Tattva-viveka
Food Choices
Jim Churchill - October 26, 2005 7:41 pm
First of all I'd like to say to everyone that I have done some searches here and tried to find answers to my questions regarding foods such as chocolate but am not "satisfied" with what I have found. Please forgive me, or better yet ignore this post, if it is too trite for this board.
Here in North Carolina I have been associating with devotees that have a fairly diverse range of viewpoints concerning topics such as initiation, ISKCON, dress, lifestyles, etc... but most of the devotees I know tell me that they don't eat chocolate because it has caffeine and because Srila Prabhupada advised against it.
I understood and appreciate very much Madan Gopal's post of last year stressing the idea of giving up addictive things, material things in general, but I guess I want to hear more about this subject.
Most devotees i talk to don't eat garlic, for reasons I do understand very clearly, but many suggest that they will eat certain foods such as garlic and shitake (sp?) mushrooms that have medicinal qualities that are more attractive alternatives to antibiotics and B12 supplements.
Here at the community college where I work the biochemists tell me that chocolate also has significant medicinal qualities and I was wondering what other devotees think about this aspect of food choices.
My wife, son and I don't eat anything that has not been offered and I have read here that there seems to be no mention in scriptures specifying that Krishna doesn't eat chocolate (or tofu for that matter-only bhakti 
) so does that mean it is offerable? Or is offering it understood as disobeying the"order" of the spiritual master (SP) and that's why many don't eat it - because they can't offer it.
Wow, for my first question on the board this is really long winded. I hope it is at least somewhat coherent; thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
Hare Krishna
Jim
Babhru Das - October 26, 2005 7:55 pm
Jim, I remembered this Sanga Q & A and found it in the archives at swami.org:
Q. Devotees are supposed to offer whatever they eat to Krsna beforehand. It's a nice principle to offer everything, but I wonder how the Deity feels about being offered foods not mentioned in scripture such as tofu burgers or chocolate. Does he just accept the sentiment of letting Krsna eat first?
A. This is an interesting question. I don't remember reading that Krsna does not eat chocolate or tofu. I can assure you that he has eaten them. How can I say this? Because scripture says that he accepts vegetarian food that is offered to him in love. Of course, one can argue that there is more bhakti in offering him things that one knows he likes to eat, things mentioned in sastra. While this may be helpful for bhajana at some point, we have the example of the most merciful Sanatana Goswami, who offered unleavened bread with no salt to his Deity Madana-Mohana because this was all he could come up with in terms of ingredients. Madana-Mohana did of course ask for salt at some point, but even without salt he relished Sanatana Prabhu's offerings because the offerings were made with love. One can still get that unsalted bread at Sanatana Goswami's bhajana kutira at the Madana-Mohana temple in Vrndavana, where devotees have been offering it to the Deity of Krsna for the last 500 years. The lesson is that if we lovingly offer food to Krsna that has been made from ingredients readily available, Krsna will eat.
In some places such as the Jagannatha temple in Puri, foods that were not growing in India when Sri Krsna was present are not offered, including green chilies. However, Pujyapada Sridhara Maharaja commented on this saying that this idea was more or less a physical conception. There are now many vegetables readily available in India that originally came from other parts of the world. These include eggplant, tomatoes, and potatoes, all of which came from the Americas. We see that Krsna adapted his eating habits to the many cultures that exist within India. In the South he seldom gets chapattis; in the North rice is rare; in Punjab he is offered corn rotis. Jagannatha means "Lord of the Universe" not just "Lord of India"; therefore, why wouldn't Jagannatha adapt his eating habits to other cultures? After all, bhakti is what he truly eats.
Many years ago when I first visited Italy the devotees there served me many wonderful pasta dishes. I commented that their offerings were delicious, but they replied that they only offer these dishes to visitors because they had been taught to only offer Indian cuisine to the Deity of Krsna. I suggested they reconsider, as I doubt their version of Indian cuisine was quite as palatable as their pasta.
Q. Didn't Srila Prabhupada write that devotees should not eat chocolate?
A. I found one letter in which Srila Prabhupada wrote that devotees should not eat chocolate because it was an intoxicant. However, in a letter written later by his secretary, who had asked him as to whether chocolate could be offered to the Deity, the response was "Yes, if it was not intoxicating." Thus the perennial debate among Srila Prabhupada's disciples about eating chocolate. Once in San Francisco, Srila Prabhupada noticed that one of his householder disciples was eating a chocolate bar, which she then tried to hide. Prabhupada asked, "You are not offering me any?" She smiled and offered it to him and he ate some. Afterwards word spread that devotees could eat chocolate, but later when the devotees became abusive, eating it in excess, Srila Prabhupada told them not to eat it. The main concern about chocolate is its intoxicating properties, but to be affected by that one would have to eat quite a lot. Other items such as sugar, ghee, certain spices, and honey are also potentially intoxicating and addictive substances. Among these honey has the added complication of being made by bees who use their long tube like tongues to suck the nectar out of flowers that they store in their special "honey stomachs." Gathering bees return to the hive and pass the nectar to worker bees that then chew the nectar until it becomes honey. But in spite of the fact that it passes through the mouths and stomachs of bees and has intoxicating qualities, honey is regularly offered to Krsna in Vaisnava temples. Indeed, the Bhagavatam says that Balarama drinks 'Varuni', an intoxicating beverage sometimes said to be made from honey.
Scripture tells us that Balarama and Krsna do take intoxicants, like pan, honey, and other such items. Most Gaudiya Vaisnavas do not use pan, but pan is offered to Krsna in many Vaisnava temples. As for eating chocolate, do not eat it in excess and it will not hurt your bhakti, but if you are addicted to it, that is a problem. In general I believe it is best to avoid it altogether other than perhaps in the form of hot chocolate made with milk and whipped cream, which is delicious. While speaking of mixed devotion, Bhagavad-gita says that whatever you eat should be offered to Krsna. One has to start somewhere. Start with the spirit of offering and everything else will follow in due course.
We offer fudge and other chocolate confections to our Deities. I've heard about some devotees in Los Angeles whose Deities apparently became so fond of chocolate that when the devotees stopped offering it for a while for some reason, other devotees showed up inexplicably at their door with chocolate for their Deities. And I believe that Satyadeva, who comes here sometimes, told me years ago that Srila Prabhupada personally asked him to make chocolate sandesh for him.
Jim Churchill - October 28, 2005 12:56 pm
Thank you for replying so quickly. It definitely has helped me. I have now realized that I ask certain questions over and over agian to different people until I get the answer that I want (what I want to hear). Chocolate seems to be the tip of the iceberg here and I'm afraid people's decisions as to what is "ok" or "not ok" still seem to be somewhat arbitrary to me and perhaps I'm starting to understand why. I think this is because I am just so far from truly being able to surrender; I'm focusing on too many details and not seeing the big picture. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that, because I'm so out-of- it, I'm trying to be a part of a herd and want/need (?) to be told definitively what to do and what not to do. Scary...
Anyway. thanks again for passing this info on; next time I'll do better at scouring the Sanga before asking a question. I've been reading a lot of your posts and learning quite a bit - Gracias por todo.
Jim
Babhru Das - October 28, 2005 7:36 pm
De nada, Jim. I remembered this partly because of my own appreciation for chocolate, and because I remembred someone else commenting somewhere about Maharaja's assertion that hot chocolate is delicious.
Syamasundara - October 28, 2005 11:26 pm
Actually it's cocoa that has vitamin H and other good-for-you chemicals, what's bad news is chocolate, or in other words, fats (cocoa butter) and sugar.
Last week I ventured to eat chocolate with 99% cocoa and believe me, it felt pretty medicinal.
Other than that, enhorabuena for the self-analysis Jim!
Bhakta Ivar - October 29, 2005 10:50 am
Perhaps we should once and for all scientifically ascertain whether chocolate is harmful to bhakti. Let two groups of devotees consume 5 bars a day for two weeks. One groups gets real chocolate, the other a placebo. Then see how many devotees from the real chocolate group blooped or abandoned parts of their sadhana.
I firmly believe that alcohol is the only substance that can really disturb one's spiritual life. Coffee, tea and chocolate cannot, neither short term nor long term. "Intoxicated" mainly means drunk: out of control. None of the above substances make one out of control. One can drive a car without any problems. That even applies to some extent to most of the psychedelic substances used in other Indian religions such as soma (psylocibine) and ganja (cannabis). It's clear that ancient Vedic priests took psychoactive substances (during regulated rituals), and wrote about their experiences in scripture. But better to obtain knowledge and bliss directly through study, prayer, meditation and devotion.
Ivar
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - October 29, 2005 3:59 pm
One can drive a car without any problems.
One can drive car with agitated mind. Intoxication is not about falling on the floor, it’s about losing concentration, control over your mind. But ultimately it’s all about your attachments and things you are willing to sacrifice.
Shyam Gopal Das - October 29, 2005 4:12 pm
the only way one can ascertain bhakti scientifically is by asking a sadhu
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - October 30, 2005 6:02 pm
OK, I will tell you a little story. Last time I was in Audarya the weather was brutal, scorching sun, no wind, and temperature 95+, so Citta Hari went down to Philo and got some ice cream. He got vanilla with chocolate (!) chunks. I was trained not to eat chocolate, so I was puzzled and decided to see what others will do; thankfully Guru Maharaja and Vrindaranya were served first. They starded eating and I've followed their lead. Interesting thing happened later. After Guru Maharaja had finished his snack, Vrindaranya started distributing what he left in his bowl, you know what was it? 
He left all chocolate chunks! So I will leave you with this -- he doesn’t eat chocolate or just left best for his disciples?
Shyam Gopal Das - October 30, 2005 7:45 pm
haha that's the way of the sadhu
Swami - November 4, 2005 5:12 pm
I am quickly coming to the conclusion that, because I'm so out-of- it, I'm trying to be a part of a herd and want/need (?) to be told definitively what to do and what not to do. Scary...
Yes Jim, that is a lot more scary and potentially damaging to your pursuit of bhakti than chocholate. Following is important, but spiritual life is ultimately not about someone else thinking for you. Think about it.
Jim Churchill - November 4, 2005 7:29 pm
Thank for your reply; I am honored that you have taken the time to share this with me. I am thinking about things very carefully and will continue to do so; that is really why I am here and why I listen so much to your lectures on cd. Thank you again for your thoughts.
Bijaya Kumara Das - November 24, 2005 6:38 am
I remembred someone else commenting somewhere about Maharaja's assertion that hot chocolate is delicious.
And yes Jim we keep a private stash of hot chocolate for when Guru Maharaja comes here.
We are very fond of ovaltine but you must check it out because they usually put Vitamin D3 in all but one of many various choices.
Vitimin D2 is okay for it is usually made from brewers yeast D3 is always from an animal source.
But what can you do when they polute all the foods with something, us less you are doing as the Audarya devotees are and mostly producing what they need for themselves.