Tattva-viveka
non-sectarianism and vaisnava aparadha(an excerpt)
Vivek - July 11, 2006 2:48 pm
Haribol,
I don't think I am qualified to say that but sometimes we can get carried out in criticizing ISKCON forgetting that, as Tripurari Maharaja said, there are some very nice devotees in ISKCON who are sincerely trying to practise focusing just on krsna and not on other sectarian concerns. So in course of arguments and counter arguments we ourself may get implicated in vaisnava aparadha. Obviously the siddhanta should be clear, but we should avoid unnecessary arguments. Only with sincere intentions the arguments should be made, not in a egocentric way. Like we say always hate the sin not the sinner.
Also I had a excerpt from a lecture given by H.H radhanath Swami talking about non-sectarianism which is useful for developing respects for other people under other spiritual masters. Also i have put some quotes by BSST which are very good.
(His Holiness Radhanatha Swami, Mumbai, December 2000)
We Should not Expect Everyone to be Like Me
Within Srila Prabhupada's society everyone is meant to share
Prabhupada's message. Therefore, however many initiating or
instructing spiritual masters there may be, and however many
disciples may be following them, the aim is very much one. And
maturity is to see that. That we are all brothers and sisters. And we
should not be sectarian. Because we may see that somebody else's
faith is more in someone else, you may have more faith in someone.
They may have more faith in someone. Your faith should not disturb
them and their faith should not disturb you. We should understand
that Krsna is attracting different people's hearts in different ways.
We should not expect everyone to be like me. And when we are dealing
with other gaudiya vaisnavas also, even outside of ISKCON. We should
understand if somebody has faith in their guru, we should respect and
honor and encourage that. We shouldn't think it as a challenge,
because they have a different faith than me. If they are challenging
your faith, if they are attacking your faith, then you have to keep a
distance.
But if we are understanding etiquette properly, we should not be
confused by other people having a different type of faith than
ourselves. They are brothers, they are sisters. That's very, very
important. We should not be so egoistic and self-centred to think
that everyone has to have my faith and if somebody doesn't have my
faith that means they are a dangerous enemy to me.
The tendency of neophyte devotees is because we want to be God, we
want to be great. Therefore, whatever we are connected to we want to
feel that we are the greatest. My guru is the greatest. My line is
the greatest. There is always competition. This is a material
conception.
To you, he might be the greatest, but to someone else, someone else
might be the greatest. Krsna is the greatest. But He may be revealing
Himself to different people in different ways and different times. So
we should honour and respect Krsna how He is manifesting Himself to
different people in different ways.
You see, when we are thinking about Srila Prabhupada, it is not that
we have to be convinced that he is the ultimate, greatest and no one
is equal to or better than him, otherwise how would we have faith and
follow him. What we do know is, he saved us and therefore our
loyalty, our faith and our devotion to him is for eternity - without
second thought.
If someone is as spiritually advanced as him or if someone else is
more philosophical than him, that doesn't make any difference,
whether they are or not. It makes no difference. He is bringing me
back to Godhead and I will remain faithful to him. Some people
think that they have to prove it, he is the greatest, he is superior
and push down everybody else, but somebody from another math is going
to think that their guru is the greatest. Then we will say, well he
did not spread Krsna consciousness all over the world!
It is not our right to start talking to them like that. They may have
the reasons that they have for having faith. Ultimately, they have
faith because that person saved them! And we have faith because
Prabhupad saved us! Either directly or through his personal energies.
Therefore, there is no competition. There is no conception of this.
If somebody else is praising their guru, very, very nice. Wonderful!
If somebody is saying how their guru has done this for Bhaktisidhanta
Sarasvati and that, that is very wonderful! It is not a challenge to
our faith in Prabhupada. It is not a competition. We don't have to be
little and prove that we are better. In our heart Prabhupada is best
and he will always be best. In their heart something else. I offer
respect to the faith that Prabhupada has given me and I offer all
respect to the faith that their gurus had given them. Then there can
be unity.
For as long as there is this canvassing mentality: My guru is better
than yours. My guru is a mahabhagavat, your guru is not mahabhagavat.
As long as that mentality is there, it is just a lack of etiquette
and immaturity. We should respect the faith of other Vaishnavas. And
they should respect our faith as well. If we don't have to prove
anything to anyone.
If our faith is so weak that we have to prove that my guru is better
than all other gurus, then we don't understand guru tattva at all.
Guru is Krsna. He is manifesting Himself in many ways, through many
people. And our faith is in that principle. Through guru Krsna comes
down to this material world to embrace the conditioned souls and
bring them back to Godhead. So we should respect and honor that
principle. Srimad Bhagavatam ki! Jaya! Thank you very much.
"Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been
arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a
sectarian concern, for when we speak of the
fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we
speak of something that is of universal application.
There does not arise any question of discrirninating
my guru from yours or anyone else's."
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura - The
Harmonist 1936
"Preaching without proper conduct falls within the
category of karma, mundane activity. Without
crticizing the nature of others, one should correct
one's self--this is my personal instruction."
The Upadesavali of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati
Thakura Prabhupada
"When faults in other misguide and delude you -- have
patience, introspect, find faults in yourself. Know
that others cannot harm you unless you harm yourself."
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, discourse in
Dhaka, Bangladesh, 1935
Vivek - July 11, 2006 3:56 pm
I would request devotees and Tripurari Maharaja to reply or comment on this posting i put so that i can grasp whether my understanding of sectarianism is correct or not.
your servant
Vivek
Gauravani Dasa - July 11, 2006 4:25 pm
I asked a similar question here: http://tattvaviveka.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=455
Some of your questions may be answered in that thread. If not, please let us know 
Nanda-tanuja Dasa - July 11, 2006 4:33 pm
I offer respect to the faith that Prabhupada has given me and I offer all respect to the faith that their gurus had given them. Then there can be unity.
What a wonderful article! Thank you for sharing it!
Vrindaranya Dasi - July 11, 2006 9:40 pm
Dear Vivek,
Thank you for bringing up this important issue. I look forward to hearing the different perspectives on it. First of all, I wanted to say that I really liked Radhanatha Maharaja’s article and I agree with all of the points. Fanaticism among groups has really gotten to a critical level in the Gaudiya Saraswat lineage, and he gave excellent suggestions for overcoming this.
I wasn’t entirely clear, however, in which way the article related to the current discussions on Tattva-viveka. To me the article spoke more of people who criticize others simply based on their faith, i.e. if you don’t have faith in the same guru as me then you are wrong. Therefore I wondered whether you may be applying the principles of the lecture too broadly. Personally, I see the current discussion on Tattva-viveka as an exercise of sastra-yukti in relation to current Vaisnava controversies, not an attempt to criticize others in order to glorify ourselves. However, I’m actually not clear whether you objected to only certain posts or the discussion as a whole. Perhaps you could clarify.
Personally, I think it is valuable to discuss Vaisnava controversies in order to refine our understanding of the underlying philosophical issues and other issues related to the practice of devotion. However, there is always the danger of judgment and generalization. This can be an easy mistake to make, and hopefully such transgressions will be pointed out so that we can adjust our thinking.
I think the quotes of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur referred to fault-finding of a more personal sort--people's nature, intentions, and personal shortcomings--rather than discouraging the debating of policies and ideas. I base this on the fact that he critiqued and preached against so many misconceptions of other Gaudiya groups. Practically he preached against every other Gaudiya group.
Other than that, I think it should also be acknowledged that as a group we do have some legitimate issues with the Iskcon leadership that are yet to be resolved (i.e. our Guru Maharaja being pushed out of Iskcon due to the GBC policy against Srila Sridhara Maharaja and the widespread minimization of Srila Sridhara Maharaja that occurred due to the offenses of the leadership). These issues and the misconception that accompanies them have caused our group to be the target of a lot of unwarranted criticism and has shown us a face of Iskcon that perhaps others don’t realize is there. Because of not seeing this aspect of Iskcon, it may be difficult for some to understand our perspective, having a more positive personal experience. When I first joined Guru Maharaja, I had difficulty with this myself, but after years of first-hand experience, my perception changed.
I appreciate that you brought up your feelings about this issue. Please feel free to question my own perspective. I welcome the opportunity to refine my understanding through dialogue.
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Vivek - July 12, 2006 6:01 pm
Dear Vivek,
Thank you for bringing up this important issue. I look forward to hearing the different perspectives on it. First of all, I wanted to say that I really liked Radhanatha Maharaja’s article and I agree with all of the points. Fanaticism among groups has really gotten to a critical level in the Gaudiya Saraswat lineage, and he gave excellent suggestions for overcoming this.
I wasn’t entirely clear, however, in which way the article related to the current discussions on Tattva-viveka. To me the article spoke more of people who criticize others simply based on their faith, i.e. if you don’t have faith in the same guru as me then you are wrong. Therefore I wondered whether you may be applying the principles of the lecture too broadly. Personally, I see the current discussion on Tattva-viveka as an exercise of sastra-yukti in relation to current Vaisnava controversies, not an attempt to criticize others in order to glorify ourselves. However, I’m actually not clear whether you objected to only certain posts or the discussion as a whole. Perhaps you could clarify.
Personally, I think it is valuable to discuss Vaisnava controversies in order to refine our understanding of the underlying philosophical issues and other issues related to the practice of devotion. However, there is always the danger of judgment and generalization. This can be an easy mistake to make, and hopefully such transgressions will be pointed out so that we can adjust our thinking.
I think the quotes of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur referred to fault-finding of a more personal sort--people's nature, intentions, and personal shortcomings--rather than discouraging the debating of policies and ideas. I base this on the fact that he critiqued and preached against so many misconceptions of other Gaudiya groups. Practically he preached against every other Gaudiya group.
Other than that, I think it should also be acknowledged that as a group we do have some legitimate issues with the Iskcon leadership that are yet to be resolved (i.e. our Guru Maharaja being pushed out of Iskcon due to the GBC policy against Srila Sridhara Maharaja and the widespread minimization of Srila Sridhara Maharaja that occurred due to the offenses of the leadership). These issues and the misconception that accompanies them have caused our group to be the target of a lot of unwarranted criticism and has shown us a face of Iskcon that perhaps others don’t realize is there. Because of not seeing this aspect of Iskcon, it may be difficult for some to understand our perspective, having a more positive personal experience. When I first joined Guru Maharaja, I had difficulty with this myself, but after years of first-hand experience, my perception changed.
I appreciate that you brought up your feelings about this issue. Please feel free to question my own perspective. I welcome the opportunity to refine my understanding through dialogue.
Ys,
Vrindaranya
Haribol,
No the philosphical understanding of these issues is essential but i was saying just as a check on people like me who are neophyte in devotional service and still struggling with sense gratification, it is good to go into these discussion without any ill intent against any person in ISKCON or anywhere, the philosophical points need to be clear.
I apologise if i created any confusion with my post. I am praying to all of your devotees to bless me so that i can get rid of the desire for sense gratification and engage in devotional service with more determination.
Vivek
Vrindaranya Dasi - July 12, 2006 11:54 pm
No need to apologize. I appreciate that you brought this up. It is an excellent reminder and Radhanatha Maharaja's article was superb. He was one of the first devotees who ever preached to me, and I offer my repeated dandavats at his lotus feet.
Ys,
Vrindaranya
P.S. Here are some photos from when he graced Audarya with his presence in 2002.
