Haribol!
I've been reading Maharaja's "Aestethic Vedanta" and wrote down a few questions I had. There was a point where he mentioned that the gopis reasoned that Krsna appeared to remove the suffering of the people of Vraja. Maharaja also mentioned in the book that Vraja indicates a pasturing ground; an unfixed location since cowherds moved for the sake of the cows. He concludes that Krsna's abode moves out of a reciprocal love between Krsna and His devotees. Does that mean that wherever the devotees are is to be considered Vraja as well? Also, how could the people of Vraja in this material world be suffering if Vraja, regardless of location, is purely spiritual?
Question #2:
"Service is not the prerogative of the servant, rather a gracious gift from above."
- So, when I have the desire to do some small service to Maharaja, my Deities, the devotees, etc., even that desire isn't of my own will?
Question #3:
If ultimately we are supposed to transcend dharma because religious duties pertain mostly to the body, and the principles of varnashrama aren't the "be all/end all"....where does Deity worship fit in to that? Does one ultimately abandon the need to serve the Deity which is non-different from Krsna?
Sorry these are all over the place.
Hope everyone is well,
YS,
Jason
P.S. the Finnish Gothic photo was great!
Does that mean that wherever the devotees are is to be considered Vraja as well?
mora-mana-vrndavana CC Madhya 13.137
Does that mean that wherever the devotees are is to be considered Vraja as well?
Yes. Guru Maharaja has said "Where is Krsna? In the heart of his devotees." And we know that Krsna never leaves Vrndavana, so then that means that wherever Krsna's devotees are, Vraja is there.
Also, how could the people of Vraja in this material world be suffering if Vraja, regardless of location, is purely spiritual?
They are not suffering like we suffer here in the realm of the gunas. The Vrajavasis suffer in separation from Krsna, who is their very life and soul.
So, when I have the desire to do some small service to Maharaja, my Deities, the devotees, etc., even that desire isn't of my own will?
The desire to serve is yours, but the service is granted from above. This means that if our 'service' is to be truly service, then it must be sanctioned from above. We may think a particular action is service but if it has not been asked for by a Vaisnava then it is not.
If ultimately we are supposed to transcend dharma because religious duties pertain mostly to the body, and the principles of varnashrama aren't the "be all/end all"....where does Deity worship fit in to that? Does one ultimately abandon the need to serve the Deity which is non-different from Krsna?
Deity worship is there for the sadhaka's purification of heart. Transcending varnasrama is inherent within the path of bhakti, but one has to have some bhakti for that to really happen! Advanced devotees do not need to worship the Deity, since they have realized the nondifference between the Deity, Krsna himself, and Harinama. If they do worship the Deity it is to set an example for the sadhakas.
So if there are some devotees who worship Lord Narayana, sincerely, then amidst those devotees, in their temples, etc., that is to be considered the spiritual world....but not Vraja? Does the mood of the devotee matter?
You said that if the service isn't asked for by a Vaisnava, we may think it's service, but it's actually not so. I thought that if someone has to ask you do do something, then it's not really service. Shouldn't service come spontaneously from the heart, the real desire to help someone without having to be asked?
Thanks.
Does the mood of the devotee matter?
Mood of the devotee is paramount. That’s why it is said that you will definitely reunite with your Guru in spiritual world. If you follow his instructions correctly then eventually you will get infused with his mood in his relation to Krsna, so your final destination will be the same. If our conciseness builds an environment for us (specific body to fulfill our specific desires) and Lord manifesting a specific form to reciprocate our specific realization and devotion, then it is conceivable that there are multiple spiritual worlds as well (such as Vaikuntha Loka for devotees of Lord Narayana), so it is essential to have a correct mood to get to the correct place. That’s why sadhu-sanga is so important.
They are not suffering like we suffer here in the realm of the gunas. The Vrajavasis suffer in separation from Krsna, who is their very life and soul.
I think he was referring to the inhabitants of bhauma Vrndavana.
You said that if the service isn't asked for by a Vaisnava, we may think it's service, but it's actually not so. I thought that if someone has to ask you do do something, then it's not really service. Shouldn't service come spontaneously from the heart, the real desire to help someone without having to be asked?
It's a little more complicated than that.
You said spontaneously from the heart. That works with a pure heart, the heart of a raganuga. In a neophyte state, one's heart is polluted with so many things; what's the value of spontaneous service out of one's heart if we are not in touch with our heart (self)? That's why we need instruction from a pure source.
If someone came to my birthday party with a bottle of champagne, he or she would think they're doing something nice, but I would just feel awkward, as much as I see their good intentions.
However, if a friend of mine told them what I like, they would show up with that, I'd be pleased, they'd be pleased... see what I mean?
The dharma of the soul is to serve, and dharma is what pleases Hari, and we know what this is at any given time from someone who is very close to Hari.
Syamasundara:
Thanks! I understand what you mean....but in regards to the suffering of the inhabitants of Vraja, what does "bhauma" mean?
earthly
Why is there the designation of "earthly" Vrindavan vs. Krsna's eternal abode if there is supposed to be no difference between the two? I've often heard that bhauma Vrindavana is non-different from the spiritual world?
a bit confused.
If advanced devotees don't necessarily have to worship the deity, nevertheless do so for setting an example, does that mean that when they engage in arcana, for them, it's merely external? Not that it's not an important "motion", but to the pure devotee, is it in fact just a motion of sorts?
I think Guru Maharaja has spoken about this on the Sanga previously - I could be mistaken and be confusing lectures with Sangas - at any rate - when Krsna descends to this world along with his abode it is an intersection between the eternal and the temporal. Maharaja has described it as something like 'shooting a film on location' as opposed to in the studio. There are differences between his earthly lila and the lila in Goloka. Krsna is not a baby in Goloka, for instance. So really the correct siddhanta is that Bhauma Vrndavana is different and non-different. It affords the inhabitants of earth a unique opportunity to have a 'window to eternity' and it gives Krsna and his parshadas an opportunity to enact pastimes that aren't possible in Goloka. For instance - in Goloka Maharaja has said there are only rumors of demons - but we all know about his pastimes in Bhauma Vrndavana with regard to various demons.
Regarding the pure devotee and archana - I think you have it backward - for most of us archana is ritual and external - for the pure devotee - he is seeing Krsna everywhere - his vision is not external. We need archana for our spiritual progress. Archana is really part of bhajana for the pure devotee - I think that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati mentions this in the introduction ot Bhajana Rahasya - I'll look tonight and see if I can find the appropriate quote.
Here's what Srila Sarasvati Thakura says:
For sadhakas whose faith is on the neophyte platform, the system of arcana is provided. Many people are unable to understand the disctinction between arcana and bhajana and therefore use the word bhajana to refer to arcana. One can practise bhajana by performing the nine kinds of devotion, navadha-bhakti. Because arcana is uncluded with navadha-bhakti, it is also considered a part of bhajana. Arcana means to worshipthe deity with awe and reverence; that is, wiht knowledge of the Lord's opulence and by observing etiquette. It is also arcana to serve Bhagavan with various paraphernalia according to rules and reulations and with the mundane conception of identifying oneself with the material body. In visrambha-seva, service rendered with intimacy and a sense of possessiveness, the hot rays of awe and reverence are still apparent to a small degree, but on one can refuse the excellent sweetness of its cool, pleasant moonbeams.