Tattva-viveka

Vandanam

Tadiya Dasi - February 16, 2006 1:10 pm

Prayer in devotional practise

Last night, I was browsing through old issues of Bhakti lata –magazine ( the magazine that ISKCON publishes here in Finland). Our very own Krsangi & Kamalaksa and Bhrigu were once involved in making that magazine, and what caught my eye last night was one of Bhrigu’s editorials. In it Bhrigu mentions one prayer that his Guru (I don’t know if he is referring the our Guru Maharaja, given the date I don’t think so) taught him to recite, the prayer goes like this:” My dear spiritual master, have mercy upon me, a sinner.” The instruction was to internalize this prayer & make it a silent prayer of one’s heart.

Anyways, this editorial made me think of prayer and it’s place in our devotional practise. Prayer, vandanam, is included in the list of the nine primary limbs of devotion:sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam…

So, prayer must be important & helpful to our bhakti. However, I for one feel like I have neglected this aspect of devotion . I am a little confused about what exactly is meant by “vandanam”. Does it refer to reciting sastric prayers only or can we take it to mean “prayer” in a broader sense? Should we stick to sastric prayers or is it okay to pray in “free-style” ( ) (talking to Krishna in our minds etc.)?

The sastras are full of examples of devotees offering prayers to Krishna. There are the prayers of Queen Kunti (which come to mind because I am currently reading them) & countless others. Caitanya-caritamrita has many nice verses glorifying Gaura-Nityananda. Many of the songs we sing have nice “prayer-like” verses glorifying the Lord & Sri Guru. So, obviously, learning these verses by heart & reciting them must be good for us. But it seems that there might be room for different kind of prayer too. The kind that I mentioned in the beginning of this thread. Internalized, silent prayer of our heart.

The Gita speaks about that too: (9.34) “man-mana bhava mad-bhakto…”, “always think of Me”, “Fix your mind in Me”. Examples of that are the prayer for mercy that Bhrigu talks about in Bhakti-lata, and other similar prayers, like: “Mother Hara, please talk to Your Krishna on my behalf”, “Lord Nityananda please have mercy” and “Krishna, please let me love You”.

I find myself uttering these kind of prayers sometimes when I chant. I say to Krishna in my mind:” Please let me be attentive to Your Holy Names! Please take away this fear/pride/laziness/etc. that keeps me from loving You! Engage me in Your service”. I also have a habit of praying to Gurudeva:” Please guide me & let me serve you”.

I have heard all kinds of instruction about this subject. In ISKCON some devotees told me that we should just chant the Maha-mantra and recite the prayers from the sastras, because that is the “safe way” to pray & they “cover” all aspects of prayer such as praise, thanksgiving, asking for forgiveness & requesting something from the Lord. Srila Prabhupada refers to the Maha-mantra as “a prayer for deliverance, protection and engagement in the Lord’s service”. Srila Prabhupada also called the Siksastakam as “the supremely valuable prayers”. So, the question is: Do we need any other prayer in our sadhana except the Maha-mantra and the sastric prayers? Japa is, after all, the most important part of our sadhana and Harinam should be our main focus.

I would be interested to hear what place “vandanam” has in your sadhana? What are your favorite prayers? What is your experience of prayer, both "free-style" & sastric.

All I know is that I have been reassured by Gurudeva, and I've read statements of Srila Prabhupada, that no sincere prayer to the Lord & Sri Guru go in vain. So, I take courage from that .

Robertnewman - February 16, 2006 4:01 pm

My dear spiritual master, have mercy upon me, a sinner.”

Very interesting. Is everybody aware that this is an exact paraphrase of the so-called "Jesus Prayer" used for japa by many Christians? The original goes, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me, a sinner."

Nanda-tanuja Dasa - February 16, 2006 7:27 pm

I would be interested to hear what place “vandanam” has in your sadhana? What are your favorite prayers? What is your experience of prayer, both "free-style" & sastric.

When I do japa, because of my fallen position I cannot visualize the Lord, my mind wonders. To pacify it I try to meditate on Guru Maharaja, Audarya, temple room or do free-style vandanam. Free-style because I don’t remember many sastric prayers by heart. So I do it in English, or whatever language my mind uses.

Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja:
The bhava is the most important thing, the inner feeling, inner sentiment, ruci; that is more valuable than the formalities, fashion. An uneducated man may say: 'visnaya namah' grammatically incorrect. A scholarly man will say: 'visnave namah' if he is grammatically correct. But the Lord will accept the meaning, the purpose of the heart, not so much the outer ornamental figure or aspect.

Gauravani Dasa - February 16, 2006 7:47 pm

I recently asked Guru Maharaja about prayer. I expressed that sometimes I felt as though I were asking the Lord for too much--praying too much for in my service and sadhana.

Guru Maharaja replied no matter what the motivation in prayer, the act builds momentum towards a feeling of dependence and protection in relation to the Lord (goptrtve varana/visvasa palana) which is part of surrender (saranagati).

He emphasized that prayer is an act of the heart, exercising it out of its atrophied condition--especially during those times when the last thing we feel like doing is praying.

I offer "free-style" prayers to Gaura Nitai before morning and evening aratis. I also try to be mindful of the meaning of the pranam prayers to Guru Maharaja and Gaura Nitai.

As a side note, here is a link about the prayers of some Orthodox Christian monks in Mount Athos:

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/bhaktiyoga/bhaktiyoga-6.htm#2

Babhru Das - February 16, 2006 8:06 pm

Guru Maharaja replied no matter what the motivation in prayer, the act builds momentum towards a feeling of dependence and protection in relation to the Lord (goptrtve varana/visvasa palana) which is part of surrender (saranagati).

He emphasized that prayer is an act of the heart, exercising it out of its atrophied condition--especially during those times when the last thing we feel like doing is praying.

There's a nice line in the film Shadowlands, attributed to C. S. Lewis. I haven't been able to find out yet whether Lewis actually said this, but it may be based on something he said in his essays or speeches: "I pray because I can't help myself. I pray because I'm helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time, waking and sleeping. It doesn't change God, it changes me."

Karnamrita Das - February 17, 2006 2:16 am

Prayer is my favorite devotional activity, as it is the best way for me to feel my connection with Krsna and Guru. Prayer immediately acknowledges our limitations as finite beings controlled by material attractions, and that our only hope is the mercy of our Gurus and the Sri Nitai Gaura, Radha Gopinatha etc.

I write pages and pages of prayers, and besides loving to read the prayers of scripture, I just pray from my heart. I have made up standard prayers which I relate to for begging to make rapid spiritual advancement and to really be able to please Prabhupada, Swami and the Lord.

I wake our home Deities every morning, and then do the same at the Temple. Then most mornings I offer Mangal arotik, and this is such an absorbing, prayerful service. I love it!! When I am offering to everyone I am praying that they kindly accept the bhoga or the arotik article, and I think of some quality I can glorify in Them, and beg them for spiritual advancement, taste, and prema.

For instance, I offer to the full Panca-tattva, and I think of the mercy of Lord Chaitanya and pray to assist him in delivering the fallen souls, then with Nityananda: I know he delivered the most fallen, and though I not the most anything, I am terribly, and pathetically insignificant, so I ask him to please deliver me, and let me assist Prabhupada whom he empowered. Then Sri Advaita: by his worship and prayers, Lord Chaitanya appeared, so I pray that he pray for me, that Sri Gaura-Nitai take residence in my heart----let my heart be pure enough for that. Then Sri Gadadhara, who is Radha: I have more to think of here, but for now I am praying that as he recited the Bhagavatam for Lord Chaitanya, that I be impowered to speak it such that the Lord will appear on my tongue and heart, and the audience will be blessed. Then Srivas Pandit, who is Narada Muni. He was such a devotee that Lord Chaitanya and his devotees would assemble there for his "prema kirtanas", so I pray that my home will have such kirtanas, and that when Swami visits here, he will be so enlivened by the spiritual atmosphere that he won't want to leave..........(Sorry Audaryites )

Anyway I simply pray to be absorbed in KC, and to be free of material qualites. When I offer food, I first ask permission from Prabhupada and my Gurus to offer, then I pray to them and Sudarshan Chakra that the offering will be purified of all contamination and fit for the Lord to take, and that Sudarshan will destroy my anarthas, and all my lust, anger, greed, enviousness, jealousy, the desire to lord it over the material world, desire to enjoy my material senses, my false ego, etc, and that my soul will awaken with its spiritual mind, intelligence and serving ego---in others words, let me be fit to serve you! I don't claim to know the siddhanta on proper prayer, but my experience in making these heartfelt prayers is that they start to become who you are....you become absorded in these things. Though I am a begger I aspire to be an absolute giver, here and now, now and forever.

Prayer means I am very lowly and need a lot of help. We have to ask for help to make advancement. Otherwise we can go on for years and years and get lost in mediocrity, and staleness, and just drag on. We have to realize how fallen we are and that the holy name and the mercy of our Gurus, the merciful Lords, and the association of advanced devotees is our only hope for deliverance.......and pray, pray and pray to not be complacent, but to take full advantage of all the wonderful practices of Krsna consciousness.

dasanudas Karnamrta

Bhrigu - February 17, 2006 9:57 am

Imagine that old editorial leading to a nice discussion on Tattvaviveka! Yes, I wasn't referring to our Swami there, and yes, it is a new variant of the Jesus-prayer, but I still like the idea. As Gauravani wrote, a prayer like that can help us realise our dependence on the Lord, and also our humble position. Personally, I am very poor at praying. I like reciting Sanskrit prayers by heart, but that often turns into a mechanical chore, something I just mutter while thinking about something else. On the other hand, free-flowing prayer can also drift away and lose their focus. I think I like ready prayers better (of course, you can pick and chose there also!). I like the thought that countless sadhakas have uttered the same words before. There is one wondeful prayer by Sanatana Goswami from his Krishna-lila-stava to Sri Caitanya that ends like this

... namas te dIna-dInam mAM kadAcit kiM smariSyasi?

..., I bow to you. Do you sometimes remember me, the most fallen?

I also like the prayers for asking forgiveness after puja, e.g.

pratijNA tava govinda na me bhaktaH pra.nazyati

iti saMsmRtya saMsmRtya prANAn saMdhArayAmy aham

Oh Govinda! Your promise [in the Gita] is that your devotee will never perish. Remembering this again and again, I am able to retain my life.

Karnamrita Das - February 17, 2006 11:55 am

Thanks for that Brighuji, yes free flowing prayer. To me this is what my spiritual life has become--A PRAYER, we know the maha mantra is a prayer, is THE prayer for us. Tadiya dasi, as far as "do we need any other prayer besides the maha-mantra and scriptural prayers?", in theory no, but practically we have to be the judge. My life has become alive because I intensely pray for mercy so I can really serve with love and no other motive. And I am reminded daily how far I am from that ideal, but just the act of praying, gives me hope and strength. I can look at my "stuff", at my material desires and old hankerings that are still there after so many years, and feel that with the help of Sri Guru and Gaura-Nityananda, I will pass through this. Everything is possible with Divine help, and it is available for the intensly praying and endeavoring to follow our path.

Swami talks about prayer on one CD: He says that when you pray, what comes to mind?----the problem. We can be in the middle of fervent prayers and then comes the thoughts of material enjoyment.....like an elephant bathing, and then throwing dust on itself. We have to keep trying, and not be discouraging. Like Prabhupada often said, "Just give this one life for Krsna."

When we lived in Baltimore we had a prayer/support group for about three years, and we created community there, and interestingly these are the devotees who have come to Swami. This was a once a week coming together for about 2 or 3 hours---it was hard to stop. We would recite invocation prayers from sripture, and affirmations we came up with. Next was kirtana, and I would read some different prayers from Scripture. Then we would go around the room and pray for our lives and families---spiritual and material well being---the local Temple, and planet etc. It was based more on a Christian model---but this is where we were at, and this we were being REAL!--- but I tell you it was very, very powerful, and uplifting. From my expereince I would just go within, and really be in touch with where I was at---warts and worse---and share that we everyone (as appropriate), and pray to work through what I need to, and to do and accomplish what we necessary to keep body and soul together in the context of making spiritual advancement. That in itself is very powerful. So often we don't really look at where we are truly at, and think we are on some higher level---this has had disastrous results!

After each devotee shared their prayers, we would all hold out our hands in blessing mode and say, "Let it be so", and make statements like: "If you so desire dear Lord" "This or something better." "May Krsna's will be done in this situation." We would also share what was going on in our lives.

So our personal free flow prayer, reciting scriptural prayers and praying with others.

I am pretty dull actually, but I have a little excitement about prayer, since I see practically the benefits. And I can't say enough about the prayers of Thakur Bhaktivinode, especially his Saranagati prayers. Wonderful. I am not surrendered, but I want to be, and pray to be, and his prayers are so inspiring. We have to find prayers we relate to and recite them. The Bhagavatam is full of incredible prayers that we can read.

Praying to be of service to the devotees,

dasanudas Karnam

Tadiya Dasi - February 22, 2006 12:33 pm

Wow, I did not expect to have so many replies! I truly appreciate everyone's reply --you've given me a lot to think about! Thank you for sharing your prayer-practises so openly.

(I wish I knew how to use the quote-feature...but since I don't know...I have to just go through your replies one by one... )

Karnamrita das, again, I can only say: Wow! You certainly have given vandanam a proper place in your sadhana. I like how you (and Bhrigu) phrased it, free flowing prayer. Your excitement about prayer is certainly contagious ! I like your idea of writing down your prayers. I sometimes write letters to Krishna in my journal, which is kind of like praying I suppose.

Bhrigu, I like the prayer you quoted:

namas te dIna-dInam mAM kadAcit kiM smariSyasi?

..., I bow to you. Do you sometimes remember me, the most fallen?

Babhru das, I like the C.S Lewis quote, especially the end:

I pray because I can't help myself. I pray because I'm helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time, waking and sleeping. It doesn't change God, it changes me.

I think this answers my question about do we need other prayers besides the Maha-mantra. We are helpless, lost and totally dependable of Krishna and His mercy. Prayer can help us to recognize and remember that. Prayer can also help us to enter into the proper mood for chanting. I like how Prabhupada instructed us to chant like a child, who cries for his mother.

Gauravani, thanks for sharing Guru Maharaja's instruction on the matter! I hadn't thought of it that way, that prayer from the heart is actually a part of the process of saranagati.

He emphasized that prayer is an act of the heart, exercising it out of its atrophied condition--especially during those times when the last thing we feel like doing is praying.

Good advice! Thank you for posting that link. I meet a lot of Christians in university as I have some classes together with those students, who are training to become priests. Now, I can discuss japa with them

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to share your experiences & realizations with me. It means a lot to me.

Guru-nistha Das - March 2, 2006 5:58 pm

I'm late again, but it was actually really helpful for me to have time to think about these things properly. It gave me new insight on the subject and also inspired me, so thanks a lot for posting this topic, Tadiya!

For me prayer is about cultivating sincerity. I mostly pray for inspiration and motivation to do my service as good as possible, so prayer is not only a plea, it's also a call for action. It's more than just asking for something and then just sitting around and waiting for that something to fall in my lap.

I didn't use to pray much at all before. I thought it was kind of pathetic actually, because it seemed like a way to avoid "getting your hands dirty" and just try harder. I guess Christianity also played a role in giving a really bad taste for the whole word "prayer" in my mental mouth because I had hard time relating to the sheepish mentality and spiritual laziness I thought I saw in them. I felt like they used prayer as an excuse to not do the practices, meditate, change your life and try to understand the truth.

My views have partially changed since then. I've come to realize that my own effort is not enough, but I need both, mercy and effort. And praying is an attempt to draw down mercy.

According to my understanding, bhakti proper means to be situated in a way that one has a constant connection to the infinite and continuously draws down mercy from that plane. So that must mean that real Vaishnavas are constantly in a prayerful mood.

I thought it was weird that some devotees had told you to not pray free-style, that it's somehow safer to use the standard prayers. For me praying is about expressing my will, aspiration and weaknesses sincerely in relation to the absolute, and I can't see how it would be harmful to anybody to know their will and spiritual need, and express it. Hm, maybe they are cautious about not creating some sahajiya tendencies and imagining themselves to have a direct "hot line" with Krsna or something. But if you are under the guidance of a real devotee, I'm sure s/he will notice that kind of stuff and set us straight. I think that free-style praying is extremely important in our sadhana because that's how we excercise our sincerity and sincerity draws down mercy and mercy is what bhakti is all about.

Another thing I thought about was the relationship between wonder and prayer. It's said in the shastra (don't ask where ) that the basis of rasa is wonder (adbhuta). When a devotee realizes the greatness of the infinite s/he feels wonder. And wonder makes you want to get down on your knees and praise the infinite, which is also a form of prayer. Like how Brahma for example spoke all those beautiful prayers in Brahma-Vimohana-lila after he had stolen Krsna's buddies and calves.

So if the basic ingredient of rasa is wonder-which inspires prayer-and real Vaishanvas are constantly tasting rasa, that must be another evidence that vaishnavas are constantly praying.

Another point that came to mind is that there are two different categories of prayer that Jiva Goswami points out in one of his Sandarbhas; the prayers at the stage of sadhana-bhakti and the prayers at the stage of bhava-bhakti. The former are in the mood of submission and the latter are in the mood of longing. I don't know much about this subject, so that's why I request that we talk more about this in this topic. Anybody?

Nanda-tanuja Dasa - March 2, 2006 8:49 pm

Submission prayer... For me it’s “I’m so fallen, please have mercy. I’m nobody, I’m smaller then speck of dust. I know I’m not qualified to even address you, not even ask for anything. But I have enough audacity to approach you anyway. Please keep me on the path, please guard me against failure, please let me serve your servants. Be my guide. Be my friend. I give up, I cannot do it on my own, I need your mercy, I need your help. This world is infinite and I’m very small, I’m lost without you. I know that you probably have a lot of things to do and my voice is very weak, but I’m drowning in this sea of bad attachments, I just came to the surface to scream and then I will disappear under water again. Please catch my hand! I’m envious like a poisonous snake, I cannot promise I will not bite -- it’s my nature, please forgive me. Please dance on my head like you did on black Kaliya serpent until I vomit blood... Save me from myself.” That’s how I feel.

Caitanya-daya Dd - March 3, 2006 12:57 pm

jaya nitai to everyone and to tadiya prabhu! i know i have been absent for a bit. Still reeling from being in the western world and trying to adjust.

everyone has had such beautiful things to about prayer in this thread. I know for myself, prayer is a big part of my life. Granted, i will never have the ability to freestyle beautiful verse-like prayers, but i think the most important is that it comes from the heart. if you think about it, a lot of great vaisnavas' and pure devotees' prayers were from the heart and not pre-constructed (e.g., queen kunti, residents of braj)

For me, prayer is about making a plea that is absent of false prestige/ego. Prayer is also something on the personal level and in my own vernacular. We all have a personal relationship with the lord, so i think it is fitting for me to pray the way i normally speak.

I also believe quoting others' prayers is fine, as long as you deeply feel it in your heart. If there's ever a universal prayer that is not my own and that i like to recite quite often is the serenity prayer (and i often add my own commentary or embellishments). And i always start it off personally addressing sri krsna himself: "krsna, grant me serenity to accept the things i cannot change (because i have a huge false ego), the courage to change the things i can (because i'm a scaredy cat), and the wisdom to know the difference (because i ignore my intelligence a LOT)." Those are three big things: serenity, courage, and wisdom. I know i sure need them!

I find that a lot of non-judeo-christian westerners who discuss prayer get a little "paranoid" about whether or not they're being too judeo-christian in their prayer tactics. If you look at all practices and faith, there is always some sort of kneeling or bowing involved. I came to this realisation (after a long time) when i was involved in a support group, and someone suggested to me that in my time of need, i get on my knees and pray to my Higher Power. it was initially a really distasteful suggestion to me and really reeked of christianity. But after a long time, i realised ... i kneel before gaura-nitai all the time!

Re submission prayer, again, i point to the serenity prayer. It works for me. Submission means giving up (or at least loosening up the reins on) my false ego, and often i will just call out the lord's name over and over along with just one of the lines.

Re longing prayer, i think bhaktivinoda thakura sums it best for me: kabe habe bolo se dinamar. When oh when WILL that day be mine?