Tattva-viveka
Assignment 12
Babhru Das - April 20, 2006 11:18 pm
Exploring the Ocean of The Nectar of Devotion
Assignment 12
Read Chapter 10 of The Nectar of Devotion, “Techniques of Hearing and Remembering.” The chapter covers verses 170-82 of the second wave of Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu’s Eastern Division. This chapter provides scriptural support for items 43-46 of the 64 angas of sadhana bhakti. This chapter also bears careful, active reading. As you make notes from your rereading of the chapter, as always, write down any questions that arise as you read, as well as any connections you see between anything you read and this chapter and other things you’ve read or heard, as well as your own experience in Krishna consciousness. Think about any questions you’d like to ask Srila Prabhupada if you had the chance, or what questions less-experienced devotees may ask you.
We may note a few things as we read and contemplate this chapter. First, under the heading “Hearing,” we find three ways to hear being discussed. The order given in Nectar of Devotion is different from that in Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu. In NoD the three ways of hearing are nama-sravana, hearing the Lord’s name (in the example from Garuda Purana); caritra-sravana, hearing about the Lord’s pastimes (in the example from the Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam); and gunadi-sravanam, hearing about the Lord’s transcendental qualities, etc. (in the example from the Twelfth Canto).
“Expecting the Lord’s Mercy” is a significant section worth considerable attention. This is a well-known verse from the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam:
tat te 'nukampam su-samiksamano
bhunjana evatma-kritam vipakam
hrid-vag-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te
jiveta yo mukti-pade sa daya-bhak
This verse is found in Lord Brahma’s prayers to Krishna after he stole the Lord’s friends and calves. (It was also discussed by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya after Sarvabhauma’s conversion to pure vaisnavism.) The verse gives us the hint that we can transform even suffering to an opportunity for sadhana-bhakti in two ways: 1) by accepting our suffering as the Lord’s mercy, understanding that our karma undoubtedly would merit greater suffering, and 2) repeatedly offering obeisances to the Lord within our minds. Srila Prabhupada has commented extensively on this verse.
“Remembrance” is defined as mentally establishing one’s relationship with the Lord in a general way, whereas “Meditation” connotes more specific, more intense (the word is dhyana) focus on the Lord’s form (rupa-dhyanam), on the Lord’s qualities (guna-dhyanam), on the Lord’s pastimes (krida-dhyanam), or on service to the Lord (seva-dhyanam).
Assignments
For yourself and/or for the group: We see at the end of the chapter how the brahmana felt inspired to meditate intensely on service to the Lord by hearing about this in the association of devotees. Take some time to reflect (in writing) on your experiences in this group. You could focus on the benefits of studying Krishna-conscious literatures in the association of other devotees (rather than alone), or on studying systematically (rather than sporadically or randomly)—or both. You may also reflect on your own struggles to develop a taste for hearing, and for studying these books. This is a project you could start now and work on from time to time as we progress through NoD. It could be in the form of prose or poetry, and you could feel free to share it with us at any time—or not at all.
Another thing you could do is to write about a time in your life when your spiritual progress was impeded by some obstacle(s). What did you learn from that experience? What are some effective and constructive ways to deal with impediments that arise from time to time?
Babhru Das - April 30, 2006 7:48 am
“Remembrance” is defined as mentally establishing one’s relationship with the Lord in a general way, whereas “Meditation” connotes more specific, more intense (the word is dhyana) focus on the Lord’s form (rupa-dhyanam), on the Lord’s qualities (guna-dhyanam), on the Lord’s pastimes (krida-dhyanam), or on service to the Lord (seva-dhyanam).
This question came up when we discussed this chapter here at our home in Hawaii: Is there some way the "remembrance" and "meditation" may correspond with sambandha and abhideya, respectively?
Another thing you could do is to write about a time in your life when your spiritual progress was impeded by some obstacle(s). What did you learn from that experience? What are some effective and constructive ways to deal with impediments that arise from time to time?
I can start this. When I moved into the Honolulu ISKCON center just before Gaura-Purnima in 1970, I found that I had a problem with the lack of privacy in the brahmachari ashram (even though there were only four of us and I had recently spent three years in the Navy). More than that, though, was that one of the other three brahmacharis was really irritating. I actually left the temple three times that year because I found this devotee hard to live with. Finally, I had to spend some serious time sorting through my priorities, and when I went back after the third "bloop," I was determined to tolerate anything I had to to become Krishna conscious. I remember having a conversation with my father after the 1973 Ratha-yatra in SF, in which he seemed freaked out by our lack of interest in sense gratification. I told him that it was all a matter of setting priorities.
Will anyone else play?
Bhrigu - April 30, 2006 2:44 pm
Will anyone else play?
I want to play with you, Babhruji!
I think that you have a point in making remembrance correspond to sambandha and meditation to abhidheya. The definition of remembrance is (BRS 1.2.175)
yathaa-kathañcin manasaa sambandha.h sm.rtir ucyate
"Any kind of mental connection [with Bhagavan] is known as 'remembrance'".
The word sambandha is even there in the verse! 
But seriously, the examples indicate that this is indeed a more general awareness of the greatness of the Lord, while meditation (dhyana) is su.s.thu cintanam, or "skilled contemplation" in Haberman's translation. The example of the South Indian Brahmin, from Jiva Goswami's commentary, then illustrates the point. So definately this is more about abhidheya.
One thing that I noticed while reading this chapter was its "oral nature", for the lack of a better word. Sentences beginning with "so..." etc made it clear that this is a text that Srila Prabhupada has spoken into his dictaphone and which then has been transcribed. I usually like the direct, intimate nature of Srila Prabhupada's books, but here I somehow found it sloppy. How do the native speakers feel about this?
Thank you for your story about obstacles, Babhru! One of my great obstacles has been (and still is!) the unwillingness to accept and understand change. One example: I lived as a brahmacari in the Helsinki temple for about a year 1992-1993, doing book distribution, but couldn't really fit in. I felt too constrained, especially mentally, and eventually "blooped" and moved back in with my parents. They were happy, but I wasn't. I never gave up chanting my rounds or the devotional principles, but I felt really useless and fallen, having tried to live what I perceived as a life of pure devotion but failed. It took some time before -- especially by the grace of Suhotra Prabhu -- I was made to realise that I wasn't useless even though I didn't distribute books anymore, and that Krishna perhaps wanted me to do other things. After some time, I realised that leaving the temple had in my case actually been a good thing.
Babhru Das - April 30, 2006 9:47 pm
One thing that I noticed while reading this chapter was its "oral nature", for the lack of a better word. Sentences beginning with "so..." etc made it clear that this is a text that Srila Prabhupada has spoken into his dictaphone and which then has been transcribed. I usually like the direct, intimate nature of Srila Prabhupada's books, but here I somehow found it sloppy. How do the native speakers feel about this?
I'll have to reread the chapter to see if I get the same feeling. This was probably edited in '69 and very early '70. I'm just really used to Srila Prabhupada's style, to the extent that it's a style, and I probably didn't notice anything unusual about this chapter. I often read things and think how I'd like to re-edit, sometimes even rewrite, a phrase, a sentence, or a paragraph.
Thank you for your story about obstacles, Babhru! One of my great obstacles has been (and still is!) the unwillingness to accept and understand change. One example: I lived as a brahmacari in the Helsinki temple for about a year 1992-1993, doing book distribution, but couldn't really fit in. I felt too constrained, especially mentally, and eventually "blooped" and moved back in with my parents. They were happy, but I wasn't. I never gave up chanting my rounds or the devotional principles, but I felt really useless and fallen, having tried to live what I perceived as a life of pure devotion but failed. It took some time before -- especially by the grace of Suhotra Prabhu -- I was made to realise that I wasn't useless even though I didn't distribute books anymore, and that Krishna perhaps wanted me to do other things. After some time, I realised that leaving the temple had in my case actually been a good thing.
It is the grace of devotees that helps us overcome obstacles, for sure. I remember that, back in 1970, it was the kindness of Goursundar and Govinda dasi that made it easier for me to overcome this one problem. When I first lived in the temple, Goursundar gave me a set of big, red beads to chant on. When I left, I left the beads with him. It was many years later that I realized these were his initiation beads. He and Govinda dasi always encouraged me to keep trying. Govinda seemed particularly loathe to let me give up, and she always had some trick up her sleeve to keep me close to the temple, if not in it. (She's still a dear friend, even though we don't agree on some things.) That also reminds me of Swami's remark that Mahaprabhu almost interferes with our free will.
Swami - April 30, 2006 10:39 pm
He and Govinda dasi always encouraged me to keep trying. Govinda seemed particularly loathe to let me give up, and she always had some trick up her sleeve to keep me close to the temple, if not in it. (She's still a dear friend, even though we don't agree on some things.) That also reminds me of Swami's remark that Mahaprabhu almost interferes with our free will.
"Like a tree in the meadow wind,
he will bend to take you in.
Makes no difference where you've been.
That's the way he feels about you."
—someone
Rebekah - May 1, 2006 5:23 pm
"Like a tree in the meadow wind,
he will bend to take you in.
Makes no difference where you've been.
That's the way he feels about you."
—someone
Dan Fogelburg has that song on his album "No Resemblence Whatsoever" Name of the song is called "Sunlight".....he is actually "she" according to the lyrics I found.....kinda caught my eye, so I thought I would check into it and share. Maybe it's trivial the origins of the song, but there it is. Better title for the album in a perfect world would have been "No Resistance Whatsoever"
Babhru Das - May 1, 2006 5:59 pm
I think it was adapted from an old Three Dog Night song. Whatever the case, I found its application here very encouraging. I know I'm in the right company.
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - May 1, 2006 9:35 pm
I would like to put a little twist on the conversation. I would like to talk about hearing (or any other sensual input) as of process of consumption, digestion and absorption of subtle energy and effect it has on linga-sarira (subtle body) as food has on our gross material body. The impressions that we get from pop-culture are having much more damaging and longer lasting effect on our psyche then fast food on our stomach. In another hand complete stopping of consumption of pop-culture products may not be possible from social perspective. I did cut my intake tremendously, but sometimes it feels that it's not enough and I know that I get "food poisoning" quite often. How to find the right balance? Any suggestions?
Babhru Das - May 1, 2006 10:48 pm
Whoa! This is an interesting direction here, and I think quite relevant. Nanda-tanuja, could you post to one of the other forums, too (maybe with a link back here) so those who don't come to the Classroom may participate, too?
Robertnewman - May 2, 2006 1:42 am
As with everything else, I think the effect of pop culture on our consciousness very much depends on the attitude which we take toward it. If we approach it for sense gratification, it will likely wreak havoc. On the other hand, if we try to view it through the lens of Krsna consciousness, it can even assist our progress. In this way I have often received insight and inspiration from the most unlikely sources.
Swami - May 2, 2006 3:27 am
I think it was adapted from an old Three Dog Night song. Whatever the case, I found its application here very encouraging. I know I'm in the right company.
Jesse Colin Young
Rebekah - May 2, 2006 12:14 pm
Jesse Colin Young
I just think it's really sweet how something so high can manage and has a willingness to stoop to our level of consciousness in order that we can get that kind of inspiration, even if it stems from something that has been generated on the material platform and is based on sentimentalism....possibly. In my case anyway. I'm a sucker for good song lyrics/poetry....writing in general. I hope I am making sense.
Madangopal - May 2, 2006 12:49 pm
A few thoughts I have about this topic:
As one becomes more absorbed in Krsna Consciousness, the material world facilitates further absorption. Everything speaks of Krsna to one who has developed his/her higher taste and therefore we hear the prayers and realizations of such devotees that "the environment is friendly" one sees the "whole world as a happy place" (I'm thinking of a prayer by Prabhodananda?), etc. The idea being that an advanced soul is not running from the world, trying to block all of the senses to keep too much maya from getting in.
So how to get to that level?
There is certainly something to be said for restricting one's sense objects, but I question whether we should be absorbed in this more than absorption in our positive goal, making Krsna the objective of our senses.
In my own life I have seen that the more I am absorbed in fighting off maya, renouncing, pushing it all away, the less I am absorbed in Krsna, which I thought was the goal. I have come to have more faith in what I would call positive renunciation rather than negative. Positive renunciation to me is hearing, chanting, etc - Krsna Consciousness that I am letting into my life. I find that if I do that, the things I am trying to renounce lose their attraction without the effort it takes to fight them off on my own. It's about consciousness changing, not environment changing.
Applying this type of thinking to pop culture, I think that the more it is made a fight, the more we will be present and conscious of it. Whereas if we cultivate our bhakti in an environment that is steeped in maya, that same world will appear friendly, it will facilitate our service. We will see the Krsna Consciousness behind pop culture messages that not even the performer was aware of!
Rebekah - May 2, 2006 12:58 pm
A few thoughts I have about this topic:
As one becomes more absorbed in Krsna Consciousness, the material world facilitates further absorption. Everything speaks of Krsna to one who has developed his/her higher taste and therefore we hear the prayers and realizations of such devotees that "the environment is friendly" one sees the "whole world as a happy place" (I'm thinking of a prayer by Prabhodananda?), etc. The idea being that an advanced soul is not running from the world, trying to block all of the senses to keep too much maya from getting in.
So how to get to that level?
There is certainly something to be said for restricting one's sense objects, but I question whether we should be absorbed in this more than absorption in our positive goal, making Krsna the objective of our senses.
In my own life I have seen that the more I am absorbed in fighting off maya, renouncing, pushing it all away, the less I am absorbed in Krsna, which I thought was the goal. I have come to have more faith in what I would call positive renunciation rather than negative. Positive renunciation to me is hearing, chanting, etc - Krsna Consciousness that I am letting into my life. I find that if I do that, the things I am trying to renounce lose their attraction without the effort it takes to fight them off on my own. It's about consciousness changing, not environment changing.
Applying this type of thinking to pop culture, I think that the more it is made a fight, the more we will be present and conscious of it. Whereas if we cultivate our bhakti in an environment that is steeped in maya, that same world will appear friendly, it will facilitate our service. We will see the Krsna Consciousness behind pop culture messages that not even the performer was aware of!
Rebekah - May 2, 2006 1:28 pm
Opps sorry about that up there... Anyway...after this I think I should probably go chant my rounds for the day before I take this too far. Look forward to seeing everyone at the festival. In the event that I have made a fool of myself, as I often do....please try to overlook it.
Jim Churchill - May 2, 2006 5:33 pm
In my own life I have seen that the more I am absorbed in fighting off maya, renouncing, pushing it all away, the less I am absorbed in Krsna, which I thought was the goal. I have come to have more faith in what I would call positive renunciation rather than negative. Positive renunciation to me is hearing, chanting, etc - Krsna Consciousness that I am letting into my life. I find that if I do that, the things I am trying to renounce lose their attraction without the effort it takes to fight them off on my own. It's about consciousness changing, not environment changing.
I was thinking of why Krishna Consciousness was/is so attractive to me. I remember being told and reading about Srila Prabhupada saying something like "don't give things up, just add these new things (chanting, kirtan, prasadam...) and you will gradually lose a taste for the material things." I too know many people who seem to want to run away from it all and not get "infected" by the material world. I personally cannot do this due to my pursuit to provide for my family (ie. job) and have seen in this short time that certain places and people are very hard for me to deal with because of the lowly state that I am in right now - I mean, my surroundings often distract me from the path. I try to remind myself of this and avoid exposure to certain "elements" when possible but I do recognize and agree with Madan Gopal in that "it's not about the environment changing - it's about my consciousness changing"
Thank you for reminding me of this and sorry to Nandatanuja for not using this space to directly answer the question at hand.
Jim
Hari Bhakti - May 2, 2006 6:05 pm
Great topic, thanks Nanda-tanuja.
Many of the things that come along with the householder life often make me feel out of balance in my pursuit of serving Guru and Gauranga. It is not all sanga cd's/devotional music all day long at my house, I am often found listening to NPR amongst other things. Here is how I personally think about it. Knowing that first I am a representative of my Gurudev and member of his spiritual community, then I am also a member of my neighborhood, city, state, country - world community (ok, maybe that's a bit far - but you catch my drift). Knowing what is going on in the all of these communities can actually help me be a better representative of my Guru, who is after all the great harmonizer.
I come in contact with many people and can relate them in a comfortable way (we can talk about what is happening in Darfur or the latest indie rock cd), these people will also see that I have a spiritual life and in this way Gaudiya Vaisnavism doesn't seem so strange and unapproachable to the average person, this is my attempt to harmonize what seems to be two opposing things.
Now I can not say that my involvement in pop culture is solely so I can preach, I do find some interest in these thing. But if I can put the information to good use along the way it can not all be pollution - can it?
I would love to hear others perspectives on this topic.
Babhru Das - May 2, 2006 6:40 pm
Jesse Colin Young
Oh, yeah--the Youngbloods. He lives on this island, I believe, over on the Kona side, and I've seen ads for performances regularly over the years.
Babhru Das - May 2, 2006 7:16 pm
This topic Nanda-tanuja brings in is rich, interesting, and thought provoking. I certainly agree with the comments that we should be more interested in changing our consciousness than our environment, but the two are not completely divorced. And the situation will be different for different devotees. I remember hearing in my early days about Brahmananda going through Goursundar's comic-book (graphic novel) collection in the early days in San Francisco. Goursundar had kept them to provide ideas for his art. Brahmananda got lost in reading them and really distracted. Srila Prabhupada noted that one man's food was another's poison.
I have often talked about the importance of reflection, of introspection. I think it's important for all of us to be aware of our environment and its effect on us, just as we should be aware of the food we eat and its effects. Those of us who have to work for a living (well, those who are able . . .) will naturally interact with the world differently from monastics, doe example, but we shouldn't let ourselves become complacent. The sound we subject ourselves to has effects. Dr. Masaru Emoto has made this case in rather interesting ways. So I think that, for example, watching a lot of crime shows on TV or violent movies is likely to have an effect on our consciousness. Listening to different kinds of music effects us differently, just as our minds are soothed by the sound of a stream but agitated by the sound of traffic, although they may superficially be somewhat similar. WE feel different after listening to Barber's "Adagio for Strings" than after listening to one of Eminem's rants. (And don't get me wrong--I've listened to enough Eminem to know that he's a very good writer and performer whose act is simply despicable.)
And I can tell you from experience that the things we listen to, especially repeatedly, stay with us for a long, long time. When I was a brahamachari I used to lament the blues and folk songs that would pop up in my head. For example, the juniper tree in the temple yard would sometimes trigger Joan Baez singing "Copper Kettle" while I was working on the yard, growing roses--or Tulasi. More recently, I found old "tapes," as I used to call them, still intact. As I pulled into Jagaddhatri's house a couple of weeks ago to see our old friends Balabhadra and Chaya devi, my wife and I had NPR's "All Things Considered," a news show, on the radio. Sounds innocent enough so far, right? Just as we pulled in, they ran one of their underwriter messages, this one from Pabst Brewing Company. As we got out of the car, I heard in my head the old jingle from my boyhood. Those of you who are old enough are probably sorry I even mention it. Now,I can't remember when I last heard this jingle on TV. It may even have been the early '60s. And I don't know if the even sell Pabst here. But that jingle was there.
What's the big deal, you ask? Maybe nothing. But I know that at my age and my stage of life, I should be immersing myself more, if not exclusively, in Hari kirtan and Hari katha, so those memories come up easily. For years, I explored popular culture deliberately, along with my students. It was the core of one of the courses I taught for many years, a second-semester composition course that teaches critical thinking and research writing. I focused the course on semiotic analysis of American popular culture and TV's place in the culture. The idea was to get students to write about what they knew, but in a way that should ciritically examine what they generally took for granted. I like to shake things up a little, and the course had two guiding principles, as far as analysis goes: everything's connected, and we should take nothing for granted. So I read a lot of stuff, watched movies and television deliberately, listened to music I might otherwise have avoided, so I could keep up with the kinds of things I asked my students to write about. Spiritually, I would rather have spent my time otherwise, but I had a strong enough sadhana and good enough association that I didn't suffer too much from this. It was, after all, part of my work. Now, however, I find I have little patience for much of the same sort of thing. My priorities are different, I suppose. It's time for me to change things drastically, but not to run away from anything, but toward Krishna.
Could Madan-gopal adopt the attitude I have today? Only if he decided to become a subsitence farmer whose life revolves around his crops and Sri Murti. If he wants to engage with the world in other ways, he needs to know what's going on, be able to interact with others. And even for myself, as I withdraw from earning to more intense sadhana and preaching, I would probably still stay in touch with the culture to some degree so my preaching could be more relevant. And in doing so, I'd feel protected by the Lord and my gurus, safe in my service to them, secure in my understanding that the environment is friendly.
Oh--this has grown much too long, and I have far too much to get done today. Later!
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - May 2, 2006 10:39 pm
What a delightful reply! Thank you, Babhru, your thoughts are quite similar to mine. Examples such as aromatherapy, psychology of color, use of yantras for meditation, reciting mantras, taking prasadam, etc. show us that sensual input can have tremendous positive or negative effects on our sthula-sarira and linga-sarira. Attitude which we take toward sensual input might be important, but drinking poison and thinking of it as being nectar will not save you from dying. You might argue that advanced soul transcends tree modes of nature thus because he functions under jurisdiction of svarupa-sakti sensual input is irrelevant. True, but Sri Chaitanya's personal secretary, Svarupa Damodara, was filtering what Mahaprabhu was allowed to read or to listen to foster his bhava. I know from personal experience that some forms of entertainment have a very deep damaging effect on me. I've completely stopped playing computer games and watch horror/action movies, for example, because they foster my animalistic side, they change my mood, my behavior. It's like a snack which you just cannot put down until bag is empty -- easy to eat, but gives you indigestion later. I'm not being paranoid here, people who know me personally know that I'm pretty balanced person, but we are living in consumer oriented society, multimedia surrounds us, at work, at home, while you drive in the car. All I'm saying is that we are getting fed bad things, sometimes it's right in your face like "Hostel" and sometimes more subtle like a jingle. In another hand you cannot be a total recluse, so balancing a healthy ration is in order. More difficult to do then to say though...
Rebekah - May 3, 2006 2:46 am
Yes, this is very thought provoking...alot to chew on. I feel fortunate (kind of...but not really all the time) that material life gets to be tasteless after a while...but then I have no attraction....well very little attraction to Krsna. Sometimes it feels like I just hang on for the sake of my own sanity. So what's up with that? Inherant selfishness....? It's like I've just been in limbo lately. I keep teeter tottering back and forth....senses totally out of control for the most part. Anyway...I'm not going to sweat myself too hard over it, because that just stresses me out.
Although it may not be appropriate....I have to say Eminem isnt that great either by comparision to Saul Williams, Eyedea and Abilities, Sage Frances, Non-Prophets.....that's where it's at....stay away from that....major damage 
But I guess that isnt what you would call "pop" culture. Sorry....I just feel compelled to spit that out there. I don't mean to be offensive if I am comming across that way. Just myself.
Bhrigu - May 3, 2006 6:37 am
Thank you Nandatanujaji for starting this topic! I think it is extremely important. I am personally very fond of literature, music and art and try to follow what's happening politically, socially etc in the world. A small part of this is because I feel I need to know some of these things to stay relevant, but mostly it is just because I am so materially attached. Sometimes reading a good novel is to me more palatable than reading the Bhagavatam. But when I do make the effort to leave such reading and focus just on KC texts, as I have for the last few weeks, I can immediately see a change in my consciousness. I've been reading the Tenth Canto with Srila Visvanatha Cakravartipada's commentary every evening recently, and often find myself thinking of what I've read during the days. It is very nice -- but I know that I'll forget it again when another interesting mundane book comes my way. So I second Babhru's point about not being complacent in this regard, and will try to follow it in practice as well!
Babhru Das - May 10, 2006 8:29 pm
It has been a week since the last activity here, so I'll go ahead and post Assignment 13 soon. That doesn't mean, however, that we're necessarily finished with this thread. If anyone has any thoughts on any of the things we've discussed, or any other topics inspired by anything having to do with Ch. 10, please feel free to post them here. The classroom is always open!