Tattva-viveka
North Carolina Visit
Gauravani Dasa - December 1, 2005 3:38 am
Here is an update on my experiences traveling with Guru Maharaja:
Tuesday Morning, Ratna Cintamani drove Guru Maharaja and I to the San Francisco airport. On the way through town I noted the particularly drab condition of the city. It became apparent that people are wondering around with such a limited notion of who they are, attempting to find happiness and beauty based on bodily conception. I thought of my good fortune to be with Guru Maharaja in Audarya, and some sadness that there are so many people who are looking for meaning in all the wrong places. I caught a glimpse of the value of association with the sadhus and the hope they bring to those they come in contact with.
The flight went well but felt longer than I expected. I began to read Aesthetic Vedanta and was able to really appreciate the beauty of Krsna lila, especially when compared to this world. Krsna is obviously rasa-raja and there is nothing, real or imagined, that can compare to the descriptions of his lila.
Guru Maharaja and I discussed some ideas for the temple and use of the land in Audarya. He proposed a dormitory-style building for monastic residence and publishing offices. I told him that I liked having to walk up and down the hills as exercise. He then made the point that one day, the monks will get old, and those hills might not be so exciting.
We also discussed the fact that many devotees, although they see the importance and purity of Guru Maharaja along with the need for others to hear from him, fail to stand up and actively support GM. I tried to think of reasons why someone would verbally express support for GM yet neglect to follow through with action. GM asked “If someone has some realization, why aren't they acting on it?” I could not think of any good reasons. GM quoted Martin Luther King, saying that those that have some realization but don't act on it do more damage that those act act in ignorance. It makes me wonder how much realization a person really has if it does not propel them to act.
After finally landing in Charlotte, Madan Gopala picked us up and drove us to Karnamrta's home in Sandy Ridge, NC. During the ride Madan and GM discussed some differences between the impersonalist conception of nama and Mahaprabhu's teachings. Madan has been taking a class on South Asian Religions so asked questions about the Madhva and Ramanuja sects. I wasn't able to follow so closely because of being exhausted.
Gauravani Dasa - December 1, 2005 3:39 am
Wednesday Morning, GM gave a great talk. It began rather strange by a devotee stating that he came to embarrass Guru Maharaja. He said he wanted to read from a book entitled “Distribute Books! Distribute Books! Distribute Books!” where GM and his book distribution service was glorified by Prabhupada and other devotees. GM didn't give him the chance to read it until he was out of the room.
He began by discussing Mahaprabhu's journey to Vrndavana and how he was checked on multiple occasion by the affection of his devotees. GM noted that we should persevere on our journey to Vraja, just like Mahaprabhu did.
Guru Maharaja then began to discuss the significance of Govardhana-lila and the significance of Mahaprabhu's desire to see the Gopala Deity who resides at Govardhana.
He explained how Govardhana-lila is a practical example of saranagati--it's primary characteristic being a feeling of dependence on Krsna.. He also pointed out that he story of Madhavendra Puri also demonstrates the application of saranagati.
Mentioning verse 18.66 of the Gita, GM explained that dharma is recognizing the fact that there is consciousness behind everything. He gave an short summary of the topics in Sridhar Maharaja's Subjective Evolution of Consciousness and mentioned that the poetry of the sages is inspired by the fact that they see the world through the eyes of love, not exploitation. He also brought out the point that in srsti-lila, the pastime of creation, God plays the role of the savior. I never heard such a convincing explanation of creation!
One statement that Guru Maharaja made that really caught my attention was when he has explaining Sridhar Maharaja's comparison of Mahaprabhu to a Golden Volcano, erupting prema and engulfing everything around it. He said that the nature of Mahaprabhu is such that he almost takes away the free will of the jiva!
There is some contraversy in Prabhupada Village regarding the worship of Deities in the temple. Should it be just Prabhupada, or Gaura-Nitai, or both. They already have Radha-Gopinatha Deities beworhsipped at Karnamrta's house since GM's last visit. In fact, every time GM visits a set of Deities arrive beforehand to hear his talk.
Guru Maharaja touched upon the issue by explaining the purpose behind Bhaktisiddanta's criticism of smarta brahmanas--in particular the instance in which Bhaktisiddanta created a diorama depicting a brahamana using a Salagram Sila as a nutcracker. GM emphasized that we should take advantage of the Deity's ability to pull us out of material conditioning rather than using him to push us further into material entanglement by using the Deity for our livelihood.
GM stressed the point that the Deity is not a piece of stone. He cited Mahaprabhu's experience with the Gopala Deity at Govardahana Hill. Mahaprabhu did not want to walk upon Govardhana yet he desired to see Gopala. Gopala arranged for the threat of a Muslim attack and as a result was taken from Govardhana Hill to a place where Mahaprabhu could see him without walking on Govardhana Hill.
Karnamrta alter is filled with Deities of Gaura Nitai, Radha-Krsna and several Silas. It is quite obvious where where Krsna and his dear devotee are in this village.
Gauravani Dasa - December 1, 2005 3:39 am
Wednesday Evening Guru Maharaja extended his talk about saranagati by speaking about it in relation with sraddha.
Explaining the difference between belief and faith, GM pointed out that belief is a product of the mind and intelligence, while faith is divine in origin. He repeatedly stressed that faith come from association, sadhu-sanga, and that those with weak, tender faith must have sadhu-sangu to strengthen it.
He outlined the distinction between kanista and madyam-adhikaris based on their faith. A kanista's faith is primarily in the Deity without mush emphasis on the devotee. However, the madhyam has firm faith and discrimination--he is able to see who is more advanced and chooses to associate with those who are, all the while increasing his faith and sastric knowledge. A madhyam has more regard for the devotee than the Deity. This is perfectly in line with our philosophy because it demonstrates that Krsna is in the heart of his devotee, where the stage of saranagati has been erected.
Elaborating on saksad hari and kintu prabhor, Guru Maharaja also gave a short commentary of the Guru Gayatri. He said that we should assist the guru in his love of Krsna. Gurudevaya vidhamhi krsnanandaya. I found this particulary fascinating because I had contemplated this idea before and it was nice to hear Guru Maharaja's confirmation of it.
There was a much larger crowd this evening and Guru Maharaja is having a good time!
It's late so I am going to stop here. More to come!
Guru Maharaja ki jaya!
Bijaya Kumara Das - December 1, 2005 6:15 am
Thank you for the great rendidtion of your travels with Gurudeva.
It is nice to come home and read what is happening in His world.
Keep up the great help.
Syamasundara - December 1, 2005 8:41 pm
Thank you.
Babhru Das - December 1, 2005 11:09 pm
Guru Maharaja and I discussed some ideas for the temple and use of the land in Audarya. He proposed a dormitory-style building for monastic residence and publishing offices. I told him that I liked having to walk up and down the hills as exercise. He then made the point that one day, the monks will get old, and those hills might not be so exciting.
I think I'd still like the walk (although I'm only 58), except maybe on cold, rainy days. (I know--I'm spoiled, and I must pay!) then I thought of my 80-ish stepfather, who, although he has always been pretty active, can't really go for a walk around the block any more. I hear the clock ticking . . .
We also discussed the fact that many devotees, although they see the importance and purity of Guru Maharaja along with the need for others to hear from him, fail to stand up and actively support GM. I tried to think of reasons why someone would verbally express support for GM yet neglect to follow through with action. GM asked “If someone has some realization, why aren't they acting on it?” I could not think of any good reasons. GM quoted Martin Luther King, saying that those that have some realization but don't act on it do more damage that those act act in ignorance. It makes me wonder how much realization a person really has if it does not propel them to act.
This paragraph particularly struck me. I've felt the need to more clearly and publicly express my own confidence in and debt to Swami. I've published a review of his guru-parampara booklet, both on the Web and in ISKCON Communications Journal, and I wrote a long, strong explanation of how his Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and Philosophy is a faithful expression of service to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Writing that article, and publishing it simultaneously on the three leading devotee news sites (which remains unique), was a watershed event which seemed to bring about clear signs that I must do more, but I've been a little slow in responding. Everyone who knows me even fairly well knows of my connection with him. When I was negotiating with Umapati Swami (an old friend) about how to edit the Gita article for his site, he tried to give me a hard time about my association with Swami. I gave him a hard time right back. I've wanted to bring Swami here to the Big Island, where I think a number of devotees would appreciate him, at least to some degree, but I haven't been able to pull that off. I’ve missed what may have been a great opportunity for preaching and to get closer to Swami (both in service and geography). However, my life seems to be changing in ways that make it harder for me to avoid surrender.
When I hear Swami recount how Krishna glorifies the trees of Vrindavan because their lives are dedicated to others, and when I read comments like this, I feel chastened, and, I hope, spurred to action. having almost lost my father to a brain hemorrage two days ago, I really hear the clock ticking. (I guess this confessional post amounts to "What I held back today.")
Thanks for the reports, Gauravani. They are balm to the heart. Keep ‘em coming. (Any pictures?)
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 2, 2005 12:30 am
I guess no Swami Sanga Call is happenning today as well... Very very sad.....
Gauravani Dasa - December 2, 2005 4:20 pm
Thursday Morning, Guru Maharaja began by taking questions. Kamalini, wife of Apurva and mother of Panca-tattva, asked a question on behalf of her 4 year old granddaughter, Gandarvika. She was wondering how to see “the real Krsna” rather than just a picture or the Deity.
GM explained that Krsna cannot be seen with material senses. He made a sublime point by stating that although jivas are superior to matter, it is not for our enjoyment. We are also prakrti (para-prakrti), objects to be enjoyed by Krsna. Be agreeing to be seen as objects ourselves, similar to the way in which we see matter under the influence of false ego, then to that degree we will see “the real Krsna.” When we look at objects with the intent to enjoy, we actually take the life out of them. Material objects have a life of their own in relation to Krsna.
Guru Maharaja also referred to Gita 3.15, brahma nityam yajne pratisthitam: Brahman is situated in acts of sacrifice. When we give (sacrifice) the satisfaction that is derived is based on this fact that Krsna is situated in sacrifice. Although we may not be giving to the perfect taker, acts of sacrifice still bring us closer to Krsna.
Kamalini also said that in the early days of Iskcon, many devotees thought that if someone dropped a dollar, he/she should pick it up and use it for Krsna, rather than give it to the person that dropped it. The reasoning being that “they might use it for their sense gratification” and “they will make advancement if I use it for Krsna.” GM explained that bhakti is voluntary. Also, this kind of thinking could evolve into a very unbalanced, egotistical person who thinks “I'm a devotee. Everything I do is for Krsna. Get outa' my way!” GM said you can't give someone sukrti by cutting them off in traffic.
Gauravani Dasa - December 2, 2005 4:21 pm
Thursday after lunch Guru Maharaja and I met with the Archives to present a plan for the next version of the VedaBase. I felt very confident with GM sitting beside me so I was able to pull of my presentation with ease. The Archives are delighted with the plan and we are set to continue with a demo to be developed by April.
After thinking about the meeting, I mentioned to Karnamrta that it is only because of the guidance and support of GM that I am able to do such a nice job and stay focused on the project while living in Audarya.
Gauravani Dasa - December 2, 2005 4:22 pm
Thursday evening Guru Maharaja continued to touch on the subject pf sraddha and saranagati by referring to chapter 15 of the Gita. Since the subject of chapter 15 is the supreme person, it brings out the fact that Krsna is the asraya of all other avatars and jivas.
He made an interesting point about how Mahaprabhu's associates are helping him learn about Radha. He reference the incident where Mahaprabhu pointed Svarupa Damodara to Radhunatha Dasa Goswami for instructions. Mahaprabhu himself stated that Raghunatha knows more than him. GM mentioned that Raghunatha is a close associate of Radha in Krsna lila.
Chpater 15 of the Gita discusses detachment and GM stated that by stepping back from something we get a more objective view of it. If we are heavily involved in material affairs it is difficult for us to see how entangled we are. However, if we step back we begin to see a bigger picture. GM contrasted this against out spiritual ideal. We cultivate sambhanda-jnana, knowledge of ourselves, the material world and God. However, our goal is to come so close to Krsna, that we forget that he is God.
GM's favorite verse in chpater 15 is number 6 which states that there is no need for sun or moon in Krsna's abode, and once someone goes there, one never returns to the material world. GM said that we cannot purchase anything in the land of no death with dead thing--in other words, we can't go to Goloka with our mind or senses.
GM also gave a shot explanation of the Raghunatha's nama strestham verse. There is a lot that I am not able to write about so I encourage everyone to get a copy of the recordings. Let me know if you are interested.
Gauravani Dasa - December 2, 2005 4:23 pm
Friday Morning GM spoke at the home Vatsala Prabhu, former temple of president of LA. GM touched on many of the points he made in previous talks but also emphasized the fact that rules and regulations are meant to position us to learn how to love, not stifle love.
GM mentioned Sridhar Maharaja a couple of times and I felt a little tension in the room. Vatsala is a traditional Iskcon devotee and his wife is known as a ritvik.
One devotee stated that she appreciated that GM spoke so lovingly about Srila Prabhupada. She said she though GM didn't think about Srila Prabhupada much anymore! GM began to speak about his plans to build a samadhi in Audarya and made that statement that someone can say “Prabhupada! Prabhupada!” over and over again and people will get the hell out of your way. He spoke strongly against sentiment without philosophy.
Immediately after the talk Guru Maharaja was asked some questions that lead into a discussion of the history of Iskcon surrounding the time when Prabhupada left and GM went to see Sridhar Maharaja. I was so glad that GM had the chance to speak about Sridhar Maharaja and explain away so many misconceptions about who he is. It is amazing what has been propagated and is still believed today, but GM potrays SM so lovingly that one cannot help but be melted by hearing about him. I am not sure how convinced some of the devotees were immediately, but in the least a seed has been planted.
Srila Sridhar Maharaja ki jaya!
Srila Guru Maharaja ki jaya!
Gauravani Dasa - December 2, 2005 4:24 pm
Babhru Das - December 2, 2005 6:34 pm
Friday Morning GM spoke at the home Vatsala Prabhu, former temple of president of LA. . . . GM mentioned Sridhar Maharaja a couple of times and I felt a little tension in the room. Vatsala is a traditional Iskcon devotee and his wife is known as a ritvik.
One devotee stated that she appreciated that GM spoke so lovingly about Srila Prabhupada. She said she though GM didn't think about Srila Prabhupada much anymore! GM began to speak about his plans to build a samadhi in Audarya and made that statement that someone can say “Prabhupada! Prabhupada!” over and over again and people will get the hell out of your way. He spoke strongly against sentiment without philosophy.
I find it encouraging that Vatsala and Sasikala invited Swami to their home, and that he was given room to share his realizations. These misgivings, these misconceptions about his relationship with Srila Prabhupada, that his appreciation has been somehow diminished, sometimes drive me up the wall. I hear something like that a little even here, although not specifically about him. A couple of devotees here who have a more sentimental appreciation of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON have sometimes told me how happy they are that I'm a "100% Prabhupada man." I always get really uncomfortable and point out that I consider Tripurari Maharaja a real Prabhupada man, because his entire adult life has been dedicated to serving Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, without any reservation, whereas I've allowed my time and energy to be diverted to some degree here and there. We need to have enough faith to confront these misconceptions, which are based in gossip and nothing else. We should, of course, do so in a gentle enough way that we won't upset anyone unnecessarily.
Bhrigu - December 2, 2005 7:17 pm
Just wanted to drop you a note, Gauravani, and tell you how much I appreciate your updates. I'm amazed by your ability to summarise GMs lectures. You are a good listener.
And congrats for getting the Archives people behind your Vedabase plan! 
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 2, 2005 7:37 pm
Thursday after lunch Guru Maharaja and I met with the Archives to present a plan for the next version of the VedaBase.
And congrats for getting the Archives people behind your Vedabase plan!
What is the plan exactly?
Syamasundara - December 3, 2005 1:52 am
It filled me with joy, too. I must confess I was also a victim of those misconceptions; I just absorbed that mentality, didn't even think by myself. So, similarly there must be a lot of innocently offensive devotees out there so to speak and it's important that we present Srila Sridhara Maharaja, his relationship with Srila Prabhupada and all that GM embodies in the most non-invasive, yet appealing way; teach them that "there is a lot of grey inbetween," to quote GM.
I am always happy when more Iskcon people are exposed to GM's preaching that's like a solvent on their fossilized external shells.
Gauravani Dasa - December 3, 2005 10:30 pm
I would like to retract my offer for recordings of the NC talks. I should have checked with Gurunishta before hand, but it turns out we will need them for the Audarya Audio subscriptions. I apologize for this.
Babhru Das - December 4, 2005 12:41 am
Oh, dear--does that mean that there won't be an mp3 CD available of all the talks, as there often is? Now, that's a big disappointment! I can understand why, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who will fuss and fret over what he's missing.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - December 4, 2005 4:39 am
Even if subscription CDs will duplicate what will be published on MP3 CD (as it always is) I'm all for it -- please publish MP3 CD with NC talks anyway! Big disappointment is underestimation. I've never heard of people buying MP3 CDs instead of subscription CDs, they usually get both, so there is no harm.
Shyam Gopal Das - December 4, 2005 9:08 am
I think having a mp3 cd would be nice. Oftentimes questions asked after lectures are not on the subscription cds. I would like to hear them.
Gauravani Dasa - December 4, 2005 2:32 pm
Gurunistha handles the editing and creation of the subscription CDs. I am only recording while I am here.
I agree that this would be a nice collection, especially since the running theme has been saranagati.
Friday night and Saturday morning, Guru Maharaja visited the home of Madan Gopala and Panca Tattva. It was a wonderful atmosphere and several of GM's Godbrothers and Godsisters came to hear from him, in particular Urmila dasi. She asked questions specifically about the difference between being internally absorbed in bhajana and preaching. GM stated frankly that one could become internally absorbed during his/her preaching--even at the airport.
Guru Maharaja visited the Hillsborough temple of Bir Krsna Goswami. Although BKG was out of town, the temple president Krsna-priya dasi came to hear from GM.
Karnamrta suggested and GM liked the idea of making Hillsborough part of his NC tour.
Madangopal - December 4, 2005 5:25 pm
Here are a few pictures of the program at our house. I will be including some notes from the whole visit when I get a chance.
Madangopal - December 4, 2005 5:26 pm
group photo
Madangopal - December 4, 2005 5:29 pm
in his element:
Madangopal - December 4, 2005 5:33 pm
Guru Maharaj remarked that he really liked the picture he is sitting below. It is a pencil drawing of Prabhupada done by a Russian woman.
Gauravani Dasa - December 4, 2005 8:33 pm
Saturday Evening after returning from Madan Gopala's home, Guru Maharaja sopke about the rules of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. He said that Srimad Bhagavatam is the New Testament of Vedic literature--all other scripture is superseded by the Bhagavatam. The Vedanta Sutra is the end of Vedic knowledge and the Bhagavatam is a commentary on the sutras. Vedanta follows the dharma sastra and we have been qualified to hear Vedanta because of sadhu-sanga.
GM pointed out that the rules generally given for meditation (time, place, purity) have been thrown out by Mahaprabhu in his first verse of the Siksastakam. In addition, although Krsna's name, form, qualities and lila are non-different from him, the name is more merciful. We should not make an effort to perform lila-smaranam because everything is contained in Krsna's name and will come out in due course. Besides, the name itself has an agenda and we are part of it.
In the context of modern, mainstream yoga, GM likes to point out, “Why not just sit and do samadhi?” There are many steps until one is qualified to do real meditation (dhyana), such as yama, niyama, etc. So if you are going to skip all of those steps, why not just go straight to samadhi. The obvious answer is that just like meditation, you cannot go straight to samadhi, purification is required.
A listener asked about namaparadha and GM explained that as long as you have sincere remorse for the offenses you have commited against the name, the name will stay with you.
As for dharma, it is in the heart of the sadhu, the active agent of the divinity (as opposed to scripture which is the passive agent).
Gaudiya Vaisnavism is a doctrine of love, not law.
Gauravani Dasa - December 4, 2005 8:34 pm
Sunday Morning a devotee asked about the revolutionary approach of Bhaktivinoda and why hasn't this approach been maintained. GM explained that BVT's vision was given structure by Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Prabhupada implemented a particular stage of this vision. GM stressed that we can understand and appreciate what our acaryas have given when we look at their contribution in context. In addition, we can see who the principles have been applied and apply them to modern circumstances.
The questioner pointed out three areas where modern Gaudiya Vaisnavism has problems: social dysfunctions, authority issues and scriptural interpretation. GM explained that these issues are a result of kanistha-adhikari mentality. GM then proceeded to outline the events that occurred around Srila Prabhupada's dissapearance, the obviously valuable guidance offered by Sridhar Maharaja, the fact that personal interests motivated the gurus chosen to succeed Prabhupada and the eventual offenses made by them. Vaisnava aparadha is the root cause of the faith crisis in Iskcon.
GM also said that despite the fact that Iskcon began with a single spiritual authority, we will now always live in a plurality of spiritual authority--we must learn to honor each other faith. Faith itself is our worshipable Deity.
Babhru Das - December 4, 2005 10:47 pm
If anyone wants to know why I've taken shelter of Swami's company, here it is right here. Honor each other's faith. Appreciate our acharyas' contibutions in context. (To this end I wrote an essay some years ago for which Swami has expressed some appreciation. It has been published in ISKCON San Diego's Janmastami/Vyasa-puja souvenir magazines and on the Web. You can find it here.) Vaishnava aparadha is the root cause of ISKCON's faith crisis. I don't think anyone says it as clearly and accurately as our Swami.
Thanks so much, Gauravani. And I also really like that picture.
Guru-nistha Das - December 5, 2005 12:00 am
Good stuff, Gauravani!
I envy your steadiness in putting out those reports.
It seems like people don't mind although (some of) the MP3 talks would be released as monthly CD lectures as well, so then it's no problem that we put out the MP3 CD too. Earleir there had been complaints about the fact that same talks were on both releases, so that's why I thought of putting them out only as the monthly talks. So no big disappointments necessary
Mathura-natha Das - December 5, 2005 7:45 am
Good stuff, Gauravani!I envy your steadiness in putting out those reports.
It seems like people don't mind although (some of) the MP3 talks would be released as monthly CD lectures as well, so then it's no problem that we put out the MP3 CD too. Earleir there had been complaints about the fact that same talks were on both releases, so that's why I thought of putting them out only as the monthly talks. So no big disappointments necessary
The fact that you somtimes end up with lectures duplicated when you grab a hold on the MP3 just gives one the opportunity to give away the lecture cd:s that comes with the subscription, so no harm!
Bhrigu - December 5, 2005 11:22 am
I just saw a posting of the Saturday evening and Sunday morning classes over at Gaudiya Discussions. It contains some more details from those classes and some wonderful appreciations of Guru Maharaja as well, so I have copied it below. It was written by Anand (Govinda Dasi). Hope you don't mind, if you are here as well!
"Only a nine hours drive" -- America!
--
It was a nice lecture Tripurari Swami’s last night. And then this morning everyone went back for an informal question and answers type of talk.
Swami said some interesting things. I can see how his well thought out views, combined with a soft-spoken style of presentation, makes him one of the most celebrated preachers in the field today. Well, at least around Iskcon related audiences it is clear he makes an instant impression. Indeed, he is in town for the second time since a year ago and the attendance has grown nearly one hundred per cent since. Enthusiastic reviews of his previous visit clearly contributed to a larger interest in his presence in the community this second time around. “I only go where I am invited to”, Swami said at the end of this morning’s talk. Thus he has never been, and is not going to be in Alachua just yet, he announced. Alachua is only a nine hours drive from North Carolina. Too bad for me I suppose - I will be in Alachua next week and would not mind hearing Swami speak yet again. Who knows, maybe he would speak on an entire new topic, or offer an entire new angle on some threaded, rehashed issues.
On symbolism and Krsna lila, Swami said this morning that it is unavoidable that we will project symbolic meanings into a world beyond intellectuality. Acaryas such as Sanatana Goswami too questioned the lila in the same way or even more intensely - these were highly intellectually inclined personalities. But they were primarily bhaktas, and they worked their intelligence into the essence of these narrations and brought their refined understanding back to us. So intelligence is necessary but, intellect is a razor’s edge that can greatly help just as it can greatly harm, he added. He sees that some devotees have difficulties in their spiritual lives precisely due to too great intellectual activity. He explained that intelligence is a part of ego that has to be left behind just as any other part. Human life means freedom - freedom from lower consciousness into the portal to experiencing love. We are humans not because of reason but because of love. As humans we are given a chance to love, a chance to freedom. And with freedom come the taking of risks and also responsibility. Thus we submit to the laws of God and nature, not by force but by choice, by the volunteer movement of love. “We must not go out and bump others because we are devotees – because we are more ‘advanced’”, he advised. We must not think that we are in a movement to make devotees, but that we have been put in a position where we are in such a need that we go out to find in others that which will make us into the devotees we aspire to be. So Bhakti is not about law, but volunteer movement of the soul. From this feeling towards bhakti there will be submission to guru. “I must have a guru”. This understanding will come from a desire to be giving, to be of the quality of those who have that which we aspire for, not from a calculated acceptance of rules.
Mahaprabhu came to begin a revolution, and we come to Mahaprabhu because we want a revolution. We want to reform the concept of love from Paramatma to Radha-Govinda. We want to make our heart soft, still we abide by strict rules. It seems contradictory but those whose intelligence is guided by faith can understand how this works. Mahaprabhu established Srimad Bhagavatam as the ‘New Testament’. Until the Bhagavat, humanity related to God as Paramatma. Na dhanaM na janaM na sundarIM kavitAM vA jagad-Iza kAmaye mama janmani janmanIzvare bhavatAd bhaktir ahaitukI tvayi.
So, Mahaprabhu brings us to a crossroads. We now have a chance to go beyond human interests into the world of pure love. We are no longer interested in pursuing perfection in human experience -dhanam, janam, sundarim, comfort, understanding and relationships. We will touch the divine by dislodging Paramatma in the heart so to make space for Radha-Govinda. “How will we be guided then if we are no longer in contact with Paramatama?”, someone asked. The answer was, guidance then comes in the heart through the manifestation of antaryami. From this presence of Krishna a different kind of intelligence comes into play. Intelligence is then spiritualized, functioning under the jurisdiction of the heart, of sradha. From such position one will understand shastra progressively. In such a position one will be nipuna, brilliant in understanding, creative in presentation, a scriptural genius. Understanding of shastra then will not be limited but expansive and comprehensible, not intellectual and reasanable only, but mystical in nature, capable of transformation and revolution. This has been shown by our acaryas.
Intelligence rooted in faith may appear to some as arrogance and pride. Such misunderstanding of the devotee’s words and actions can come from intellectual activity taking precedent over faith.
Bhrigu - December 5, 2005 2:50 pm
Madangopal, who is the person behind you in the group photo? The one with the impressive moustache? Also otherwise it would be nice to hear more about the devotees who have attended Guru Maharaja's classes. Who is who? I could recognise some from the pictures in their profiles (Karnamrita, Pancatattva, you), but not all. Who is behind Karnamrita?
Regards,
The James Hetfield of Gaudiya Vaishnavism
Swami - December 5, 2005 2:50 pm
This particualr post does not do a good job of representing what I said, but I appreciate the appreciation. You will have to hear the talks from those classes.
Gauravani Dasa - December 5, 2005 6:16 pm
Sitting behind Karnamrta is Jim Churchill, the newest member of Tattva-viveka. Jim's son, Ian, is sitting near Madan Gopala.
Steve is the gentleman with the mustache. He lives in Winston Salem. He had some association with Iskcon in the early days, travelling around the East Cost. I think he mentioned that he met "Swami Bhaktipada." He also spent some time in the AHAM ashram as well (in Asheboro, NC my hometown!).
Gauravani Dasa - December 5, 2005 6:40 pm
Sunday Evening Arcana-siddhi asked for clarification about the state of one's body and mind as one progresses in bhakti. Guru Maharaja stated that even though someone may be pure he or she may not be a “poster boy” model of physical physique. Also, a the personality of an individual may or may not rub against our own.
GM cited the verse from CC Antya 4.192: diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama. When one's sambhanda-jnana is complete he/she comes under the jurisdiction of svarupa-sakti. Sanatana Goswami's body was covered with sores, yet Mahaprabhu stated that his body was cid-ananda-maya (CC Antya 4.193).
GM then gave a description of the multiple types of bodies that we have:
material body - gross and subtle
sadhaka-deha - spiritualized gross and subtle body
siddha-deha - fully spiritual
GM pointed out that in verse 5 of the Siksastakam, Mahaprabhu is praying for a spiritual identity. This is the stage of asakti when one is attached to the object of bhakti (rather than bhakti in the stage of ruci).
Our identity is based on attachment, so when we are attached to material things our material ego is promenint. As we develop spiritual attachment, then a siddha-deha emerges. This is of course a very high stage in the progrssion of bhakti, after anartha-nirvrtti and nistha.
The basis of material identity is exploitation. The basis of spiritual identity is service.
Gauravani Dasa - December 5, 2005 6:41 pm
Monday morning Guru Maharaja gave a awesome outline of the various paths detailed in the Vedas and the rules that correspond to them:
Karma-marga (ie, dharma, religion) is the process of acknowledging our dependence upon nature/God. The life of dharma is only remotely connected to God - its aim is material betterment - like a business relationship with God. The rules contained in the dharma-sastra are numerous and complex.
Jnana-marg focuses on transcending material nature. This path's rules are for meditation and are less numerous that dharma-marg. The act of taking from God is retired.
Bhakti-marg is free from the desire for material or spiritual gain (liberation) and is characterized by service (giving rather than taking). There are even less rules here, simply ways to attract the attention of God.
GM gave the example of a rich man who is approached by three kinds of people: one who want his money, one who wants his knowledge/skill for the purpose of making money and one who just wants to be friends with the man. Each step brings you closer to that person.
GM also clarified the goal of the Buddhists. He stated that the consider consciousness a function of the mind and seek to connect of merge with the natural flow of nature/matter. This is called prakrti-nirvana.
In jnana, consciousness is recognized as a reality, yet it is seen as singular rather than plural (undifferentiated Brahman).
Panchatattva - December 6, 2005 4:42 am
Well, today is the first day in five days that I have not been able to hear our GuruMaharaj speak in person. And the bleak, gloomy, rainy day today mirrors the feelings in my heart. Wow, after hearing such hari-katha the mundane becomes so boring. I didn't know how I would get through this day adjusting back to the ordinary, but yet not the ordinary because I now have a greater appreciation for sadhusanga. When one experiences such spiritual joy, going to the mall and shopping or being with co-workers becomes so empty. I realized today that my challenge is to keep the effect of GM's association within my heart and life all the time. For the stage I'm at right now the vani and vapu combined is very powerful.
Sooooo, Gauravani has been doing an excellent job at recounting the talks. I'm not as good with sequential recounting and remembering all the points. Something that repeatedly came up in GM's talks was the difference between faith and suspension. I really liked this point because I'm experiencing it firsthand. I have been suspended in suspicion and there is no movement. I've been frozen over. It feels really wonderful to be able to feel the melting of the heart faith brings and the prospect that it brings. I feel I have a future worth looking forward to. The evening GM was at our home he gave a wonderful talk on the fourth verse of Siksastakam. This is the first time he has spoken in Hillsborough, and I felt so happy being able to "share" him with the devotees here. His genuine humility, generosity, amazing ability to speak about the philosophy of Gaudiyavaishnavism, and also his very approachable personality naturally melts people's hearts. I feel I need to be part of a revolution in destroying the ignorance and misconceptions about him. And not everyone will care to listen, but more and more devotees are and feeling the impact of his preaching.
Well, I won't try to paraphrase his talks because I'll just mess up. Just get that MP3 out asap, and everyone can listen.
Just like GMaharaj says that love is a secretive thing and you can't just broadcast it to anyone and everyone, I feel solace in this on-line group for I feel I can express my love for him and be understood and appreciated. I'm very surprised at how much I miss him. I didn't know about this guru/disciple love. Is it because the guru is so close to Sri Krsna the abode of love, that I feel this attachment? Or is it that I feel such immense gratitude that someone so high is willing to help me get bhakti. And that that high devotee also is a person who is relatable. It makes it sweeter to know that GM likes fried chilis in his dahl, and that he likes popcorn, and that he wants to see the Blue Ridge Mountains, and he cares enough about me to ask where I work and then remembers it later. Before he came I was wondering about how a disciple balances the awe and reverence of sri guru with the love and feeling we humans need to experience. I don't know if I could answer it, but I think I'm gradually understanding. I would love to hear all of your ideas.
Well, what can I say. It was a wonderful visit. He blessed my home and my heart. Now my house reminds me of him being here, and that is a good thing. I'm just thinking of how I can get to Audarya. We should pick a festival and as many of us should go so that we can get to know our group. Of course I don't want to give the Audaryavasis a nervous breakdown, but I'd love to meet more of you.
Ok, goodnight and hari bol!
Babhru Das - December 6, 2005 5:47 am
Just like GMaharaj says that love is a secretive thing and you can't just broadcast it to anyone and everyone, I feel solace in this on-line group for I feel I can express my love for him and be understood and appreciated.
I think that many of us have this experience, and I thank you for bringing it up. We all owe Swami and the Audaryavasis so much for providing this opportunity for us to express the appreciation and, yes, the love we feel for him. It's a little hard to express even to my family. My wife and daughters, and all my friends, know that I have great regard and affection for him, but only my wife knows how I'm drawn to just going out and helping him with his different projects, even to the point of getting ready to chuck everything else, if that's what it takes. One friend recently asked me about writing Swami, apparently to ask him for advice or help with something. He had asked how often I write Swami, to which I replied, "Not as often as I'd like or as I should. I'ml a little shy about bothering him. I feel reluctant to write unless I have something to offer him. After my friend wrote Swami, he and I spoke briefly, and he said, "With these devotees, our connection really should be about service, shouldn't it?" I thought, "Now we're getting somewhere!" and replied, "Well, that's how I feel about it.
I'm very surprised at how much I miss him. I didn't know about this guru/disciple love. Is it because the guru is so close to Sri Krsna the abode of love, that I feel this attachment? Or is it that I feel such immense gratitude that someone so high is willing to help me get bhakti. And that that high devotee also is a person who is relatable. It makes it sweeter to know that GM likes fried chilis in his dahl, and that he likes popcorn, and that he wants to see the Blue Ridge Mountains, and he cares enough about me to ask where I work and then remembers it later. Before he came I was wondering about how a disciple balances the awe and reverence of sri guru with the love and feeling we humans need to experience. I don't know if I could answer it, but I think I'm gradually understanding. I would love to hear all of your ideas.
Maharaja sometimes compares the relationship between the guru with a couple of the relationships in sakhya rasa. The guru is like a suhrit sakha: he feels friendship mixed with a sort of parental well-wishing tendency. And the disciple is like the younger sakhas, whose friendship is mixed with a tendency to serve. One thing I think it's easy to appreciate about our Tripurari Maharaja is that he's a real person. It's hard to find any evidence of pretense in him. What comes through strongest are his dedication to service and his honest concern for everyone he encounters. And I think that's what the devotees who have come to hear him in North Carolina are understanding.
I can't wait for those mp3's to be available!
Bijaya Kumara Das - December 6, 2005 7:39 am
I cant wait for the mp3s either for they are the real thing besides this on the spot reporting makes you feel like you are actually right there.
And what I like most is His the personal presense which comes through loud and clear in what ever form reaches me vapu or vani.
Madangopal - December 6, 2005 2:20 pm
November 29, first day:
Tonight I picked up Guru Maharaj from the airport. I was very excited to see him. Anticipation makes me sweat and I was very passionate to get to the airport on time. I was afraid that I was going to be late. I waited at one escalator only to turn to see that he and Gauravani prabhu were already waiting at the baggage claim.
I approached and offered my obeisances and all I could do was smile. I felt quite shy, yet super excited to have his association. Swami smiled and looked at me for a moment and said "It's nice to see you." I was nervous and couldn't talk, so I proceeded to help Gauravani with the luggage. I escorted the monks to my car and we were off on the two hour drive to Prabhupada Village.
One thing that I marvel at is GM's ability to balance the state of transcendental absorption and the practical side of life simultaneously. I notice this often when I'm with him. He makes me feel so comfortable. Of course he is someone I respect deeply and yet we can have a conversation in a relaxed fashion about seemingly mundane things. However, when he speaks philosophy he is speaking for everyone and I can ease into student mode instantly. He is expert like that.
On the ride we discussed many things:
- I said that everyone is excited to see him. I commented that it must be quite a trial, all that long travelling. GM said "we came for you!"
- Land, trees, architecture and the "neighborhood" at Audarya.
- Saguna and nirguna conceptions of the Sants; contemporary spiritualists of Mahaprabhu..
- Madhva and Ramanuja, and the supremacy of Mahaprabhu's teachings.
- My local ISKCON temple and where ISKCON leadership is at politically in relation to GM. At this point he brought out the quote from Martin Luther King jr. that would serve as one theme for his visit. MLK said that the biggest problem with the civil rights struggle was not the outright bigots but with the moderates, people who believed in the civil rights cause but were unwilling to participate in the revolution. They suggested that it was not the right time, that with time the cause will become more accepted.
The moderate leadership within the ISKCON institution who have a favorable view towards GM will eventually have to get off the fence if progress is to be made in this area. Simultaneously, followers of GM should be mature in how they represent him to ISKCON.
We arrived at Karnamrita and Arcana prabhus house late. A few of our regular group were there to greet him. He said a few nice words and then retired for the night.
Dhiralalita - December 6, 2005 4:27 pm
However, my life seems to be changing in ways that make it harder for me to avoid surrender.
Would you care to elaborate on this remark Babhru prabhu? In other words would you mind sharing some of your realizations on the subject?
Babhru Das - December 6, 2005 6:31 pm
I think that, particularly in light of my remarks, it may be useful for me to do so, both for myself and our members. However, I think that I need to consider carefully what's appropriate to share and just how I may best share that. May I have a little extra time to complete the assignment?
Dhiralalita - December 6, 2005 8:52 pm
I think that, particularly in light of my remarks, it may be useful for me to do so, both for myself and our members. However, I think that I need to consider carefully what's appropriate to share and just how I may best share that. May I have a little extra time to complete the assignment?
Oui, certainement...
Madangopal - December 6, 2005 9:09 pm
When I started to think about reporting the daily classes to Tattva Viveka I took notes - just a couple of times. There is something about being present and just hearing attentively that felt better to me than taking down specific points. So, more or less I just have some "Swami sutras" and anectodes floating around in my head that keep me happy. Details of the classes are better found by just listening to them. I certainly will be listening to them again as they were packed with nectar. I'll just report some of the impressions that Guru Maharaj made on me while here.
The program at our house on Friday night was intense. Pancha and I were so eager, anxious and happy to have him. He came while I was in the middle of vacuuming! I was listening to an old recording I have of Agnideva and he sat down on the couch and listened. He said "we are right at home - Agni is chanting..." He was so relaxed and seemed quite happy to be here. He is so friendly and reciprocal in his relationship with his students. Pancha made some dahl and rice that he enjoyed very much. He asked for some fried green chili to be added. He likes spicy!
The program in the evening was a mix of guests like we never see here. People who normally would not be in the same room together came to hear from our Swami. New devotees, old devotees, non-devotees, banned (from ISKCON) devotees, you name it. GM's wisdom is a uniter.
And the class was so intense... I got the impression from him the other day that he thought so too.
He was very absorbed and "in the zone"; transcendental zone. The main thing I remember from that class was at one point he answered a question from Kamalini. He had such feeling and the atmosphere was so spiritually thick. He said "You just worship VISHVAMBARA, go to Srivasa Angan and join the kirtan there. There you will find who you are." The moment was so surcharged I felt my heart quiver and thought I was going to cry. Pancha later told me she was similarly moved by the moment. The way he said it was just so deep... I thought "I'm going there, that's where you are - LET'S ALL GO!"
Madangopal - December 7, 2005 2:23 am
"I tell my disciples 'if you don't read these books, you are my worst nightmare waiting to happen'. I'm living in the book."
-Guru Maharaj Friday morning at Vatsala's house.
Babhru Das - December 7, 2005 4:06 am
Madangopal - December 7, 2005 10:55 am
Some notes from Saturday evening class:
-The proper process of development of realization is nama smaranam, then rupa, then guna, then lila.
- There are ? many ways to understand an author's intent. The purpose he/she states, what is repeated throughout... So, in Bhagavatam the glories of kirtana are stated throughout. The first verse refers to kirtan "satyam param dhimahi." I wasn't here for this, but GM seemed to imply that these words refer to "meditation on the absolute" in a plural setting; in other words kirtana. Also the last verse glorifies kirtana "nama sankirtanam yasya."
- If you think you understand varnashrama, think again. According to varnashrama Caitanya Mahaprabhu could not eat at the house of the Mathura brahmana. They were of the same "caste", but a sannyasi brahmana from one type of family will not eat at another type of brahmana's house. Why did He eat there?
- The goal of varnashrama is to please Lord Visnu. Kaviraja Goswami says that if you worship Krsna but not Mahaprabhu you are a demon! Heavy guy. After all, Jarasandha performed varnashrama, but he tried to kill Krsna!
- People follow their propensities naturally, unless they join ISKCON or Gaudiyaism and get all confused about varnashrama and how it applies to nama!
In this way G.M. was making the point that Mahaprabhu started a new religion that was not based on rules.
- Mahaprabhu's is a religion of love, not rules. It's not a rule that you chant so many names. If you want to attract Him, sing His name.
- There are no hard and fast rules for chanting - namnam akari bahuda... There is only one rule, if you want to do it right; "trnad api sunicena." We should act like a follower of C.M. by following this rule. kirtaniya sada hari - you'll be fulfilling all the rules.
- C.M. carried Haridasa's body, embraced Sanatana's sore covered body. At the time of diksa - cid ananda moy. The body is purified. As much as we are actually a sadhaka, we have a spiritual body, and Krsna worships that body.
- No one says as nice a thing about Krsna as the Gaudiya's. How will Krsna feel about them?
- In Brahma Vimohana lila, Brahma explains that Krsna is the source of Narayana. Madhva skipped over these chapters in his commentary. Ramanuja did not comment on the Bhagavatam at all!
Gauravani Dasa - December 7, 2005 5:30 pm
A few notes about the last talk given by Guru Maharaja at the home of Dulal Chandra dasa and Arci dasi:
* Religious reform is perpetual because when the charisma of the founding individual becomes institutionalized and stifled in an effort to distibute it, a revolution is required. Revolutionaries are often misunderstood, especially by the institution which represents what needs to be revolutionized. This example is demonstrated by our acarya, from Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, Prabhupada and our Guru Maharaja.
* The art and poetry of the Bhagavatam is painted and written on the canvas of Vedanta.
* We are feelers more than thinkers. The soul is emotive.
* Chanting Krsna nama removes are exploitative tendency: ceto-darpana-marjanam
There were several new people that came to hear from Guru Maharaja who were very inspired by his talk. There is momentum building in NC!
Gauravani Dasa - December 7, 2005 5:43 pm
Tuesday Morning, on the way to the airport, we stopped to see several mini zebu herds. Mathura dasa and his wife Citralekha are seriously considering the purchase of a zebu and Guru Maharaja has been advising them. He found a very nice herd with some choice cows outside of Charlotte at the Lazy Five Ranch.
Mathura, who is a disciple of Bir Krsna Goswami, asked Guru Maharaja several questions about the origin of the jiva and gay devotees.
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As a conclusion, here are a few realizations I had during this trip:
1) In Audarya, I look up at the stars in the morning and feel so small. The universe is so big and beautiful, yet it is only a spark of Krsna's splendor. On the plane looking at the city from above, it looks similar to the sky--full of lights--and conveys the same message: life is small and short. There is a much bigger picture and we can only pray to become a part of it.
2) Sadhu-sanga is EVERYTHING! We cannot get faith or make any advancement without the association of saintly persons who are vessels of love for Krsna. We cannot even approach the sastra (dharma, jnana or bhakti) without guidance from the active agent of divinity. Gaudiya Vaisnavism means to find one who has love for Krsna, serve him/her and somehow become attached to them.