So according to krishna devotee's beliefs, when did we become vegetarian?
Did it start that way or did we become veg later through evolution?
Do devotees concur with the anthropological view that we shifted from hunter gatherer civilization to agricultural?
So according to krishna devotee's beliefs, when did we become vegetarian?
Did it start that way or did we become veg later through evolution?
Do devotees concur with the anthropological view that we shifted from hunter gatherer civilization to agricultural?
According to Krsna He says Offer me with love and devotion a fuit leaf flower or water and I will accept it.
So with this all we do is offer Krsna what he wants.
It would be as He wants not through evolution.
In the Gita there are 4 stages of societal development discribed: basic hunter gather, economic development, sense gratification, and then spiritual development. Most civializations destroy themselves getting to spiritual development and I believe that is why Krsna conciousness is as it is and we fall from grace once again trapped in the material world of sumsara.
So according to krishna devotee's beliefs, when did we become vegetarian?
According to history as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam, devolution has taken place as opposed to evolution. In previous ages, particulary Satya-yuga, mankind is described as being santa nirvairah suhrdah which means peaceful, free from envy and friendly to all creatures (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.5.22).
As time moves forward these qualities become less prevalent. The nature of material energy is that things gradually deteriorate. Currently, our age is called Kali-yuga, and mankind is describe as umanda-matayo
manda-bhagya hy upadrutah: lazy, misguided, unlucky and always disturbed (SB 1.1.10).
As mankind becomes increasingly forgetful of God and the principles of virtuous life, sense gratification becomes a priority. Hence, meat-eating has become the norm in our current time.
Thomas Henry Huxley's "Man's Place in Nature" presents some biological evidence for the fact that mankind has not always eaten meat:
1. Flesh eaters have very short bowels for rapid expulsion of putrefactive bacteria. Vegetarians, including man, have very long bowels for dealing with the fermentative bacteria which is involved in the digestion of vegetarian foods.
2. Flesh eaters have long teeth and in many cases have retractable claws for killing and holding prey, whereas vegetarians have sabre-like teeth and claws, though some may have defensive horns.
3. Meat eaters have jaws which open only in an up and down motion while vegetarians have jaws which can move sideways for chewing.
4. Flesh eaters do not sweat, but control body heat by extruding the tongue and rapid breathing. Vegetarians have sweat pores for heat control and elimination of impurities.
5. Flesh eaters' saliva is without ptylin and therefore cannot pre-digest starches. Vegetarians have ptylin in the saliva for this pre-digestive process.
6. Flesh-eaters secrete ten times more hydrochloric acid than vegetarians, sufficient to dissolve bones in the diet.
7. Flesh eaters lap water, whereas vegetarians take liquids by suction.
8. Flesh eaters have a consistent tooth configuration, especially with distended canine teeth, as in the example of the cat, whereas vegetarians have short canine teeth, not suitable for tearing flesh.
In the Gita there are 4 stages of societal development discribed: basic hunter gather, economic development, sense gratification, and then spiritual development. Most civializations destroy themselves getting to spiritual development and I believe that is why Krsna conciousness is as it is and we fall from grace once again trapped in the material world of sumsara.
Bijaya, where is there such a description of societal development in the Gita?
And what do you mean with the latter sentence?
Did it start that way or did we become veg later through evolution?
Do devotees concur with the anthropological view that we shifted from hunter gatherer civilization to agricultural?
I don't have the time, but someone could expand upon Guru Maharaj's comments lately about evolution of consciousness. I for one really appreciate how he synthesizes the darwinist outlook with spiritual evolution. Vyasa Puja lecture he spoke about this a lot.
Yes, as consciousness evolution develops we moved to an agrarian based civilization. The current trend away from agrarian civilization indicates a devolutionary process.
Bijaya, where is there such a description of societal development in the Gita?
And what do you mean with the latter sentence?
BG 4.13 sudras mostly hunter gathers, mercantile mostly economic developers, kshatryias mostly sense gratifiers, and brahman mostly spritual in nature. His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta took us melechas from the sudra class and made most brahmans and he wanted all of society to be saved by coming to there full potential this life.
Time and time again history shows that the evolution of man has reached an apex and was distroyed ie Roman empire, English empire etcetra.
devolutionary process.
I agree there is a lot of relevance here.
I had a discussion with the late Sri Rama and there is proof of both evolution and devolution supported by scientific evidence giving some relevance to the big bang theroy and the story of creation in most religious literature.
We seem to be expanding as well as contracting through out the ages.
Guru Maharajas god brother Satyaputa (Richard L. Thompson) put together some information in Mysteries of the Sacred Universe The Cosmology of the Bhagavat Purana .
Bijaya, you imply that humanity progresses via evolutionary process from sudras to vaishyas to kshatryias to brahmanas. But all varnas always exist simultaneously! You cannot have civilization which consists only of brahmanas -- who will swipe streets and who will make clothes? All members of society progress and realize divine in its place as sudra or brahmana, doesn’t matter.
BG 4.13 sudras mostly hunter gathers, mercantile mostly economic developers, kshatryias mostly sense gratifiers, and brahman mostly spritual in nature.
Time and time again history shows that the evolution of man has reached an apex and was distroyed ie Roman empire, English empire etcetra.
I don't think sudras could be called hunter gatherers, because they had a place in the society, where as hunter gatherers are "wild" people. Maybe the outcasts were more like huntergatherers, at least some of them?
Also, kshatriyas are said to be in the mode of passion, whereas sense gratifiers would be in the mode of ignorance.
You mentioned the ROman and the Brittish empires as evidence that civilizations reach and apex of evolution and then are destroyed. But in the first post you said that the last stage of this evolution is spirituality. The Roman and Brittish empires were definitely not spiritual, whereas the culture of India which used to be a spiritually oriented civilization has lasted longer than any other civilization.
I'm sorry, this went off the topic and Bijay, I don't want to make this seem like a personal attack, I just wanted to clear things up. If I seem to have misundersood something, please feel free to correct me.
Bijaya, you imply that humanity progresses via evolutionary process from sudras to vaishyas to kshatryias to brahmanas. But all varnas always exist simultaneously! You cannot have civilization which consists only of brahmanas -- who will swipe streets and who will make clothes? All members of society progress and realize divine in its place as sudra or brahmana, doesn’t matter.
exist simultaneously! This is correct but we are in the material world and until that original Krsna concious process is awakened by Grace of a vaisnava your conclusion does not follow and it does matter.
The purport suggests that it is an evolutionary process..
I don't think sudras could be called hunter gatherers, because they had a place in the society, where as hunter gatherers are "wild" people. Maybe the outcasts were more like huntergatherers, at least some of them?
Also, kshatriyas are said to be in the mode of passion, whereas sense gratifiers would be in the mode of ignorance.
You mentioned the ROman and the Brittish empires as evidence that civilizations reach and apex of evolution and then are destroyed. But in the first post you said that the last stage of this evolution is spirituality. The Roman and Brittish empires were definitely not spiritual, whereas the culture of India which used to be a spiritually oriented civilization has lasted longer than any other civilization.
I'm sorry, this went off the topic and Bijay, I don't want to make this seem like a personal attack, I just wanted to clear things up. If I seem to have misundersood something, please feel free to correct me.
Your not off the topic and no malice taken.
It does not matter what you or I think it is as it is and Krsna says there are only 4 material divisions of society and those of the lower class are sudra.
Passion is the mode of sense gratification and if you read the 5th canto kshatriyas are allowed certain discretions because of their class.
The Roman and Brittish civilizations were destroyed precisley because they could not bridge the gap to spirituallity although the Romans had Plato and the British had others.
The Srimada Bhagavatam discuss how transmigration takes place and His Divine Grace talks about how people come back to fullfill there desires ie philanthropist, phylosophers etectra.
So according to krishna devotee's beliefs, when did we become vegetarian?
Did it start that way or did we become veg later through evolution?
Do devotees concur with the anthropological view that we shifted from hunter gatherer civilization to agricultural?
Vegetarianism is no doubt the diet of a more evolved human species, in as much as humans for the most part concurr that the most evolved person is the knindest person. Kindness also implies greater complexity.
So the question is when the rest of humanity will become vegetarian.
When did humans start to become kinder? The scriptural understadning is that the world itself ultimately has no beginning. That is, it begins and ends and then begins and ends again, ad infunitum with no first beginning. So from this point of view there have always been human vegetarians. Just when human vegetarianism begins in any given world cycle is hard to say, but in general it is safe to conclude that when a human being shifts from hunting and gathering to agricultural pursuit, he or she is evolving. Agriculture requires more intelligence than hunting and gathering. If this intelligence is joined with spiritual guidance, humans can realize their highest potential and create an environement that fosters kindness. However, if human intellect is not spiritually guided, human intelligence can lead to the meaner society than that of hunters and gatherers.
As far as I understand it, anthropology begins from the premis that consciousness evolves from matter. We would disqagree with this premis and assert that matter has its origins in consciousness and that consciousness itself is life and life comes from life.