Tattva-viveka
Nistha/Sastra Yukti/Tattva-viveka
Swami - March 10, 2005 9:12 pm
I split this off into a thread of its own: discussion of nistha/sastra-yukti-/tattva-viveka
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Intellect is one of the seats of lust. The study of sastra can effectiviely unseat this lust. The result of this is that the lust seated in the mind and senses will no longer have the support of reasoning and thus have less control over ourselves. When we reason to jusitify the insanity of inappropriate sense indulgence, we fortify ourselves in ignorance. When we exercise our reason to understand what we are involved in as sadhakas, this informs and thus fortifies our practice.
This particular exercise amounts to more than mere memorization of terms. It seeks to familiarize us with the concept of bhava, which is the goal of sadhana-bhakti. Take the trouble to learn about bhava in theory and there will be a greater likelyhood that you will one day attain it. After all, one does need to be interested in the ideal in order to practice. Weak practice can often be tied to unwillingness to take the trouble to learn what one is involved in. According to the Bhagavata, nistha or steady practice is practice that is well informed by sastra. Therefore it tells is nasta prayesu abhadresu nityam bhagavata sevaya. Now, who will take the time to look this citation up and better understand what I am writing? Whoever they are and however few, may Sri Krsna bless them with nistha.
Time to boil the milk, lest we be ruled by the tyranny of the weak.
Radhanama Dasa - March 11, 2005 2:11 am
Guru Maharaja-
I find this verse both tells us what we ned to do, ie: attend classes on the Bhāgavatam and render service to the pure devotee and then presents us with the result, ie: all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service to Krsna, is established as an irrevocable fact.
This seems to me to be similar to Siksatakam. How Caitanya Mahaprabhu tells us he has no Attraction to the Holy name, then how to gain that attraction via humble prayer, submission, not having attraction to material things and so forth, then ultimately telling what the result will be, Loving devotion to Krsna and the descriptions of that.
Maybe i am incorrect to compair the two as i still have a limited understanding of sastra, but that is what i was thinking when i read the verse. Please correct me if im wrong.
Brighu- Thanks for the quiz im also going to do it over the weekend.
Citta Hari Dasa - March 11, 2005 3:41 am
Here's my take on it:
Chris is right that we are to "attend classes on the Bhagavatam," but the verse also tells us how we are to hear the Bhagavata: nityam. Srila Prabhupada has rendered nityam as 'regularly' in this context. Regularly applying one's intelligence to sastra-yukti destroys the abhadra, the inauspicious things that have invaded the heart. The intelligence thus purified then finds ways to keep us engaged in bhakti (nistha) instead of finding good reasoning to justify our sensual indulgence.
Radhanama Dasa - March 11, 2005 5:25 am
OOPS! sorry i copy and pasted those parts into my response after i read the verse and of course in true me fashion left off a very important part. 
NrsinghaDas - March 11, 2005 2:57 pm
What came to my mind was that with the development of sambandha-jnana the inauspiciousness, or the idea that reality has multifarious purposes, is removed. The devotee Bhagavata is a living representitive of sambandha-jnana and the book is also representing that same reality, that "everything is for the pleasure of One". So to realize what we are involved in as sadhakas and also just as a jiva, that we are constitutionly part of an Organizm that flows towords a single point and purpose, is Bhagavata sevaya. Although this vision is it self seva, it developes when there is continious hearing (also implying that there is cooperation) with the devotee Bhagavata and the book. This centalized conception of reality is necessary to live in the world of Bhagavatam constantly (nityam) and thus be nishta.
Iam applogize if this interpritation is not fully proper.
Citta Hari Dasa - March 11, 2005 7:10 pm
with the development of sambandha-jnana the inauspiciousness, or the idea that reality has multifarious purposes, is removed.
Right. The beginning of inauspiciousness in our lives is, to use Sridhara Maharaja's terms, separate interest. Thinking that we have something to do other than please our guru (the person Bhagavata) distracts us from hearing and considering deeply the message of the book Bhagavata. Without theoretical knowledge and the consideration of its implications (mananam) followed up by practical application in our daily life of the insights gained from this exercise, lust remains in the heart. We will be ruled by the lower gunas until we surrender to hearing from and serving both Bhagavatas on a regular basis--daily if possible. Guru Maharaja has explained many times that we should structure our lives so that we can do so. If the attainment of nistha is our priority above all else then we will find the time without a doubt. It all depends on how much we want to be free of the negatives of lust and desire and to experience the positive fullness of self-satisfaction (SP's translation of brahma-bhuta, or atmananda).
Ironically, though, while under the influence of the lower modes (tamas and rajas) we don't see them for the enemies to our spiritual life that they are. Instead we think they are friends, and happily go about our business of pursuing our separate interest (ignorance is bliss!). Srila Prabhupada comments that "The soul's activity becomes adulterated in contact with matter, and as such the diseased activities are expressed in the form of lust, desire, hankering, foolishness, and sleep." (SB 1.2.19 purport)
In this sorry state, if we read at all we would rather read about lila and avoid the hard work of thinking about dense philosophical concepts. Guru Maharaja has also pointed out many times that this is only cheating ourselves, for it is this very thing that we need to uproot the lust that has invaded the strategic positions of our senses, mind, and intelligence. This is of course why so much stress is placed on hearing the philosophy, and why Guru Maharaja has spent thousands of hours writing books of philosophy.
Bhrigu - March 11, 2005 7:21 pm
One mini-realisation of nitya-bhagavata-seva in its literal meaning, to always hear the Srimad Bhagavatam. I had neglected this for a long time, reading other, "higher" Gaudiya books or just mundane books instead. When Guru Maharaja visited Finland last Easter, he inspired me (without saying so directly) to again start reading the Bhagavatam. To tell the truth, I haven't always kept up my original idea of reading at least one chapter daily, but when I have, I have noticed a clear difference in my consciousness. Guru Maharaja has said that Pariksit heard the Bhagavatam during seven days because that is what we should do: Monday, Tuesday... Sunday. Perhaps I should take a vrata to read at least one verse every single day to make sure that I don't slip from my reading again.
Shyam Gopal Das - March 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Guru Maharaj, in this sanga you write:
"Unfortunately, our hearts are preoccupied with so many desires, and thus unless we pay very close attention (nityam bhagavata sevaya) they will not be cleansed of material desire (nasta prayesu abhadresu), and we will not hear what the Bhagavatas are actually saying."
We should hear regularly and attentively. This will bring about nistha as much as it the result of nistha. Nistha means to be fixed and when we are fixed we will listen attentively, because our minds will almost only gravitate towards trancendental topics. This results in more nistha, because using our intellect in understanding the scriptures and doing this regularly, will cleanse our material desires even more. they are cleansed, because we understand the consequences of otherwise pursuing our material desires.
Nistha is, thus, not a condition that is attained at once and where one is completely free from material desires. As Srila Sridhar Maharaj writes: "That means it happens gradually. The gradual development is described there. Nasta prayesu means when the stage of nistha comes, when all the undesirabilities are almost finished, then we can have a real peep into the thing." (SEOC)
Thus, the more we hear, the more nistha we will develop and the more we will progress and understand the Bhagavatas (scripture and saint) with feeling. And the more we understand the Bhagavatas, the more we will desire to progress. That's why it is said "nistha or steady practice is practice that is well informed by sastra"
Guru-nistha Das - March 11, 2005 9:21 pm
One word that struck me in the verse was irrevocable: "...and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact."
So this indicates that the stage of nistha is one where you are basically done with material life. You KNOW that it's in your highest interest to pursue spiritual practice, it's not only theoretical anymore. It's the doorway between doubt and faith.
Another point that I thought about is that it's not enough that we just attend the bhagavatam classes and serve the person bhagavata without really using our intelligence and trying to see what it really means and making a substantial effort in the direction that the bhagavatas direct us. It's not mechanical. Like many people in ISKCON say that by just chanting 16 rounds and following the four regs you'll go back to Godhead, in a same way one could take this verse as a mechanical formula.
Citta Hari Dasa - March 12, 2005 3:29 am
It's definitely not mechanical. If it were, then we would find that the devotees who just followed the formula outwardly would be coming to the stage of nistha. But we don't find that, rather, it's painfully clear that a person can hear and chant for many years and go basically nowhere. This brings us back to the point of the two Bhagavatas: the book Bhagavata alone is not enough. We really need a person Bhagavata to push us and test our understanding of what we're involved in, otherwise we can go along reading superficially and think we're making progress when in fact we are totally stalled in the water.
Shyam Gopal Das - March 12, 2005 8:12 am
It comes down to what I meant to say: you can only be fixed as far as you understand what you are fixed on.
Bhrigu - March 12, 2005 12:25 pm
This brings us back to the point of the two Bhagavatas: the book Bhagavata alone is not enough. We really need a person Bhagavata to push us and test our understanding of what we're involved in, otherwise we can go along reading superficially and think we're making progress when in fact we are totally stalled in the water.
Well said. In my opinion, there are few more distasteful things than scriptural literalism, whatever the context. "Let's get back to the Bible/ Qu'ran/ Prabhupada!" Only following "the book" is one-eyed; either it leads to a stagnant fundamentalism or then to a watered-down relativism, where one's mind decides on an ad-hoc basis what of the book is relevant and what isn't. Having two Bhagavatas to follow makes for a much more safe and progressive spirituality.
Swami - March 12, 2005 3:18 pm
Something nice about the two bhagavatas from CC 1.1.98-100
dui bhai hrdayera ksali andhakara
dui bhagavata-sange karana saksatkara
eka bhagavata bada—bhagavata-sastra
ara bhagavata—bhaka bhakti-rasa-patra
dui bhagavata dvara diya bhakti-rasa
tanhara hrdaye tanra preme haya vasa
“These two brothers (Gaura Nitai) purify one’s heart by bringing them into the association of two Bhagavatas. One Bhagavata is the great scripture, and the other is the the rasika bhakta. Through the influence of these these two Bhagavatas they inspire bhakti rasa in their devotee’s heart, and thus the Lord becomes a captive of love.”
Guru-nistha Das - March 13, 2005 1:15 am
I was just listening to Guru Maharaja's lectureCD while desperately trying to capture Mohan and getting him to take a little afternoon walk with me, and coincidentally the lecture was about nistha and the SB verse we have been discussing about. GM made a nice point:
"Our goal is jnana-sunya-bhakti, devotion unencumbered by scriptural knowledge, but to arrive at that so much knowledge we have to gather."
He also made a point that we have to use our intelligence in finding the limit of our intelligence and when we are on the limit, we understand that only faith can take us the distance.
So in a way we need to rise to the stage of nistha (the mode of goodness) to have real faith. It's interesting, because normally people think that we need faith if we don't know, and we can know by our intellect, but the spiritual process seems to be reverse!
Am I speculating here? I'm just so excited about the subject that I probably talk way over my capacity and understanding
Babhru Das - March 13, 2005 7:51 am
This is a very disturbing thread. By that, I mean that carefully considering all the implications of what Maharaja suggests may disturb our complacency, our sense of comfort with our conditioned situation.
I understand that the value of the exercise goes far beyond memorizing a catalog of terms, beyond any mechanical process. The Bhagavatam verse tells us, as has been suggested by other devotees, several things. It recommends an essential devotional practice: nityam bhagavat-seva. Nityam can mean regular, as in daily. So regularly engaging in bhagavata-seva is the practice prescribed. With regard to the bhagavata-shastra-seva, we should make daily hearing of Srimad-Bhagavatam, or any topics regarding Krishna and his service, a daily affair. (Mahaprabhu recommends bhagavata-shravan as one of the five essential practices.) We may also understand that regularly broadcasting, or sharing, the message of Bhagavatam as a service to the Bhagavatam, and to Bhagavan himself. And, of course, we may make service to the advanced bhaktas part of our daily lives. Maharaja has often explained that this particularly pleases Krishna because, although he desires to serve the devotees himself, they would never accept his service. So by serving them in his stead, we endear ourselves to Krishna.
One result of making such activities part of our daily lives is that whatever is ultimately inauspicious is practically uprooted from our hearts. Again, this is not at all mechanical, but it is natural and organic. At the end of Chaitanya-charitamrita’s first chapter, where we find the verses Maharaja cites, Krishna das explains that, by introducing the devotees to the two bhagavatas, Sriman Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu illuminate their hearts, driving away the darkness. Citing Mahabharata, Srila Prabhupada explains the five kinds of ignorance, or darkness, the dispel: “(1) accepting the body to be the self, (2) making material sense gratification one's standard of enjoyment, (3) being anxious due to material identification, (4) lamenting and (5) thinking that there is anything beyond the Absolute Truth.” This in turn leads to another result: that regular (nityam activity becomes incessant (really nityam!). Consequently, this may be very dangerous for those of us with material attachments.
So Bhagavata-seva dispels such ignorance and establishes—irrevocably—loving service to Bhagavan in our hearts. It gradually roots out attachment to pursuing illusory aspirations and fosters an aspiration for those things discussed in the Bhagavatam and taught by the bhagavata. It also forms the subtle body (the desire body) by influencing the mind, bathing the heart, naturally preparing us for a life in devotional service to Krishna. Another way to illuminate this was suggested by something I read the other day in Gopala-tapani Upanishad, which I’ll share here.
Purva-tapani 43, commentary[W]hile knowledge expresses itself as detachment, love is about attachment. Is love, then, necessarily material and only knowledge the domain of the spirit? If this were so, the domain of the spirit would hardly be a home, but more like a peaceful state of hovering in suspended animation.
However, if we look more closely at knowledge, we will see that love is concealed within it. Refraining from lustful exploitation of our partner is also an expression of love, even though all the overt signs of loving affection may be absent. Similarly, the seed of love is concealed within the transcendental knowledge that arises from a life of insightful detachment and spiritual practice. It will manifest in the pure hearts of the truly wise when they interact with the world in knowledge of its proprietor. Such healthy interaction finds all material manifestations venerable in relation to their source. All problems are transformed into opportunities for service, which is the basis of true love. The ongoing cultivation of this love of God in the company of advanced devotees involves seeing everything in relation to him and results in meeting him on intimate terms. This result is played out in perfection within the drama of Krishna lila, where forms and relationships are all expression of the will of Krishna—his delight manifesting through his svarupa-shakt.
Thus Goloka, Krishna’s abode, is beyond time and space. Although Krishna himself resides there forever fixed, never stepping foot outside, he is at the same time moving faster than the mind and thus is never to be apprehended by any mental or intellectual exercise. Stop the mind and allow the soul to live its own life—the life that Krishna alone knows is best for you in his service. That which is known to him, he well reveal to you and it will manifest in your heart purified through spiritual culture as is it were your own desire to associate with him on intimate terms as a member of the cowherd community. Such enlightened life is transcendental bewilderment in which the godhood of Krishna is suppressed by the bond of intimate love. When in such bewilderment (yogamaya) Nanda asked Krishna about the cowherds’ next life, he showed them, to their delight, that it does not get any better than this—life in Krishna lila.
Anyway, I'm sort of thinking "out loud" here, using writing, as I have taught so many students over the years, to figure things out. All these things sort of came together and caused a little heartquake earlier this evening, and I wanted to make sure I didn't lose it completely. Of course, this also means I have to make time to take the test, to actually engage in the exercise we're discussing here. (I see further danger ahead, Will Robinson!)
Swami - March 13, 2005 3:45 pm
Guru Maharaja-
I find this verse both tells us what we ned to do, ie: attend classes on the Bhāgavatam and render service to the pure devotee and then presents us with the result, ie: all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service to Krsna, is established as an irrevocable fact.
This seems to me to be similar to Siksatakam. How Caitanya Mahaprabhu tells us he has no Attraction to the Holy name, then how to gain that attraction via humble prayer, submission, not having attraction to material things and so forth, then ultimately telling what the result will be, Loving devotion to Krsna and the descriptions of that.
Maybe i am incorrect to compair the two as i still have a limited understanding of sastra, but that is what i was thinking when i read the verse. Please correct me if im wrong.
Brighu- Thanks for the quiz im also going to do it over the weekend.
Chris,
Good to have you in the discussion. This Bhagavata verse and the nistha is speaks of are discussed by Mahaprabhu in his third verse of Siksastakam. This is by far the most well known and often cited verse of Sisksatakam. It is cited three times in Cc alone and it is the essence of Mahaprabhu's instructions to Raghunatha dasa Goswami. Kaviraja Goswami also says this about it:
"Hands raised, I declare, ‘Listen all!
String this stanza on the thread of nama
as a garland ‘round your neck.’
On Mahaprabhu’s order, do as this sloka says,
then Sri Krsna’ feet surely you will get."
In nistha bhajana kriya the finite soul approaches the door of the infinite. Above the door a sign reads “kirtaniya sada hari,” and the doormat to this threshold says “sunicena.”
Sri Visvanatha Cakravati Thakura writes of two kinds of nistha: saksat-bhakti-vartini, nistha that is directly related to bhakti, and tad-anukula-vastu-vartini, nistha that is related to that which is favorable to bhakti. Mahaprabhu's verse includes both of these. The words kirtaniya sada hari indicate steadiness in hearing and chanting, and because these two are directly bhakti, kirtaniya sada hari refers to saksat-bhakti-vartini nistha. The balance of the verse refers to tad-anukula-vastu-vartini nistha because it refers to that which is favorable to bhakti but is not bhakti in and of itself, qualities such as tolerance and so forth. The poetry of Srimad Bhagavatam under discussion has made it clear that when we see both of these in a sadhaka, his or her nistha is mature, thus Sri Krsna Caitanya has included both of them in his stanza.
.......
Babhru,
Good points. There is a famous German Christian theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who stood up against the Nazis and much of the Curch that supported Hitler. The center of his idea of Christianity was that Christ's Sermon on the Mount was not something that one should read to realize how fallen one was, but rather to see it as a call to rise up and be by the grace of God all that he expected one to be, to be a disciple and follow the discipline. His take disturbed many people, but it gave him the power to resist, face death fearlessly, and to do something worth remebering.
Swami - March 15, 2005 4:13 pm
It is more than interesting that Mahaprabhu has equated nistha with humility, not knowledge. Theoretical knowledge often engenders pride, but wisdom manifests as humility. One should study the Bhagavata carefully. It gives a thorough bashing to the intellect, culminating at is does in the undeducated gopi's unalloyed love for Vraja's cowherd prince.
Nistha is not about memorizing slokas or philosophical points so that one can think oneself better than others. We should learn the sastra to understand the limits of intellect, clearing our path to service without reservation. Thus the Bhagavata says nistha comes about by regualrly hearing the scripture and or serving the person who presonifies its teaching. Now, serving such a person in the real sense of the term is far more demanding than collecting verses and points of philosophy. Thus it should be clear that if regularly hearing the Bhagavata book and serving the Bhagavata devotee result in the same thing that "hearing the book" involves much more than an intellectual exercise. Much has been said here.
Audarya-lila Dasa - March 15, 2005 11:58 pm
I wasn't sure where to put this post since the content straddles this thread and the 'diksha' thread in the controversial section.
I have been reading lately from Sri Bhagavatarka Marici-mala (a garland of rays from the sunlike Srimad Bhagavatam) and by coincidence I happen to be reading the sixteenth ray entitled 'The gradual development of Love of God'. I am going to copy some of the text here because it contains the verse that Guru Maharaja cited from the Srimad Bhagavatam - nasta prayesu.... and the translation is quite nice. It also includes the verses directly before and after this verse and overall is a very good summary of the topic at hand. Here goes:(english ony for brevities sake)
I offer my respectful obeisances at the lotus feet of Sri Raghunatha Dasa Goswami Prabhu, who in the course of his life displayed the gradual process of awakening love of God.
S.B. 3.25.25
By associating with saintly persons, topics about My transcendental glories are discussed. This purifies and delights the heart and the ears. By hearing these topics, one first develops faith in Krsna, who is the giver of liberation. The more one's anarthas are destroyed by faithfully worshiping the Lord, the more his faith progressively advances to the platform of nistha, ruci, asakti, and rati. Another name of rati is bhava. The matured stage of rati is called prema-bhakti.
The supremacy of the platform of bhava (S.B. 1.5.39)
O Vyasa, after seeing that I was following His instructions, the Supreme Lord became very pleased. He then showed me His own spiritual opulences and awarded me love of God.
The platform of bhava can be attained by sadhana (S.B. 1.2.14-18)
One should, without deviation, eternally hear about, glorify, meditate on, and worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
What fortunate person will not become attached to the topics of that Lord, by the weapon of whose remembrance learned scholars destroy the knots of reactionary work?
The word susrusa means the desire to hear the topics of Hari. If out of good fortune one developes this desire, one can awaken his faith. Faith cannot be developed without piety. And this piety is to simply engage in the service of saintly persons. Due to this piety one develops faith in the topic of Hari. By traveling to the holy places one recieves the opportunity to associate with saintly people. Faith in the topics of Hari is developed by the service to the great souls. Either previously or recently acquired piety is the cause of one's faith.
Lord Krsna, who is the goal of auspicious hearing and chanting, enters within the heart of a person who has already developed faith by the process of hearing and chanting. Sitting within the heart, Lord Hari, who is affectionate to His devotees, gradually destroys all contamination from the heart of his devotee. There are many types of contamination. The primary cause of the living entities conditional life is the offense born from forgetfulness of Krsna. When one is materially contaminated, he forgets his constitutional position and he accepts the wheel the karma. As a result, he faces lust, anger, pride, greed, illusion, and envy. This results in his committing pious and sinful activities, which in turn award one heavenly pleasures or hellish sufferings. The living entities suffer various miseries in this material existence. Sense gratification born of ignorance is the cause of all distress. To control their material desires the jnanis practice the process of yoga. But this path is not very good. The path of devotional service is most sublime. If one can fully depend on Krsna, then by His mercy all one's material contamination is destroyed and the heart becomes steady.
cont.... (next the nasta prayesu verse)
Audarya-lila Dasa - March 16, 2005 12:35 am
The more one's material contamination is destroyed, the more his faith in topics of Krsna becomes fixed. This is called naisthiki-bhakti, or fixed devotional service. When one's material contamination in the heart is destroyed by constantly serving the devotees and hearing Srimad Bhagavatam, then one develops nistha in his devotional service to Krsna, who is praised by selected verses.
The gradual development of devotional service begins from sraddha, then sadhu-sanga, then bhajana, then anartha-nivrtti, the nistha, then ruci.
S.B. 1.5.25-28
O Vyasa, when I was engaged in the menial service of the saintly persons, once, by their order, I took remnants of their foodstuffs. As a result of this, all my sinful reactions were vanquished and I became purified. Then I developed a taste in their pure bhagavata-dharma. This is an example of nistha.
By the mercy of those great souls who constantly glorified the topics of Krsna I began to daily hear the most pleasing topics of the Supreme Lord. As a result of always hearing such topics faithfully I developed attachment for Krsna. The word attachment here refers to ruci.
O great soul, thereafter my mind became fixed on Krsna. The word mati means asakti, or deep attachment. Due to this asakti I realized that the Supreme Lord is the source of all spiritual manifestations. The Supreme Brahman is fully cognizant, and the living entities are minutely congnizant. When I realized this, I became situated in my original constitutional position. When the misconception that 'I am this body' was removed, then the duality born from the clash between matter and spirit was vanquished. Then I realized that the Supreme Lord and the living entities are qualitatively equal.
In this way I continuously heard the auspicious glories of Lord Hari from the mouths of those great sages during the four months of the Caturmasya, and all the contamination born from the modes of passion and ignorance was destroyed from my heart. This is called devotional service on the platform of bhava.
S.B. 1.2.19 (the development of bhava described)
At that time qualities like lust and anger, which are born from the modes of passion and ignorance, no longer pierced my heart. I became situated in the mode of pure goodness and felt joyful. The gradual process of devotional service is described as follows: All one's sinful reactions become destroyed by faithfully chanting and hearing the topics of Hari in the association of devotees. This results in the purification of the heart. The destruction of contamination that takes place before one attains the stage of firm faith is only parital. Although faithfully worshipping Hari one's sinful reactions are counteracted, the seed or the desire for committing sinful activities is not destroyed. By worshiping Hari with ruci, or taste, one's knowledge of his relationship with the Supreme Lord is awakened, his mind becomes fixed, and his desire for committing pious or sinful activities is destroyed. Yet nescience, which is the root of the desire for piety and impiety, is not destoyed. But if one worships Krsna with asakti, or attachment, then his nescience is destroyed and his constitutional position is awakended. This is called bhava-bhakti. Bhava-bhakti is situated in the platform of pure goodness. When one is situated in that platform, one's heart no longer becomes affected by nescience. If a person leaves his body after attaining self-realization, then by the will of Krsna he goes back to Godhead. In the realization of the Absolute truth, realization of Brahman is the first step. Realization of Paramatma is the second step. And realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the third step. In the realization of Brahman santa-rasa is prominant. In the realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhura-rasas are prominent. We have presented only a token of information about these rasas. In the science of the Absolute truth, the symptoms of the science of the transcendental mellows found in the catuh-sloki Bhagavatam are seen. Bhava or rati is the permanent bhava or rasa. When this is combined with vibhava, anubhava, sattvika, and vyabhicari-bhavas, it is known as prema-rasa. Anotehr name of this is the science of the Absolute truth. An elaborate explanation of this science is found in the tenth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam.
S.B. 1.2.20
With a desire to obtain these mellows of love of God, learned scholars cultivate devotional service to Lord Vasudeva and feel joyful in their hearts.
My notes:
This last verse very nicely summarizes the importance of understanding the science of rasa so we know what our goal is.
The reason I suggested that these two posts may belong in the 'controversial diksha thread' is that bhava bhakti is clearly defined and the symptoms of one who has attained such a state are also discussed. Note that one in bhava bhakti is beyond the modes of passion and ignorance and no longer comes under their influence. It's also clear that the guide should be an advanced practitioner and should be at least on the level of asakti. It is obvious that this isn't obtained simply by birth or even diksha by a qualified Guru - it requires determined and steady practice as well as mercy. (but as Guru Maharaja has pointed out on many occasions - mercy comes in the form of determined/steady practice)
Bijaya Kumara Das - April 2, 2005 6:36 am
nasta prayesu abhadresu nityam bhagavata sevaya.
Time to boil the milk, lest we be ruled by the tyranny of the weak.
SB 1 2 18
nañöa—destroyed; präyeñu—almost to nil; abhadreñu—all that is inauspicious; nityam—regularly; bhägavata—Çrémad-Bhägavatam, or the pure devotee; sevayä—by serving;
I think what you are trying to say is that we should not be to concerned with what or how others are progressing but as to how we are getting the message through proper service to pure devotee be it person bhagavat or book bhagavat.
One should be concerned first and foremost with the object (all that is inauspicous will be destroyed to nil) and how we do this is by the subject (by serving regularly the pure devotee).
Krsna is the object and we are the subject and by proper service to His devotee all inauspicious things will be destroyed.
As You have said many times "we worship the one whom Krsna worships" Rhada and by doing so we will be favored.
"These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhägavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhägavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. "
Bijaya Kumara Das - April 2, 2005 6:54 am
when they interact with the world in knowledge of its proprietor. Such healthy interaction finds all material manifestations venerable in relation to their source. All problems are transformed into opportunities for service, which is the basis of true love. The ongoing cultivation of this love of God in the company of advanced devotees involves seeing everything in relation to him and results in meeting him on intimate terms.
I think this is what Guru Maharaja was leading to.