), meat is useless.
Ivar
Ksiro - April 26, 2005 11:46 pm
A Godbrother of mine, Pust Krsna dasa, is a bone surgen or something like that. He lives in Santa Cruz California. I will try to get in touch with him and ask his advice. What exactly is your disease called? Brhama, do you know how to reach him? He is serviing with Govinda Maharaja at this time.
I was able to get Pusta Krsna's office # from Sruta das in Santa Cruz.
It is: Pusta Krishna das, Dr. Paul H. Dossick (408) 866-5000
Hope this helps.
Dandavats,
Ksirodakasayi Vishnu d.d.
Bijaya Kumara Das - May 1, 2005 6:59 am
The body is made of mucus, bile and air.
If you have poor circulation it is usually form a build up of mucus.
Pran or breathing exercises and limits on dairy and other mucus forming foods would help.
Dr Arnolsdd Ehert has a great diet for healing. It is basicly a green diet with nuts seeds and grains and lots of juicing of whole vegetables. Beets, parsnips and turnips etcetra. You should avoid rice for it is heat forming.
Your servant,
Bijaya Kumara das
B.S. Home Economics Nutrition and Dietetics.