Tattva-viveka
pleasure vs. pain
Jason - July 3, 2005 2:24 am
Haribol!
I was wondering if anyone could explain about the difference between pleasure and pain from a spiritual perspective. I recently heard that "pleasure" was the release of the build up of the tension created by the mode of passion. How is "pain" defined?
Jason
Gauravani Dasa - July 3, 2005 4:26 pm
I have heard that the happiness (pleasure) in this material world is only the temporary mitigation of suffering (pain). So the hankering some one feels under the mode of passion would be temporarily mitigated by "fullfilling" that desire. But of course desires can never be fullfilled:
SB 9.19.13
"A person who is lusty cannot satisfy his mind even if he has enough of everything in this world, including rice, barley and other food grains, gold, animals and women. Nothing can satisfy him."
In Bg 3.36-43, Krishna gives Arjuna an explanation of lust and the need for sense control, rather than sense indulgence, in reducing the prescence of lust and uncontrolable desire.
Uncontrolled and unfulfilled desire is a source of suffering. As much as we identify with our senses, which are impossible to satisfy, to that extent we will experience material suffering.
Jason - July 4, 2005 6:57 pm
So then, denying your senses causes what constitues "pain". Srila Prabhupada stressed that our philosophy wasn't about denial per se, rather, we redirect our misplaced desires in relation to Krsna. Since Krsna reciprocates with the jiva accordingly, then in essence He never lets them down. This is the way to have proper desire and subsequently the proper satisfaction of that desire. Is this right? "pain" would be mitigated in this way?
Jason
Bhakta Ivar - July 5, 2005 12:42 pm
> I recently heard that "pleasure" was the release of the build up of the tension created by the mode of passion. How is "pain" defined?
There’s also tamo-guna, and even pleasure that is related to sattva-guna. There’s subtle pleasure, gross pleasure, it comes in so many forms.
Pleasure is that sensation which is pleasing to the nervous system, and pain is that sensation which is displeasing. The nervous system feels pleased when one feels safe, nourished and can reproduce. We feel happy when it’s not too cold or hot, because when it’s too cold or hot we may get sick or die. We feel happy when we can eat and drink, because that keeps us nourished. The more intense the sensation of eating and drinking the better. Thus we generally prefer food and drink which has an intense and pleasing smell and taste. Sex is pleasing because the body is a system which is designed for reproduction.
From a spiritual point of view pleasure and pain are really two sides of the same coin. They pertain to the physical system, and the mind which identifies with it. Pulling a tooth gives the same painful sensation to the nervous systems of a materialist as to the perfected soul. Similarly sex will give the same pleasurable sensation to their nervous systems. The only difference is that the materialist will think that he experiences pain or pleasure, while the perfected soul knows that his real self didn’t experience anything.
The body works in a certain way. Unless the body perceives something as pleasurable, it will not do its work properly. When the mouth doesn’t salivate, food cannot be swallowed or digested. When blood doesn’t flow through the genitals, there can be no reproduction. There are many examples like this. I have focused on the most important senses, namely the tongue and genitals.
The conclusion is you cannot avoid pleasure of the body. Denial is not possible, unless you want to commit suicide (by starvation). Because it’s the body that needs maintenance (food, drink), the pleasure arising from that maintenance cannot be considered a sin. It’s not even self-ish, because the body is not the real self. But agitating the senses beyond what is necessary shows one has not yet found a source of pleasure, a source of positive excitement, beyond the physical nervous system. This is where sense enjoyment starts having negative effects (for one’s physical health, environment and spiritual evolution).
In conclusion, avoiding pain and experiencing pleasure pertain to the body. They cannot be avoided, and neither of them are sinful , incur bad karma or increase bondage. It’s identification with the body that causes bondage, and it’s the purposeful avoidance of truth and spiritual progress which is sinful and incurs bad karma. “From the land of exploitation to the plane of dedication…”
Ivar
Gauravani Dasa - July 6, 2005 3:28 am
So then, denying your senses causes what constitues "pain". Srila Prabhupada stressed that our philosophy wasn't about denial per se, rather, we redirect our misplaced desires in relation to Krsna. Since Krsna reciprocates with the jiva accordingly, then in essence He never lets them down. This is the way to have proper desire and subsequently the proper satisfaction of that desire. Is this right? "pain" would be mitigated in this way?
The ultimate solution to any pain, present or future, is to leave behind the material world and enter the lila of Krishna. To do that is no small task at all and requires that we apply ourselves to our current level of advancement. Each person has a certain amount of "pain" that they are capable of tolerating in the context of bhakti without becoming frustrated. This requires some honesty and introspection on our part, to determine what is most favorable for us to make advancement. Often the help of our Guru is essential.
The point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't attempt to endure pain (renunciation) beyond our actual position. While practicing bhakti, denial or renunciation will come naturally as one makes genuine advancement. Dry renunciation is not recommend by Krishna in the Gita (3.6). In fact, what Krishna advocates in the early chapters of the Gita is acting without attachment to the fruits of your work (niskama-karma-yoga, aka bhakti-yoga).
Performing bhakti will purify us, giving us realization so our actual desires will be to render service to Krishna in his lila, rather than just dovetailing the material desires we are currently conditioned by.
I am certainly not an expert on this topic, but this is what I understand from Guru Maharaja's Gita commentary. I hope I addressed your questions properly 